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Thread: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyorange View Post
    hi may i know where to get YongNuo 467? haha
    http://www.jl-photo.net/

    and there is another from mass sales DC accessories but i think he is out of the country....

    get the Yongnuo-467 model cause its the only one that will do iTTL with nikon but if you can wait the yongnuo-565 is the same as the yongnuo-560 but with iTTL its coming out may2011
    D3100

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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    http://www.jl-photo.net/

    and there is another from mass sales DC accessories but i think he is out of the country....

    get the Yongnuo-467 model cause its the only one that will do iTTL with nikon but if you can wait the yongnuo-565 is the same as the yongnuo-560 but with iTTL its coming out may2011
    hey thanks =).... im thinking if sb400 or YongNuo 467 is better? haha. hope to know more about flash haha
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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by brapodam View Post
    You don't need 5 flashes to use CLS. You just need one. The D3100 does not have a in-built flash commander, but it doesn't mean that the TS will not upgrade his body in the future. When I got a flash for my D5000, I did do my research, and chose the SB-600 over third party alternatives (Nissin Di622 Mk II, Yongnuo flashes, etc.). This is because I know I would upgrade my body in the future - which I did, to a D90, to help me take advantage of the CLS system. I got my 2nd hand D90 at $680 (you just have to hunt a bit and not be so fussy about the condition), a 18-55 VR on B&S goes for $100+, still under $1k. Stretch the budget a bit (not by much), and he can get a 2nd hand SB-600.

    I am not a fanboy, I know that there are alternatives to the CLS system. But they are not equal alternatives. These triggers allow you to trigger your flashes. They don't allow you to change your flash power right from your camera. That makes a huge difference IMO. You may not realise it when you don't have it. But when you have it, you realise you can't live without it. Also, not everyone who swear by the CLS system have limited imagination. In fact, it is quite the contrary. In fact, some people who have limited imagination go for radio poppers just because they can't figure out ways to trigger their flash with CLS, because they don't know how to find places to bounce off the IR light, etc, and believe that they need radio triggers.

    Blindly recommending lenses to people isn't very helpful. I made that mistake by listening to advice from people and reviews. I was told that the 55-200 is a very good lens, very sharp, value for money blah blah blah. I got it, and have used it less than 10 times. I have since sold it away. It is just a lens that does not suit my style of shooting. A 35/1.8 and a 55-200 combo may be perfect for you, but how do you know if that will suit his shooting style? What if he likes to shoot ultra wide? A Tokina 12-24 II or Sigma 10-20 may be a better idea. If he gets a 55-200, he may not use it at all.

    My recommendation is always to use a 18-55 or 18-105 first, see what range you use the most, see if you need/want a faster aperture etc, then decide on what to buy.


    just a quick question.... you mentioned that "But when you have it, you realise you can't live without it" meaning CLS
    the last 6 months how many times have you used it? i see on your flickr page you used it on your lion series was CLS really crucial for you to get those pics? the point that im trying to make here is CLS is nice to have but its not really crucial for you to get results that you want and considering the price difference i believe money is better spent elsewhere...
    Last edited by wasak2000; 11th April 2011 at 04:38 PM.
    D3100

  4. #64

    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    just a quick question.... you mentioned that "But when you have it, you realise you can't live without it" meaning CLS
    the last 6 months how many times have you used it? i see on your flickr page you used it on your lion series was CLS really crucial for you to get those pics? the point that im trying to make here is CLS is nice to have but its not really crucial for you to get results that you want and considering the price difference i believe money is better spent elsewhere...
    The last 6 months? I only got my D90 last month, so there is not much opportunity to use it. The lion series was just my first test of the CLS system, to get myself familiar with it. Without light modifiers and light stands, the setup was severely crippled (but that has nothing to do with the CLS system itself). It definitely wouldn't have happened without CLS. On camera flash would not give me the backlighting that I wanted. Would I have gotten the same results if I had gotten a radio trigger? Sure. But I'm not sure if it will be cheaper. I upgraded my D5000 to D90 at a cost of $80, since I sold my D5000 at $600, and bought my D90 at $680. And not all the $80 went into the CLS system. It also went to better controls, ability to use AF-D lenses which I may get in the future, larger grip. Is CLS really that expensive? Moreover, do you look at value or price - that is something very important.

    Sure, Nikon flashes are more expensive - you could probably get 2 Yongnuo flashes at the same price as my SB-600. But are they always reliable? Is their flash power and temperature consistent? I'm not saying they are not, but you get my idea. Can I change my flash settings right from my camera when I need them? I haven't got much into portraiture or product shooting yet, but when I do in the future after I get myself familiarized with controlling off camera flashes, changing my flash power from my camera is going to save me a lot of time and effort (talking about off camera flash here of course) - something to consider. I don't fancy running around to my light stand, lowering it, changing power, then running back again to shoot.

