5600HS-D Case Study [1]

[-7-]

Guys n Gals,

Actually, before I come out with this thread, had tried to browse through each and every threads that posted and discussed before...

As a result, found few of them and picked up some of the technical stuffs along the way. Read a very useful one contributed by TME. Not to mentioned those discussed somewhere before TME is so skillful n expert in flash photog.

Well, below is my doubt:

Situation-Dynax5, Film ISO100, 5600HS-D with Omni Bounce

Case 1 - 1/125 vs. 1/45
When the flash unit is attached onto Dynax5, shutter speed automatically reset to 1/125. But when it is off the body to do wireless, shutter speed drops down to 1/45.

Q1: Why it drops from 1/125 to 1/45? What is the purpose of auto-set & fix my shutter at 1/45? (is it for minimum hand-shake situation?)

Case 2 - Flash Output / Power Level
Q2: Intensity of the flash compensates or adjusts according to the A, S or E/V setting. It is obviously can be observed thru the distance covered on the flash screen panel. Does this apply to wireless setting where the flash is off the body? Such distance coverage info. cannot be seen once it is off the body, but just to make sure wherther it will memorised the coverage just before it is detached from the body?

Case 3 - Intentionally Over Expose
Q3: Normally, without 5600HS unit, negatives exposure setting is always set at +0.5 Realised that, with 5600 sitting on the hot shoe, shutter is fixed and what it does is shorten the firing distance (means increase its output?). With this auto adjustment, will it turn out the same result as without flash but slower shutter speed (with +0.5) ? In view of the above observation, I tried another way: I re-rate the ISO from 100 to 160 (though not exactly +0.5), E/V:0.0 as I think this way is very similar to without flash condition concept. [w/o flash, environtment lighting is fixed - assumed. so, with +0.5 setting, I get exactly the over expose I want. so, by re-rate the ISO, the flash power will not be affected. In other words, I've indirectly fixed the flash output as default environtment lighting --->fixed parameter). So, what will turn out with E/V Setting vs. ISO re-rate?

I really wish to have some feedbacks from those who have been using 5600HS along well...

Des,
your box is full... cannot reach you when i need this flash info.

cheers...

[sulhan]

Originally Posted by -7- Guys n Gals, Actually, before I come out with this thread, had tried to browse through each and every threads that posted and discussed before... As a result, found few of them and picked up some of the technical stuffs along the way. Read a very useful one contributed by TME. Not to mentioned those discussed somewhere before TME is so skillful n expert in flash photog. Well, below is my doubt: Situation-Dynax5, Film ISO100, 5600HS-D with Omni Bounce Case 1 - 1/125 vs. 1/45 When the flash unit is attached onto Dynax5, shutter speed automatically reset to 1/125. But when it is off the body to do wireless, shutter speed drops down to 1/45. Q1: Why it drops from 1/125 to 1/45? What is the purpose of auto-set & fix my shutter at 1/45? (is it for minimum hand-shake situation?) Case 2 - Flash Output / Power Level Q2: Intensity of the flash compensates or adjusts according to the A, S or E/V setting. It is obviously can be observed thru the distance covered on the flash screen panel. Does this apply to wireless setting where the flash is off the body? Such distance coverage info. cannot be seen once it is off the body, but just to make sure wherther it will memorised the coverage just before it is detached from the body? Case 3 - Intentionally Over Expose Q3: Normally, without 5600HS unit, negatives exposure setting is always set at +0.5 Realised that, with 5600 sitting on the hot shoe, shutter is fixed and what it does is shorten the firing distance (means increase its output?). With this auto adjustment, will it turn out the same result as without flash but slower shutter speed (with +0.5) ? In view of the above observation, I tried another way: I re-rate the ISO from 100 to 160 (though not exactly +0.5), E/V:0.0 as I think this way is very similar to without flash condition concept. [w/o flash, environtment lighting is fixed - assumed. so, with +0.5 setting, I get exactly the over expose I want. so, by re-rate the ISO, the flash power will not be affected. In other words, I've indirectly fixed the flash output as default environtment lighting --->fixed parameter). So, what will turn out with E/V Setting vs. ISO re-rate? I really wish to have some feedbacks from those who have been using 5600HS along well... Des, your box is full... cannot reach you when i need this flash info. cheers...

The sync speed drops to a lower default value probably considering the off-camera distance for camera flash signal to reach flash in wireless......affected by distance.....and also indirect bounce type of light condition.

Rgds,
sulhan

[deslim27]

Originally Posted by -7- Case 1 - 1/125 vs. 1/45 When the flash unit is attached onto Dynax5, shutter speed automatically reset to 1/125. But when it is off the body to do wireless, shutter speed drops down to 1/45. Q1: Why it drops from 1/125 to 1/45? What is the purpose of auto-set & fix my shutter at 1/45? (is it for minimum hand-shake situation?)

Dynax 5, wireless sync speed is 1/45.. Use High Speed Sync (HSS) to go beyond, but the output power will reduce significantly, check your manual for HSS limitation.

