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Thread: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt
    *cough*

    @ daredevil123 and rhino123

    At no point in this entire thread have I actually recommended the NX system for the TS. Please do not jump to conclusions.

    My point is consider mirrorless options. That is all.
    I don't know if you're blind or not. In the end of most of your legnthy explanations, you compare everything to the NX system. This comes across to me (and perhaps others) as not knowing enough of other brands and systems to even describe them other than "mirrorless", no "roadmap", "huge lenses" etc.

    Even for social events i lug around my DSLR with a few lenses and probably one or two flashlights.

    We get it that you love your NX a lot. But instead of becoming a fanatic, be more open to other school of thoughts before slamming an entire genre of camera systems

  2. #42

    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    I don't know if you're blind or not. In the end of most of your legnthy explanations, you compare everything to the NX system. This comes across to me (and perhaps others) as not knowing enough of other brands and systems to even describe them other than "mirrorless", no "roadmap", "huge lenses" etc.

    Even for social events i lug around my DSLR with a few lenses and probably one or two flashlights.

    We get it that you love your NX a lot. But instead of becoming a fanatic, be more open to other school of thoughts before slamming an entire genre of camera systems
    As I said before. Nowhere in this thread do I focus on the NX. Nowhere do I slam a genre of camera. Not sure where you get these make believe ideas from.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt
    Consider mirrorless options:

    Pros:
    DSLR (APS-C or micro 4/3rds sensor) quality
    Smaller and less obtrusive cameras (lower weight and lower bulk especially with very nice pancake primes available)
    The future of digital photography- DSLRs will get outdated soon.

    Common misconceptions:
    Slow contrast detect AF speeds. Not true. AF speeds are as fast as most entry level DSLRs.
    Insufficient lens options. Not true. Lens options are more than sufficient with use of adapters. Native lens options are also always improving.
    Poor IQ - Not true. IQ is just fine for everyone except the crazy pixel peepers.

    Cons:
    Electronic viewfinder may not be good enough for shooting extreme sports.
    Some accessories such as external flash etc. may not be available (yet!).

    @ Rashkae
    The "What DSLR camera to buy?" needs updating to include the mirrorless options available. Samsung (the NX system) is not even mentioned. . Also change title to "What DSLR or mirrorless camera to buy?"
    Haha mirrorless fanboy strikes again!!

  4. #44

    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    Lets consider what the TS has asked for:

    The budget: $3000 is quite generous. Can easily buy a semi professional model like the 7D and do everything that is needed. But the 7D is huge. We don't want the TS to get tired of carrying his camera around.

    Most of the TS's needs relate to social events.

    The best type of camera for social events is the mirrorless category. Since they are small, unobtrusive, and hence more likely to be used.

    The A55 is a good choice and superior in some ways to many other mirrorless options, but why restrict the TS to this model only? Why not bring in the Olympus EPL-2, new Panasonic G-3, Samsung NX11? The disadvantages of these proper mirrorless cameras are only very few, not so much a hobbyist would care, and also the makers produce a good range of compact lenses to go with it.

    Sony's compact lens solutions are supposed to pair with the NEX mount, not the Alpha mount. And they have failed to produce a proper lens road map to go with the NEX mount - so these days I tend to not recommend Sony SLT (alpha mount) anymore since even though the bodies are small - the lenses are not so. Also the company suffered a huge loss last quarter so there may be cutbacks.

    Rashkae's thread does not have the word "mirrorless" inside it anywhere. A newbie will not equate mirrorless image quality to DSLR image quality. This is bad since most newbies buy DSLRs because they want better image quality.

    No one here has yet told the TS that wedding photography is really really REALLY hard. It requires specialized skill and equipment and he should really consider getting a professional to do this. I hope the TS plans to use his camera only as a secondary source of photos. No camera recommendation we make here will work unless the TS is a super fast learner and has uncanny organizing skills.