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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by brapodam View Post
    The last 6 months? I only got my D90 last month, so there is not much opportunity to use it. The lion series was just my first test of the CLS system, to get myself familiar with it. Without light modifiers and light stands, the setup was severely crippled (but that has nothing to do with the CLS system itself). It definitely wouldn't have happened without CLS. On camera flash would not give me the backlighting that I wanted. Would I have gotten the same results if I had gotten a radio trigger? Sure. But I'm not sure if it will be cheaper. I upgraded my D5000 to D90 at a cost of $80, since I sold my D5000 at $600, and bought my D90 at $680. And not all the $80 went into the CLS system. It also went to better controls, ability to use AF-D lenses which I may get in the future, larger grip. Is CLS really that expensive? Moreover, do you look at value or price - that is something very important.

    Sure, Nikon flashes are more expensive - you could probably get 2 Yongnuo flashes at the same price as my SB-600. But are they always reliable? Is their flash power and temperature consistent? I'm not saying they are not, but you get my idea. Can I change my flash settings right from my camera when I need them? I haven't got much into portraiture or product shooting yet, but when I do in the future after I get myself familiarized with controlling off camera flashes, changing my flash power from my camera is going to save me a lot of time and effort (talking about off camera flash here of course) - something to consider. I don't fancy running around to my light stand, lowering it, changing power, then running back again to shoot.

    so basically all that stuff advocating the benefits of the CLS comes from one month experience with one speed light? please forgive me i didn't realize i was debating with an expert... peace...
    Last edited by wasak2000; 12th April 2011 at 12:34 AM.
    D3100

  6. #66

    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    so basically all that stuff advocating the benefits of the CLS comes from one month experience with one speed light? please forgive i didn't realize i was debating with an expert... peace...
    Well, compared to someone who has not use CLS before and saying that CLS is not worth the extra money, I think he has more credibility.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    to TS here is my final recommendation

    Nikon D3100 with AFS DX 18-55mm VR = 800sg
    AFS DX 55-200mm VR = 250sg
    YongNuo 467 = 130sg
    AFS 35 1.8 = 320sg

    that setup should set you back around 1500sg but will cover about 90 % of all your needs
    you have 18-200 focal length covered and you will have low light capabilities with the 1.8 aperture of the 35mm
    basically this setup will let you get a sample or taste of what can be done with DSLRs without breaking the bank and you can grow from here...
    Nice ! Personally I'm using 35mm 1.8 and 18-200 3.5-5.6 !
    It really covers the whole range of the types of photos you want to take.
    On a second note , Lately I did not take much photos of more than focal length of 135mm...
    It all falls back on to the type of shots you want to capture !

  8. #68

    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    so basically all that stuff advocating the benefits of the CLS comes from one month experience with one speed light? please forgive i didn't realize i was debating with an expert... peace...
    There are things you can read up on the internet, for instance from strobist.com, and there are flickr photos to look at, and there are videos where I see the CLS in action. So far from what I've seen, it's a good system. I cannot say if it's better or worse than the cheap China triggers coupled with cheap Yongnuo flashes because I have not seen that kind of setup in action, so I cannot say for sure if they are superior or inferior. But what I know is that the CLS system works, and is well worth the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000

    you are getting ahead of yourselves already.... the TS has stated he has only about 1k budget so forget about the CLS system of Nikon which in my opinion is way overpriced.... only fanboys with too much money and limited imagination use them there are a lot of cheaper alternatives....

    I maintain my opinion that given his budget constraints the D3100 coupled with a third party flash (yongnou or nissin) and an extra lens either the 55-200 or the 35 1.8 would be the way for him to go
    Nobody is questioning your opinion. You are entitled to have yours. I am just presenting the other side of the story. That one has to look beyond the current purchase. People do buy and add more equipment as time passes.

    By the way, real 'fanboys' use radiopoppers and pocketwizards.

    Have fun being 'creative' walking back and forth adjusting light ratios. And also have fun trying to do HSS with your cheap triggers and your yongnuos.

    The rest of us prefer to get the job done fast in the most time efficient manner firing off camera flashes at 1/8000 with no issues when needed. Cheers
    Last edited by daredevil123; 11th April 2011 at 07:05 PM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    you are getting ahead of yourselves already.... the TS has stated he has only about 1k budget so forget about the CLS system of Nikon which in my opinion is way overpriced.... only fanboys with too much money and limited imagination use them there are a lot of cheaper alternatives....

