Developing Ilford HP5+ for scanning

[glchua]

I am new to processing BW film, been shooting XP2 and T400CN for many years. Shot some Tri-X some time ago but was developed by a lab.

I had bought some HP5+ and I would like to know what is a good developer for this film. I will be rating it at EI400 and occassionally EI800 or 1600. I will most likely be developing it near room temperature also. I will be scanning the film using my "old" and trusty Nikon Coolscan 4000 ED (I know that ICE, etc doesn't work) so I was also hoping for a developing recipe that would give me good scans.
Thanks for looking!

[canturn]

For pushed HP5, you might want to consider Microphen developer from Ilford. It gives you fine grains and doesn't give you the kind of "pushed" look like D76 would. However, you will need to develop it at 20 degrees. Check out some of the prints by Andrian Ensor, microphen + hp5 is one of his favourite combi.

What kind of look do you want? If you want the more classic look, go for D76 @ 1+1 dilution. For the more edgey and punchy grain look, go for Rodinal, but you'll definitely need ice for this. Take note that pushed film in Rodinal is not a good idea.

If you find 20 degrees a hassle, try Diafine, but my experience with it is that it doesn't work as well as Tri-x. You'll need to rate that at ISO800 throughout the entire roll. Tonality wise is quite flat, but if you're intending to scan, it shouldn't be a prob. HP5 souped in Diafine is quite a tough film to print in a darkroom.

[glchua]

Thanks Canturn!

I looked thru the web and there was no info on Microphen for HP5+ @ EI400. Can it also be used at this speed?

The problem is that it is not economical for me to keep 2 developers as I only do about 10 rolls a month so I was hoping for a "complete" solution (typical Singaporean!) that can allow me to process normally and do some push at the same time.

I am looking for good shadow details, fine to medium grain as grain gets exagerated in my scanner. Tonality shouldn't be too flat too as I may want to do darkroom printing in the future (if my family commitments allow).

BTW, apologies for my ignorance, can I compensate for Microphen @ room temp or is Microphen's performance poor at temp greater tha 20C? What is the tolerance, or the error I can make at 20C (or other temp?)?

[canturn]

Microphen typical timing is 7 minutes at 20 degrees c for EI 800. You'll be doing like sub 5 minutes developing @ 27 degrees C...anything below 5 minutes is not recommended as it may result in uneven development of the neg.

[student]

Originally Posted by glchua Thanks Canturn! I looked thru the web and there was no info on Microphen for HP5+ @ EI400. Can it also be used at this speed?

HP5 in Microphen.

EL 400 1+1 12 minutes
EL 400 1+3 23 minutes
EL 800 1+1 15 minutes
EL 1600 Stock 11 minutes
EL 3200 Stock 16 minutes

All the above at 20 C and with usual agitation.

Having looked at CS as well as offstone, I am perplex why it is so difficult to process things at 20C. Just use some crushed ice and you get perfect processing temperature all the time. Put some ice cubes from your fridge into plastic bags, and hammer it. Voila! The chips are there! Of course when you wash, the temperature may rise depending on where you are. Where I am, the temperature do not go beyond 24 C. I do not see any problem. But if you prefer to develop at a nigher temperature, you have to conduct your own test to check for the correct duration. Even so, you have to keep the temperature constant for that time!

[kex]

totally agree with u on the 20 deg temp.
when i run out of ice,i juz use the plain water in the fridge and mix with tap water to get 20 deg.u can try to pour about 50ml cold water+200ml of tap water and see wad temp u get and adjust according to cut the waiting time to minimum.

[glchua]

Originally Posted by canturn Microphen typical timing is 7 minutes at 20 degrees c for EI 800. You'll be doing like sub 5 minutes developing @ 27 degrees C...anything below 5 minutes is not recommended as it may result in uneven development of the neg.

Thanks! I was thinking that the chemistry should be the same at 27C, just faster, and I never thought of the difficult to reproduce the process if the timings are too fast.

Thanks to all for the input.

I'll try out once I get my hands on a developing tank, and some Microphen!

[canturn]

chemistry at 27 degree C is a little too grainy and sometimes uneven. Don't forget, for something that is developed in say 4 min, it means to say that part of your film will be more developed the minute you start pouring the chemicals in. Especially when you're dealing with those big tanks that does 6-8 rolls in one tank. Pouring chemicals in takes like 30 secs via a funnel, and 30 secs out of 4 minutes is rather critical.

I always have a ready supply of 3 litre cold water in the fridge for 20 degree C. If you're using a large developing tank, temp should stay between 20~22 degree C. Shouldn't change much if you are to use those big tanks (Mine changes by 1 degree the most).

[medaman]

i use ILFORD DDX 9min @20C
it's really good for me.
blown up to 11x14 and the grain is still good.
very good range of tones too. only pricey i guess..

