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Thread: Beginner to dslr

  1. #61
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae
    Why is it... That any recent thread that has a newbie asking what DSLR to get turns into a pro-mirrorless campaign?

    Then might as well just start your own thread where people can discuss this instead of flooding other people's threads with the praises of unproven systems, lenses that are "heralded" because they were slightly better in one aspect than cheap kit lenses, and supposedly have "nice bokeh" when they don't... Then when newbies start a "what dslr to get" thread you can just say "You can also consider mirrorless" and link them to your thread instead of spamming threads and turning everything into a "mirrorless vs. dslr" war.
    Well said. As for why, it is just pribably strong personal beliefs and emotion to the extent of a disconnect from reality.

  2. #62
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    LoL. It appears as though you argue just for argument's sake.

    I have already explained why EVFs will make manufacturing simpler - and therefore cheaper.

    I have also explained why the EVF will present advantages over conventional OVFs. These specific problems you talk about for sunrises and sunsets etc. are not a big concern. You should not be viewing the sun directly through OVF anyway - with the EVF at least you can moderate the glare.

    Obviously there are a few of us out there who like to use film. I have even come across pin-hole cameras. Forensics are a specialist application. Tape cassettes are still manufactured in Africa and type-writers are still made in places in the USA. My arguments are for mainstream usage, not for these specialized preferences. I am sorry but your points are just not valid.
    It's fine to love a new-fangled technology and all, but to be the doomsayer of an existing (and popular) technology by spouting premature theories about its demise....
    Exploring! :)

  3. #63

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by fringster0 View Post
    I know this is a stupid question but I feel like asking. How to u guys know wat dslr to go for at the beginning be it Canon, Sony, Nikon....? Is it the kind of system, the lenses, interest, feeling....?
    there is no way to know. Too many things to consider. By the time you have gone through all the possible questions and things to consider, dslr may become obsolete. My personal experience is based on a conclusion that is neither technical nor cost but what my best friend is using.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

  4. #64

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Why is it... That any recent thread that has a newbie asking what DSLR to get turns into a pro-mirrorless campaign?

    Then might as well just start your own thread where people can discuss this instead of flooding other people's threads with the praises of unproven systems, lenses that are "heralded" because they were slightly better in one aspect than cheap kit lenses, and supposedly have "nice bokeh" when they don't... Then when newbies start a "what dslr to get" thread you can just say "You can also consider mirrorless" and link them to your thread instead of spamming threads and turning everything into a "mirrorless vs. dslr" war.
    +1 to this.
    There seems to be some sort of 'crusade' to tout 'mirrorless' over all others, running for many posts.
    I don't have a problem with mirrorless as another way to get images, in fact I'm waiting to see what Pentax has to offer with their rumored 2 MILC systems, but the incessant drumming in the many newbie threads of late is a bit OTT.
    There is no best system.
    Batt consumption; form factor (too small); EVF refresh rate; EVF brightness esp. wrt real ambiance; are all factors that have not been ironed out now. Yes, may be in the near future, but not at this very moment. Overlay of info in EVF, is not even an advantage (information overload and effect on response time in photo taking).
    Welcome alternative camera, sure.
    Replacement and death knell to DSLR, not atm.


    As mentioned by others, film is just another medium to capture images. Photography did not make the brush and paint irrelevant. Same for film and digital. Different mediums.
    Last edited by pinholecam; 12th May 2011 at 02:24 PM.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Why is it... That any recent thread that has a newbie asking what DSLR to get turns into a pro-mirrorless campaign?

    Then might as well just start your own thread where people can discuss this instead of flooding other people's threads with the praises of unproven systems, lenses that are "heralded" because they were slightly better in one aspect than cheap kit lenses, and supposedly have "nice bokeh" when they don't... Then when newbies start a "what dslr to get" thread you can just say "You can also consider mirrorless" and link them to your thread instead of spamming threads and turning everything into a "mirrorless vs. dslr" war.
    I did not mean for this thread to become a mirrorless vs DSLR war and I do not want to promote mirrorless cameras either. For the longest time I pondered on DSLRs and which one to upgrade to. If not for the Panasonic announcement of m43 models way back in 2009 I may right now be the owner of a Pentax K200D or K7.