    I maintain my opinion that given his budget constraints the D3100 coupled with a third party flash (yongnou or nissin) and an extra lens either the 55-200 or the 35 1.8 would be the way for him to go
    fanboys use cls, what more else does fanboys uses, all the 1.4s lens AFS versions, Pro-body DSLR, eg D3/s/x or 1D/1Ds series

    care to enlighten me...?? im a noob... need more explanation
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    Quote Originally Posted by akerue

    fanboys use cls, what more else does fanboys uses, all the 1.4s lens AFS versions, Pro-body DSLR, eg D3/s/x or 1D/1Ds series

    care to enlighten me...?? im a noob... need more explanation
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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by spree86 View Post
    Well, compared to someone who has not use CLS before and saying that CLS is not worth the extra money, I think he has more credibility.

    whether CLS is worth the money or not is matter of opinion so i don't think you have any basis to judge my credibility on that basis alone... maybe blindly swallowing what the big camera companies feed the masses to get more profit is the way for you rich boys overflowing with oodles of cash but its not for me... id rather try to learn more from good old fashion Ingenuity than just rely on technology mcnally wannabees thinks is the end all and be all when it comes to flash photography.... but hey that just me ...
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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Nobody is questioning your opinion. You are entitled to have yours. I am just presenting the other side of the story. That one has to look beyond the current purchase. People do buy and add more equipment as time passes.

    By the way, real 'fanboys' use radiopoppers and pocketwizards.

    Have fun being 'creative' walking back and forth adjusting light ratios. And also have fun trying to do HSS with your cheap triggers and your yongnuos.

    The rest of us prefer to get the job done fast in the most time efficient manner firing off camera flashes at 1/8000 with no issues when needed. Cheers
    By definition a Fanboy is a pejorative term used to describe an individual who is utterly devoted to a single fannish subject( in this case CLS), or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors (often including logic) that differ from their point of view.

    I think you have it the other way around...

    (Have fun being 'creative' walking back and forth adjusting light ratios. And also have fun trying to do HSS with your cheap triggers and your yongnuos)

    Thanks I do have fun moving back and forth to change settings on my cheap triggers and cheap yongnuos its more of the journey for me instead of the destination.. I find it more challenging than just relying on what I can technology I can buy to do the work for me...

    Cheers...
    Last edited by wasak2000; 12th April 2011 at 12:31 AM.
    D3100

  14. #74

    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    whether CLS is worth the money or not is matter of opinion so i don't think you have any basis to judge my credibility on that basis alone... maybe blindly swallowing what the big camera companies feed the masses to get more profit is the way for you rich boys overflowing with oodles of cash but its not for me... id rather try to learn more from good old fashion Ingenuity than just rely on technology mcnally wannabees thinks is the end all and be all when it comes to flash photography.... but hey that just me ...
    when u make this suggested opinion of yours is solely based on ya views towards hobbyist paying a premium price for CLS and its CLS compatible accessories or in general which includes those working in this line and sector.

    yesh i agree, that there are cheaper alternative to getting those CLS compatible Speedlites which might caused a hole in pocket for some, but the use of it does not degrade nor stifles your creativity, in the end u can always manually adjust ya power tru your camera, where and how u place the lights to achieve that effect is still up to the photographer. so im a bit confused does those who use CLS doesnt need to place the speedlites at a desire angle or distance, does using CLS the speedlites and lightstand moves on its on, well the only so call "flaw" or shld i say ease of use with CLS, is that u dont need to run to and fro to adjust the flash power.... no HSS, thats all, the real down fall of CLS it need to work in line of sight....

    so does my rebuttal to your opinion of those using CLS loses out the old fashion ingenuity, as far as i know in my short green stint in photograpy, CLS dont help moves the lightstands or the speedlights, it only help to control flash power, and help trigger the flash....

    still a noob and confused.. do enlighten me
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  15. #75

    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    whether CLS is worth the money or not is matter of opinion so i don't think you have any basis to judge my credibility on that basis alone... maybe blindly swallowing what the big camera companies feed the masses to get more profit is the way for you rich boys overflowing with oodles of cash but its not for me... id rather try to learn more from good old fashion Ingenuity than just rely on technology mcnally wannabees thinks is the end all and be all when it comes to flash photography.... but hey that just me ...
    Haha noticed that no one had mentioned that CLS is the end all and be all of flash photography in this whole thread, what was said was that it is a useful system. I wonder how you draw that conclusion. Not falling for marketing tactics is good but denying a fact is just plain ignorance. Well just leave it at that and agree to disagree.

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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    By definition a Fanboy is a pejorative term used to describe an individual who is utterly devoted to a single fannish subject( in this case CLS), or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, disregarding any factors (often including logic) that differ from their point of view.

    I think you have it the other way around...

    (Have fun being 'creative' walking back and forth adjusting light ratios. And also have fun trying to do HSS with your cheap triggers and your yongnuos)

    Thanks I do have fun moving back and forth to change settings on my cheap triggers and cheap yongnuos its more of the journey for me instead of the destination.. I find it more challenging than just relying on what I can technology I can buy to do the work for me...