    I would not recommend the NX10 for the TS since unfortunately the camera in-built jpeg engine is not very good. If you shoot RAW and post process it is as good as an entry level DSLR. But this is a hassle. Not good for beginners. But I would say that the NX10+30mm/F2 kit is by far the best value street-shooting package available for love or for money right now. The camera is tough with great build quality, has great battery life and the kit lens is superb. No other solution compares. But this is my very personal opinion, and I don't want to debate on it.




    Bro, i learnt a lot just by staring at all the words here ... Thanks ..

  5. #45
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    Nowhere do I slam a genre of camera. Not sure where you get these make believe ideas from.
    How about from this,

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    Consider mirrorless options:

    Pros:
    DSLR (APS-C or micro 4/3rds sensor) quality
    Smaller and less obtrusive cameras (lower weight and lower bulk especially with very nice pancake primes available)
    The future of digital photography- DSLRs will get outdated soon.

    Isn't that just slamming on this genre of camera - DSLR? And it give me the idea that what we are using are outdated, old man stuff?

    And calling Singaporean photographers lagging behind technology... well, that is a punch in the face for many Clubsnapper. We might not be as hip as you... but we are NOT that behind time. And many of us do know about mirrorless format.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    But I would say that the NX10+30mm/F2 kit is by far the best value street-shooting package available for love or for money right now. The camera is tough with great build quality, has great battery life and the kit lens is superb. No other solution compares.
    Oh... and this BOLD statement really bug me... if Shahmatt really have any reference or proof to back up this statement, by all means shared it with us and enlighten all of us (who are lagging behind technology). If not it is just misleading TS into thinking this is actually true. Although he put something like, "This is a very personal opinion." but it really is no way unmisleading.

    What NX10 and whatever lens could do... many different DSLR, SLT and mirrorless cam can do too, and not too shabbily...

    Back to TS's original question... who wanted to get a DSLR for wedding, capturing children actions, etc... my advise is still back to 60D and A55... both are quick machines (A55 is insanely fast), both have vari-LCD and both capture great video (I think 60D can capture 30fps at 1080p - full HD!)
    Last edited by rhino123; 31st May 2011 at 05:31 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    How about from this,



    Isn't that just slamming on this genre of camera - DSLR? And it give me the idea that what we are using are outdated, old man stuff?

    And calling Singaporean photographer behind technology... well, that is a punch in the face for many Clubsnapper. We might not be as hip as you... but we are NOT that behind time. And many of us do know about mirrorless format.
    Ok just realized that this doesn't sound very good. I agree. I apologize. Did not mean to slam the DSLR genre.

    I will caveat my original statement by saying that given current trends, the entry level DSLR is under threat from mirrorless models and in the future, mirrorless designs may be adopted for professional use through the incorporation of FF and MF sensors.

    I think it is a misconception that mirrorless means compact design. I think mirrorless represents the simplification of camera design and improvement of camera efficiency by removing the mirror (or prism). Of course I still continue to think that optical viewfinders will have a market, but it may get diminished as users prefer the greater info from EVF. Or we might also see options like the Fuji X100 with a dual optical and electronic VF. Who knows? the future is exciting.
    Last edited by Shahmatt; 31st May 2011 at 05:26 PM.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  7. #47
    Senior Member luckyorange's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    hi, spree popcorn for you? ^^
    Lousy de My Flickr

  8. #48
    Member crystal1993's Avatar
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    Lollol. Ya lah mirrorless will make dslr obsolete! Everyone please sell your dslrs and buy mirrorless as it's so much better than dslr but i wonder why few people bought it.

    Maybe majority of the photographers are too dumb in technology.

  9. #49
    Senior Member luckyorange's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by crystal1993 View Post
    Lollol. Ya lah mirrorless will make dslr obsolete! Everyone please sell your dslrs and buy mirrorless as it's so much better than dslr but i wonder why few people bought it.

    Maybe majority of the photographers are too dumb in technology.

    im at cash converter now ^^
    Lousy de My Flickr

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyorange
    hi, spree popcorn for you? ^^
    Both sweet and salted please!!

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyorange

    im at cash converter now ^^
    Good good! Go go sell sell and go over to mirrorless cams because dslrs will be obsolete!