Originally Posted by -7- Case 2 - Flash Output / Power Level Q2: Intensity of the flash compensates or adjusts according to the A, S or E/V setting. It is obviously can be observed thru the distance covered on the flash screen panel. Does this apply to wireless setting where the flash is off the body? Such distance coverage info. cannot be seen once it is off the body, but just to make sure wherther it will memorised the coverage just before it is detached from the body?

Nope, the camera doesn't even know how far your remote unit distance to subject, so distance indication doesn't make sense. Generally, I've no problem covering a normal room size.. and don't get too close to subject also, I think the minimum distance is about 1m.

Originally Posted by -7- Case 3 - Intentionally Over Expose Q3: Normally, without 5600HS unit, negatives exposure setting is always set at +0.5 Realised that, with 5600 sitting on the hot shoe, shutter is fixed and what it does is shorten the firing distance (means increase its output?). With this auto adjustment, will it turn out the same result as without flash but slower shutter speed (with +0.5) ? In view of the above observation, I tried another way: I re-rate the ISO from 100 to 160 (though not exactly +0.5), E/V:0.0 as I think this way is very similar to without flash condition concept. [w/o flash, environtment lighting is fixed - assumed. so, with +0.5 setting, I get exactly the over expose I want. so, by re-rate the ISO, the flash power will not be affected. In other words, I've indirectly fixed the flash output as default environtment lighting --->fixed parameter). So, what will turn out with E/V Setting vs. ISO re-rate?

Very confused here .. See if anyone can help

Anyway, to increase EV comp thru ISO setting, you should be decrease the ISO, not increase..

[UY79]

Originally Posted by deslim27 Nope, the camera doesn't even know how far your remote unit distance to subject, so distance indication doesn't make sense. Generally, I've no problem covering a normal room size.. and don't get too close to subject also, I think the minimum distance is about 1m.

Just to add on. The way wireless TTL works is similar to on-camera TTL. Any changes to exposure parameters, the flash will not know. It just waits for the camera signal for when to burst and when it needs to stop.

Originally Posted by deslim27 Very confused here .. See if anyone can help Anyway, to increase EV comp thru ISO setting, you should be decrease the ISO, not increase..

Same as Desmond, I'm confused to what you are trying put across. Flash power does vary with different ISO, aperture and shutter parameters. It's all in the exposure equation.

Cheers!

[deslim27]

Originally Posted by UY79 Just to add on. The way wireless TTL works is similar to on-camera TTL. Any changes to exposure parameters, the flash will not know. It just waits for the camera signal for when to burst and when it needs to stop.

Yeah.. in a nutshell, Minolta wireless flash is very smart.. just remember to put in batteries.. j/k..

Just remember to test the 'connectivity' between the remote unit and your body, line-of-sight is not required in close up area as the control signal can bounce off the ceiling and walls.

[UY79]

Originally Posted by deslim27 Yeah.. in a nutshell, Minolta wireless flash is very smart.. just remember to put in batteries.. j/k.. Just remember to test the 'connectivity' between the remote unit and your body, line-of-sight is not required in close up area as the control signal can bounce off the ceiling and walls.

Oh, my 5400 does not work well in outdoor conditions. Maybe ambient lighting too bright for the flash to pick up the control signal.

I don't know if 5600 would be any better. Nikon's SB800 seems more sensitive in that situation.

Cheers!

[deslim27]

Originally Posted by UY79 Oh, my 5400 does not work well in outdoor conditions. Maybe ambient lighting too bright for the flash to pick up the control signal. I don't know if 5600 would be any better. Nikon's SB800 seems more sensitive in that situation. Cheers!

Hmm.. I've used it outdoor under daylight condition at 10+ meter away (estimated) once or twice.. no problem. Did you turn the receiver to face the camera? It need line-of-sight and properly make sure the receiver sensor not shined directly by the sunlight.

[grado]

Does it need line of sight to work? I thought it is wireless radio frequency, even if not facing also can work?

[UY79]

Originally Posted by deslim27 Hmm.. I've used it outdoor under daylight condition at 10+ meter away (estimated) once or twice.. no problem. Did you turn the receiver to face the camera? It need line-of-sight and properly make sure the receiver sensor not shined directly by the sunlight.

I'll try it again. Does the 5600 support off camera slave mode? One that will work with any camera as long as its flash goes off?

Originally Posted by grado Does it need line of sight to work? I thought it is wireless radio frequency, even if not facing also can work?

The camera body uses bursts of flash from the built in flash to send encoded signals to the off camera flashes.

Cheers!

[deslim27]

Originally Posted by grado Does it need line of sight to work? I thought it is wireless radio frequency, even if not facing also can work?

I wish it uses radio frequency, but then it will gets more complicated and costly. KM wireless uses flash pulses to communicate, in close area, the signal will still work without line of sight as the light will bounce off the walls. But at outdoor, the stray light will go 'holland' .