    Nowadays DSLRs are all overkill for the beginner anyway. There are too many features when the beginner only wants to shoot Auto mode anyway. And also they are far too heavy (see here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/threa...77#post7182677).

    Most beginners I know who invest in DSLRs lose interest soon enough because it is just inconvenient to carry these cameras around. I think we all want to avoid this. Smaller and more convenient is better for a beginner to stay interested.

    The point is that mirrorless cameras exist and newbies should find out about them before investing in a traditional DSLR system. Also they are good enough for beginners as they have all the essential features. The lens selection is good enough for newbie also. Even in this thread there are many misconceptions such as slow EVF, even bringing up medium format - the TS was only asking a beginner question mind you!
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  6. #66
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt

    I did not mean for this thread to become a mirrorless vs DSLR war and I do not want to promote mirrorless cameras either. For the longest time I pondered on DSLRs and which one to upgrade to. If not for the Panasonic announcement of m43 models way back in 2009 I may right now be the owner of a Pentax K200D or K7.

    Nowadays DSLRs are all overkill for the beginner anyway. There are too many features when the beginner only wants to shoot Auto mode anyway. And also they are far too heavy (see here: http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/threa...77#post7182677).

    Most beginners I know who invest in DSLRs lose interest soon enough because it is just inconvenient to carry these cameras around. I think we all want to avoid this. Smaller and more convenient is better for a beginner to stay interested.

    The point is that mirrorless cameras exist and newbies should find out about them before investing in a traditional DSLR system. Also they are good enough for beginners as they have all the essential features. The lens selection is good enough for newbie also. Even in this thread there are many misconceptions such as slow EVF, even bringing up medium format - the TS was only asking a beginner question mind you!
    I faintly remember someone saying things in the lines of mirrorless will take over all Dslr, an professionals will love it.

    Now it is about the beginners.

    Heh... Funny how the weather changes so fast nowadays.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 12th May 2011 at 02:29 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I faintly remember someone saying things in the lines of mirrorless will take over all Dslr, an professionals will love it.

    Now it is about the beginners.

    Heh... Funny how the weather changes so fast nowadays.
    Yes, and how so many pros are apparently "thirsty" for portrait lenses that are rumored to be out in 2012... I don't know a single pro who will wait for a certain lens and in the meantime use a system that does not fulfill his needs...
    Alpha

  8. #68

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by coolthought View Post
    there is no way to know. Too many things to consider. By the time you have gone through all the possible questions and things to consider, dslr may become obsolete. My personal experience is based on a conclusion that is neither technical nor cost but what my best friend is using.
    Quote Originally Posted by fringster0 View Post
    I know this is a stupid question but I feel like asking. How to u guys know wat dslr to go for at the beginning be it Canon, Sony, Nikon....? Is it the kind of system, the lenses, interest, feeling....?
    but once we started with a brand, most will probably stick to it, like in a marriage. And in the case of "divorce" or change of system, it will be messy as you may have to get rid of many things. (or unless one is rich)

    So... consider carefully before "putting your signature above the line and said I do"
    Last edited by coolthought; 12th May 2011 at 02:43 PM.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

  9. #69
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolthought

    but once we started with a brand, most will probably stick to it, like in a marriage. And in the case of "divorce" or change of system, it will be messy as you may have to get rid of many things. (or unless one is rich)

    So... consider carefully before "putting your signature above the line and said I do"
    Yes. Be a man, do the right thing. Go mirrorless. Dslr already obsolete.

    ;P

  10. #70

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Yes, and how so many pros are apparently "thirsty" for portrait lenses that are rumored to be out in 2012... I don't know a single pro who will wait for a certain lens and in the meantime use a system that does not fulfill his needs...
    I think you are referring to a different thread where we talked about portrait lenses. Please keep the conversation relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I faintly remember someone saying things in the lines of mirrorless will take over all Dslr, an professionals will love it.

    Now it is about the beginners.