  12. #52

    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post

    Oh... and this BOLD statement really bug me... if Shahmatt really have any reference or proof to back up this statement, by all means shared it with us and enlighten all of us (who are lagging behind technology). If not it is just misleading TS into thinking this is actually true. Although he put something like, "This is a very personal opinion." but it really is no way unmisleading.

    What NX10 and whatever lens could do... many different DSLR, SLT and mirrorless cam can do too, and not too shabbily...
    You have quoted out of context and have thus mislead everyone else here. I would advise you to stop now.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  13. #53
    Senior Member luckyorange's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by crystal1993 View Post
    Good good! Go go sell sell and go over to mirrorless cams because dslrs will be obsolete!
    im heading now to courts later
    Lousy de My Flickr

  14. #54
    Senior Member luckyorange's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by spree86 View Post
    Both sweet and salted please!!
    alright, any drinks for u? coke?
    Lousy de My Flickr

  15. #55

    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader




    that aside, may i highlight to TS that the PC Show (i dont know where though) is coming up next week, you could feel free to molest the cameras there to make a more informed choice =]
    naheuy|A7|A77
    naheuy photography

  16. #56
    Senior Member luckyorange's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by naheuy View Post



    that aside, may i highlight to TS that the PC Show (i dont know where though) is coming up next week, you could feel free to molest the cameras there to make a more informed choice =]
    provided TS must fight all the way in =D
    Lousy de My Flickr

  17. #57
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    Ok just realized that this doesn't sound very good. I agree. I apologize. Did not mean to slam the DSLR genre.

    I will caveat my original statement by saying that given current trends, the entry level DSLR is under threat from mirrorless models and in the future, mirrorless designs may be adopted for professional use through the incorporation of FF and MF sensors.

    I think it is a misconception that mirrorless means compact design. I think mirrorless represents the simplification of camera design and improvement of camera efficiency by removing the mirror (or prism). Of course I still continue to think that optical viewfinders will have a market, but it may get diminished as users prefer the greater info from EVF. Or we might also see options like the Fuji X100 with a dual optical and electronic VF. Who knows? the future is exciting.
    I don't know what trends you are observing, but from what I see, the mirrorless cameras with EVFs are at risk of being confined to a very small niche market in the future. Sales of DSLRs (with the 'inefficient' mirror and prism design) far outstrip those of mirrorless cameras like the NX series.
    The consumers have spoken.
    Exploring! :)

  18. #58
    Moderator rhino123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    You have quoted out of context and have thus mislead everyone else here. I would advise you to stop now.
    Tell me where have I quote out of context? Did you not write that statement? Of course, I understand that you wrote that you would not recommend TS the NX10 for whatever reasons. But do I have to remind you that this forum is not open only to TS? There are other newbies out there that might be interested in street photography and happen to chance in this thread... wouldn't that means misleading them into thinking that NX10 is the best solution now, when all of us know it is not true, because there are other system out there that could do what NX10 did.

    No doubt NX10 is a good system, but so are other system. So where in the world have I quote out of context and mislead everyone else here?

  19. #59
    Senior Member bonrya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyorange

    provided TS must fight all the way in =D
    And all the mirrorless fanboys trying to divert you away to their booth..
    My Flickr
    ~Neko baka

  20. #60

    Default Re: Recommend DSLR for PnS/Super-Zoom upgrader

    Quote Originally Posted by rhino123 View Post
    Tell me where have I quote out of context? Did you not write that statement? Of course, I understand that you wrote that you would not recommend TS the NX10 for whatever reasons. But do I have to remind you that this forum is not open only to TS? There are other newbies out there that might be interested in street photography and happen to chance in this thread... wouldn't that means misleading them into thinking that NX10 is the best solution now, when all of us know it is not true, because there are other system out there that could do what NX10 did.

    No doubt NX10 is a good system, but so are other system. So where in the world have I quote out of context and mislead everyone else here?
    Also. You tend to nag. :-\
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

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