[deslim27]

Originally Posted by UY79 I'll try it again. Does the 5600 support off camera slave mode? One that will work with any camera as long as its flash goes off?

Nope it doesn't, will need additional accessories. Does 5400 works in slave mode?

[UY79]

Originally Posted by deslim27 Nope it doesn't, will need additional accessories. Does 5400 works in slave mode?

Nope. Kinda difficult when you got friends using Canon and Nikon out for a shoot and each one has to set up their own off camera flashes.

The only flash that I know of that supports slave mode is the SB800. Other flashes needs a slave adapter. I'm not sure if there's one for Minolta flashes. Got to go search abit.

Cheers!

[deslim27]

Originally Posted by UY79 Nope. Kinda difficult when you got friends using Canon and Nikon out for a shoot and each one has to set up their own off camera flashes.

hehe.. mix with Minolta friends lor..

Anyway, I have 2 5600HS unit (and 1 3600HS sold previously), enough fire power liao..

[grado]

Originally Posted by deslim27 I wish it uses radio frequency, but then it will gets more complicated and costly. KM wireless uses flash pulses to communicate, in close area, the signal will still work without line of sight as the light will bounce off the walls. But at outdoor, the stray light will go 'holland' .

Opps... Ok, thanks for the correction!

[Zerstorer]

The nikon SB26, SB80DX and SB800 all have a slave flash function. The main advantage of nikon/metz flashes over the canon/minolta ones are their inbuilt autoflash function which allows them to be used easily with any camera as long as you can get them to sync.

To use a slave adaptor with a minolta flash, you will first need a minolta shoe->hotshoe adaptor(OS1100?) or a slave adaptor that has a minolta hotshoe or has a pc-sync output. But even then you would be limited to manual flash functions.

[Zerstorer]

The correct adaptor should be a FS1200(not OS1100).

[Zerstorer]

Originally Posted by -7- Case 3 - Intentionally Over Expose Q3: Normally, without 5600HS unit, negatives exposure setting is always set at +0.5 Realised that, with 5600 sitting on the hot shoe, shutter is fixed and what it does is shorten the firing distance (means increase its output?). With this auto adjustment, will it turn out the same result as without flash but slower shutter speed (with +0.5) ? In view of the above observation, I tried another way: I re-rate the ISO from 100 to 160 (though not exactly +0.5), E/V:0.0 as I think this way is very similar to without flash condition concept. [w/o flash, environtment lighting is fixed - assumed. so, with +0.5 setting, I get exactly the over expose I want. so, by re-rate the ISO, the flash power will not be affected. In other words, I've indirectly fixed the flash output as default environtment lighting --->fixed parameter). So, what will turn out with E/V Setting vs. ISO re-rate?

Firstly, as what Deslim as pointed out, re-rating the ISO to 160 instead of 100 will cause underexposure instead of what u intended.

Next you need to realize that flash photography consists of 2 exposures, the flash exposure and the ambient exposure. Which exposure do you want the +0.5EV to be added to? Flash or ambient? This will determine whether the flashlit foreground is brighter or the ambient background is brighter.

If you just add +0.5EV in a low light condition normally the flash output would be increased as the shutter speed is fixed by the camera and hence ambient exposure is fixed. To get +0.5EV to work on the background instead of the flash, you would need set the shutter speed half a stop slower.

[-7-]

Hi all,
Sorry for the confusion made... pls. see correction below:
1. ISO re-rate 100 ---> 160 [wrong version ]
ISO re-rate 100 ---> 64 or 50 [correct + intended version]

Originally Posted by Zerstorer Next you need to realize that flash photography consists of 2 exposures, the flash exposure and the ambient exposure. Which exposure do you want the +0.5EV to be added to? Flash or ambient? This will determine whether the flashlit foreground is brighter or the ambient background is brighter.

What I want is the ambient over expose. In that case, ISO re-rate makes more sense than +0.5 E/V? If like what you mentioned, set the shutter half slower, which means all these will have to be in M mode. One last point, my Dyn5 doesn't have the Flash Compensation

[Zerstorer]

Originally Posted by -7- What I want is the ambient over expose. In that case, ISO re-rate makes more sense than +0.5 E/V? If like what you mentioned, set the shutter half slower, which means all these will have to be in M mode. One last point, my Dyn5 doesn't have the Flash Compensation

You need to check out on this. ISO re-rate will not help the ambient exposure if the shutter speed remains locked at the default 1/f flash sync value(low light conditions). I'm not familiar with the workings of your Dynax5 so I guess you have to work that out yourself.

In essence, if you want to increase ambient exposure, make sure the shutter speed is lower than what the camera selects. Going into manual mode works for all cameras and gives you the fullest control. Generally I shoot in manual mode when flash is the primary source of light, just need to watch ur meter.

[Drudkh]

Pardon me for the interruption guys, I would like to know what do you guys mean by "ISO re-rate"? Thanks.