Comparing Modes - Dimage A1 - Tiff vs JPG

[sulhan]

Hiee A1 users.....

From today's outing, and photos.....it was found that the greens seems to be livelier and punchy in the TIF images ...here is two images taken in series (one after another) setting at Color +3.

The images is the resized to 600 width into web jpeg in Adobe Photoshop.....
Quality at 67% to give a small manageble size....





Punchier green and orange.....my opinion...

Regards,
Sulhan

[Drudkh]

Great Discovery Sulhan! Are both using the same settings? Exif info for both pics are missing. The tiff converted pic is indeed richer in colour tone. Looks like I'll do some kind of experiment as well. But the down-side of tiff is too huge in filesize and takes longer to write to CF.

[sulhan]

Hieee..

The EXIF info for both:
Shutter speed: 1/10
Aperture : f2.8
ISO: 200
Color Mode: RGB
Colour Space: sRGB
Resolution: 72 DPI - X & Y
Brightness Value : 2/10
Exposure Program Normal
Metering Mode: Pattern


Both are equivalent....

rgds,
Sulhan

[UY79]

Hi,

This topic of TIFF vs JPEG vs RAW has been discussed to bits in other forums. First you need to know what JPEG is and what are its characteristics.

JPEG loses colour accuracy in its compression process. It also loses detail or quality of image due to compression as it tries to replaces the actual image data by a more or less closely matched block. This is known as JPEG artifacts and it gets much prevalent when compression gets higher.

Cheers!

[tbteng]

I used to shoot in JPEG and almost 6 months ago, I started to shoot RAW instead after which I stored all the pictures in TIFF format at home in my PC.
Colours are really much better...

[Drudkh]

Originally Posted by tbteng I used to shoot in JPEG and almost 6 months ago, I started to shoot RAW instead after which I stored all the pictures in TIFF format at home in my PC. Colours are really much better...

but in raw files, A1 won't be able to zoom during playback right?

[TME]

I really can't tell the difference..... altho' I will shoot in RAW just to prevent in-camera sharpening which may not be always be the best...

[sulhan]

Originally Posted by UY79 Hi, This topic of TIFF vs JPEG vs RAW has been discussed to bits in other forums. First you need to know what JPEG is and what are its characteristics. JPEG loses colour accuracy in its compression process. It also loses detail or quality of image due to compression as it tries to replaces the actual image data by a more or less closely matched block. This is known as JPEG artifacts and it gets much prevalent when compression gets higher. Cheers!

Hi UY79....

Yup...this topic has been discussed many many times...well..however, different company applies different algorithm and also different system hardware .....the post was actaully to share with the A1 users...who would like to get a richer green....while downsizing for web in a PS workflow....

If you download and save the two pic...and open in PS...you will see what i mean......disfferent software have different response to the files being opened...and apparently...some colors from images taken with the A1 seem have a different reponse for different color range......so for greeneries....this seem to be a better color reproduction...

JPEG is a lossy compression....more apparent JPEG artifacts....would be present due to Bayer Pattern filtering processes......Thats why RAW is preferred to avoid such artifacts....



rgds,
sulhan

[UY79]

Originally Posted by sulhan Hi UY79.... Yup...this topic has been discussed many many times...well..however, different company applies different algorithm and also different system hardware .....the post was actaully to share with the A1 users...who would like to get a richer green....while downsizing for web in a PS workflow.... If you download and save the two pic...and open in PS...you will see what i mean......disfferent software have different response to the files being opened...and apparently...some colors from images taken with the A1 seem have a different reponse for different color range......so for greeneries....this seem to be a better color reproduction... JPEG is a lossy compression....more apparent JPEG artifacts....would be present due to Bayer Pattern filtering processes......Thats why RAW is preferred to avoid such artifacts.... rgds, sulhan

The reason why you need PS to see the difference in the photos because your JPG sample uses sRGB colourspace and your TIFF sample uses Adobe RGB colourspace. Most browsers do not support Adobe colourspace and therefore images in Adobe RGB colourspace do not look correct in them.

Adobe RGB colourspace also has a wider gamut than sRGB. It handles green and cyan better than sRGB. That's why the greens in the TIFF sample is better when viewed in a Adobe RGB colourspace environment.

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_spaces.htm

Besides being spared from JPEG artifects, Minolta's RAW is also spared of sharpening artifects, unlike Canon's RAW. I also believe RAW has 12 bit colour information. It's 4 bits more than JPEG and TIFF.

Cheers!

[tbteng]

Originally Posted by Drudkh but in raw files, A1 won't be able to zoom during playback right?

That's true....So I normally trigger 2 shots to be sure.

[Drudkh]

Originally Posted by UY79 The reason why you need PS to see the difference in the photos because your JPG sample uses sRGB colourspace and your TIFF sample uses Adobe RGB colourspace. Most browsers do not support Adobe colourspace and therefore images in Adobe RGB colourspace do not look correct in them. Adobe RGB colourspace also has a wider gamut than sRGB. It handles green and cyan better than sRGB. That's why the greens in the TIFF sample is better when viewed in a Adobe RGB colourspace environment. http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_spaces.htm Besides being spared from JPEG artifects, Minolta's RAW is also spared of sharpening artifects, unlike Canon's RAW. I also believe RAW has 12 bit colour information. It's 4 bits more than JPEG and TIFF. Cheers!

Interesting, but is it the same if in the setup I choose Adobe RGB and jpeg compression? Will it produce the same colour as TIFF other than having jpeg artifacts?

[Drudkh]

Originally Posted by tbteng That's true....So I normally trigger 2 shots to be sure.

I'm a bit more kiasu than you.

[Zerstorer]

Originally Posted by Drudkh Interesting, but is it the same if in the setup I choose Adobe RGB and jpeg compression? Will it produce the same colour as TIFF other than having jpeg artifacts?

Besides colour space, there is also colour bit depth to consider. Most RAW formats support conversion to 16bit tiff as well. You may want to check if your camera supports it. RAW generally has a 14-16bit colour depth, more than what a jpeg(8bit) can represent.

Also, tiff exists both as 8bit or in 16bit. An 8bit tiff wouldn't offer much over a max quality jpeg if u discount the minor compression.

In any case, the examples posted by sulhan are in different colourspaces. It would be better if both were mapped to the same colourspace for a proper comparison to avoid conversion losses.

[UY79]

Originally Posted by Drudkh Interesting, but is it the same if in the setup I choose Adobe RGB and jpeg compression? Will it produce the same colour as TIFF other than having jpeg artifacts?

Colourspace goes for TIFF as well. If you have TIFF in sRGB colourspace, the greens and cyans will not look better than those in a JPG with Adobe RGB colourspace.

Cheers!

[Drudkh]

Thanks Zerstorer & UY79. Although I know what you guys are trying to explain to me, but I guess I've to do some experiments myself so as to be convinced.