    Heh... Funny how the weather changes so fast nowadays.
    My original comment was that I personally believed that DSLRs will fade away. It seems many are sensitive to this. With this kind of enthusiasm DSLRs might yet persist a little longer, who knows?

    The professional question was in response to Alan Chan's comment on page 2 and discusses the future of mirrorless. Professionals don't have many options right now of course, except maybe street shooting journalists who need a small alternative.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  11. #71

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    yes. Be a man, do the right thing. Go mirrorless. Dslr already obsolete.

    ok, i will

  12. #72

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    Well, I don't know too but its ok, now my thread become quite informative too. But this prove at least 1 thing, technology are everchanging and we avg consumers are nowhere catching up with it.
    I did play with a film slr before and its a bit heavier than my current P&S I believe.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Yes. Be a man, do the right thing. Go mirrorless. Dslr already obsolete.

    ;P
    but.... I like hearing the sound of the "slapping" mirror leh.
    and I can still view through the view finder seeing the result of the creaminess of the photo, rotating the lens and making it long without turning it on.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

  14. #74
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fringster0
    Well, I don't know too but its ok, now my thread become quite informative too. But this prove at least 1 thing, technology are everchanging and we avg consumers are nowhere catching up with it.
    I did play with a film slr before and its a bit heavier than my current P&S I believe.
    No la. It must be your mind playing tricks on ya. Some folks here swear that film cams of yesteryear are much lighter.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by fringster0 View Post
    Well, I don't know too but its ok, now my thread become quite informative too. But this prove at least 1 thing, technology are everchanging and we avg consumers are nowhere catching up with it.
    I did play with a film slr before and its a bit heavier than my current P&S I believe.
    there will be no end to it, probably you may have to make a decision based on economics. Getting the best value for money. Another thing to consider is the third party support. It makes economic sense for the third party manufacturer to produce things for the more popular brand.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt

    I think you are referring to a different thread where we talked about portrait lenses. Please keep the conversation relevant.

    My original comment was that I personally believed that DSLRs will fade away. It seems many are sensitive to this. With this kind of enthusiasm DSLRs might yet persist a little longer, who knows?

    The professional question was in response to Alan Chan's comment on page 2 and discusses the future of mirrorless. Professionals don't have many options right now of course, except maybe street shooting journalists who need a small alternative.
    And it is my opinion that Dslr is here to stay. Mirrorless will be popular but mostly restricted in the consumer space. And it is also my opinion that evf is still not good enough to replace the ovf and I have not seen any technology that implies or suggest that it is capable of performance equivalent the view of an ovf anytime in our life time.

    But talking about some day in the future, it may happen. Hell maybe one day the camera will be implanted in our eyes.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Why is it... That any recent thread that has a newbie asking what DSLR to get turns into a pro-mirrorless campaign?

    Then might as well just start your own thread where people can discuss this instead of flooding other people's threads with the praises of unproven systems, lenses that are "heralded" because they were slightly better in one aspect than cheap kit lenses, and supposedly have "nice bokeh" when they don't... Then when newbies start a "what dslr to get" thread you can just say "You can also consider mirrorless" and link them to your thread instead of spamming threads and turning everything into a "mirrorless vs. dslr" war.
    i was wondering where you went and when you'd show up

  18. #78

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    It's fine to love a new-fangled technology and all, but to be the doomsayer of an existing (and popular) technology by spouting premature theories about its demise....
    but hor.... we don't want to be like Kodak which refuse to embrace new technology and went obsolete.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolthought

    but hor.... we don't want to be like Kodak which refuse to embrace new technology and went obsolete.
    Actually kodak went for new tech and they went obsolete.

    Kodak invented the first ccd sensor. Kodak made digicams and sensors for other companies in the early days. And they died.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Beginner to dslr

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Actually kodak went for new tech and they went obsolete.

    Kodak invented the first ccd sensor. Kodak made digicams and sensors for other companies in the early days. And they died.
    they "gave birth" to it but did not "embrace" nor "protect" it.
    Now the "baby" "grew up" under someone else care. Nothing can reverse it.
    Last edited by coolthought; 12th May 2011 at 03:20 PM.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

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