[glchua]

Originally Posted by medaman i use ILFORD DDX 9min @20C it's really good for me. blown up to 11x14 and the grain is still good. very good range of tones too. only pricey i guess..

Actually, after more extensive search, I found a lot of reference to DDX. Is it that expensive compared to Microphen? I've read that it is actually the liquid version of Microphen. Handling powders is fine as I could repackage them in my lab for single use, so it boils down to cost now.

Do you use it at 1:4 dilution or 1:8? I've also read that it may be better to use it at 1:8 and extend the development time for 1:4 by 50%. That would reduce the cost by half. Also, that would mean that I could process at near room temperature for 1:8 as the development time would not be too short such that it becomes non-reproducible.

Don't know, all speculations until I try them out. But maybe somebody had done something like that before. Can't wait to do it though!

[medaman]

DDX costed me abt $28 for a concentrate litre.
i use it at 1:4 ... so 5 litres in total.
9mins at 20C. ... if you used at 1:8... developing time becomes 18 mins?
i think that's a tad too long for film development... but do try and let us know how it goes...
totally happy at wad i get now...tho'

[glchua]

Finally developed my first roll of HP5+!

After looking at all information and considering all options, my method was:

HP5+ in DDX (1:9), 27C, 8 minutes, spiral twirled (Paterson Universal tank)after adding in the developer and inverted 3 times every minute thereafter. Single water rinse followed by stop bath, inverted a few times, then Ilford Rapid Fixer (1:4), then a 3 rinse wash and wetting agent recommended by Ilford.

All at room temperature. Reason is to save trouble with temperature control and reduce cost for developer.

Actually, I cooled the developing solution a little to match published times for 1:9 DDX (extrapolated from a 20 C data in www.digitaltruth.com). I hope to do it at 28-30C eventually.

To my untrained eye, the neg seems nice, not too contrasty like TriX developed by commercial labs. Grain is also quite good. But as this is the first time, I don't really know if I had done it right. Maybe time to attend a course and let someone evaluate my negs.

A BIG advantage is that although I dried the negs normally in a ventilated room, I don't get the enormous amount of dust from negs developed by commercial labs. Of course, there is also quite significant cost savings.

[pipefish]

Hi,

I have found that hanging your negs in the bathroom, especially after someone has taken a shower, is a surefire way to avoid dust settling on them.

Alan

Originally Posted by glchua Finally developed my first roll of HP5+! After looking at all information and considering all options, my method was: HP5+ in DDX (1:9), 27C, 8 minutes, spiral twirled (Paterson Universal tank)after adding in the developer and inverted 3 times every minute thereafter. Single water rinse followed by stop bath, inverted a few times, then Ilford Rapid Fixer (1:4), then a 3 rinse wash and wetting agent recommended by Ilford. All at room temperature. Reason is to save trouble with temperature control and reduce cost for developer. Actually, I cooled the developing solution a little to match published times for 1:9 DDX (extrapolated from a 20 C data in www.digitaltruth.com). I hope to do it at 28-30C eventually. To my untrained eye, the neg seems nice, not too contrasty like TriX developed by commercial labs. Grain is also quite good. But as this is the first time, I don't really know if I had done it right. Maybe time to attend a course and let someone evaluate my negs. A BIG advantage is that although I dried the negs normally in a ventilated room, I don't get the enormous amount of dust from negs developed by commercial labs. Of course, there is also quite significant cost savings.

[glchua]

Just to tie up loose ends,

I had refined the process after a few trials. Best condition, with grain not too obstrusive for scanning, is:

27C, DDX 1+9, 7min, single inversion after every minute.

I think a lower contrast and yet good for scanning would be 6-7min, but I think I'm comfortable with what I'm getting now, a certain character in the image which I do not get with C41 films.

[medaman]

glchua,
i'm glad you're enjoying DDX on your HP5s.. That's something i started with, and am still enjoying the lovely stuffs it churns my negs into.. =)

[glchua]

Originally Posted by medaman i use ILFORD DDX 9min @20C it's really good for me. blown up to 11x14 and the grain is still good. very good range of tones too. only pricey i guess..

I like it so much that I bought another 60 rolls of HP5+ !! At the promotion price of $3 per roll, and considering processing cost, its only about $4-5 per roll compared to C41 total costs of $9-10 per roll.

BTW, Tri-X now cost $5-5.50 per roll, film only. So HP5+ is really very cheap.

Hope Ilford can pull through its financial crisis, then maybe I'll start to do darkroom printing instead of digital scans.

[pipefish]

Hope Ilford can pull through its financial crisis, then maybe I'll start to do darkroom printing instead of digital scans.[/quote]

Well, there's always AGFA. I love the results I get from their FB papers. Seriously, a darkroom print is the way to go for BW, until printer ink development advances.

[kex]

Just bought 20 rolls of delta 100 to support ilford..