    Cheers...
    Hmmm... funny how I think CLS is useful and a better way of working than using manual triggers. And that will make someone a fanboy? LOL...

    BTW I use pocketwizards too. So does that make me a pocketwizard fanboy?

    By your own definition, you are fanboy as well, obsessed with your cheap flashes and cheap triggers, since you sound like you are obsessed with them.

    Equipment are just tools. The faster and easier it can make you work, the better it is. Creativity is not walking around to set ratios. Creativity is moving lights around, changing things, geling different colors, changing ratios. CLS makes it all faster and easier. Pocketwizards make them even faster. Radiopoppers extends CLS range longer.

    Going by your logic, no one should use light meters, autofocus, digital cameras or even modern flashes. Because making things easier will stifle creativity, according to you.

    Last edited by daredevil123; 12th April 2011 at 12:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by akerue View Post
    when u make this suggested opinion of yours is solely based on ya views towards hobbyist paying a premium price for CLS and its CLS compatible accessories or in general which includes those working in this line and sector.

    yesh i agree, that there are cheaper alternative to getting those CLS compatible Speedlites which might caused a hole in pocket for some, but the use of it does not degrade nor stifles your creativity, in the end u can always manually adjust ya power tru your camera, where and how u place the lights to achieve that effect is still up to the photographer. so im a bit confused does those who use CLS doesnt need to place the speedlites at a desire angle or distance, does using CLS the speedlites and lightstand moves on its on, well the only so call "flaw" or shld i say ease of use with CLS, is that u dont need to run to and fro to adjust the flash power.... no HSS, thats all, the real down fall of CLS it need to work in line of sight....

    so does my rebuttal to your opinion of those using CLS loses out the old fashion ingenuity, as far as i know in my short green stint in photograpy, CLS dont help moves the lightstands or the speedlights, it only help to control flash power, and help trigger the flash....

    still a noob and confused.. do enlighten me
    his thread has gone way way... OT ..... as i have said before its matter of opinion in my case CLS is not for me as i find it way overpriced for the benefit that it brings... if it works for you guys ... then more power to you... but i wont be changing my mind in thinking that money is best spent elsewhere and definitely i wont be recommending it to someone starting out on DSLRs the which in case everyone forgot is what this thread was all about before it got sidetracked by this argument about CLS
    D3100

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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by spree86 View Post
    Haha noticed that no one had mentioned that CLS is the end all and be all of flash photography in this whole thread, what was said was that it is a useful system. I wonder how you draw that conclusion. Not falling for marketing tactics is good but denying a fact is just plain ignorance. Well just leave it at that and agree to disagree.
    yep you hit the nail on the head better if we agree to disagree...peace...
    D3100

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    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Hmmm... funny how I think CLS is useful and a better way of working than using manual triggers. And that will make someone a fanboy? LOL...

    BTW I use pocketwizards too. So does that make me a pocketwizard fanboy?

    By your own definition, you are fanboy as well, obsessed with your cheap flashes and cheap triggers, since you sound like you are obsessed with them.

    Equipment are just tools. The faster and easier it can make you work, the better it is. Creativity is not walking around to set ratios. Creativity is moving lights around, changing things, geling different colors, changing ratios. CLS makes it all faster and easier. Pocketwizards make them even faster. Radiopoppers extends CLS range longer.

    Going by your logic, no one should use light meters, autofocus, digital cameras or even modern flashes. Because making things easier will stifle creativity, according to you.

    never did i mention forgoing technology altogether only challenged people would think that the point i was trying to make is one of practicality..
    creativity can also be making do with what is practical and not relying on what your wallet can afford when there are obvious cheaper alternatives
    anyway this has gone long enough lets just agree to disagree... peace...
    D3100

  20. #80

    Default Re: Experts/Experienced/Old Birds - Kindly advise... Canon 550D Vs Nkon 3100

    Quote Originally Posted by wasak2000 View Post
    his thread has gone way way... OT ..... as i have said before its matter of opinion in my case CLS is not for me as i find it way overpriced for the benefit that it brings... if it works for you guys ... then more power to you... but i wont be changing my mind in thinking that money is best spent elsewhere and definitely i wont be recommending it to someone starting out on DSLRs the which in case everyone forgot is what this thread was all about before it got sidetracked by this argument about CLS
    well the only power i see, is the output of my speedlites, other than that i dont see others, just that, u came across as so adamant that CLS is only for fanboys and it stifles out creativity and ingenuity, when placement and light set up is soley the photographer eyes and vision on how he intend to have his final shot like, the use of CLS or Pocketwizards efficiently reduces the time needed to walk to and fro just to adjust the power ratio.

    No harm intended, to CLS or not to CLS, its in everyone comfort zone, and i see you fine with yours, thats good, u make things work with the budget u set out to achieve with, but i still see no heads or tails abt not being creative enough...
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