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Thread: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

  1. #21

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    yeah, I get what you mean. A degree/diploma does provide some buffer or exit strategy if things don't work out. I used Bill Gates and Steve Jobs as examples because they are famous and everybody knows them. But there are also people around me who do really well without a degree and some are even better than degree holders. The similarities I found in them are the great passion, determination and never give up spirits. No risk no gain, but if you know what you want to do and have proper planning, the road twill be easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    be really careful when comparing us as normal people to these exceptional people. They were drop out, but they do know their inner voice to start with and have guts to make it.

    The TS not even sure about what course to take let alone understand what he want to achieve with life.

    It is scary not knowing all that and jump straight in... And chances are, they may change their mind later on and then what happen?

    Working full time as a photographer is not as simple as many people will think. Most people who fail seems to think photography is all they need to be successful. Photography is just part of the equation.

    If TS is being funded by Ma&Pa scholarship now, he should do a degree and really learn the whole process, not just academically. I been through uni and I am a good studio and prefer to do what I want... What I learn more during my uni days are things that I don't learn in the classroom. It's the whole process that you should look at.

    Excel academically don't guarantee you well off life after, but it does give you a buffer or perhaps an exit strategy if things don't work out.

    Of course, if TS is a type of person who know 100% what is his inner voice, and willing to tolerate risk, by all means, quit school and jump right in.

    Regards,

    Hart
    Kent Wong Photography |Leica Q & Leica M-P 240 | 75 & 28mm Summilux

  2. #22

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    actually, the option to just quit school doesn't cross my mind at all, and i don't think i wanna do that.. why quit school and become an assistant PG when you can get a degree and become a BETTER assistant? i am not in any sort of "scholarship" from my parents, they only help me financially for part of my daily spending.. i am taking loan now and this is part of the reason why i don't want to waste my university life struggling to just get a pass grades.. i am interested in mechanical engineering, it is the reason why in the first place i chose this.. but after a while, i find it really difficult to catch up and cope with the course.. and i found out that NTU has photography degree under its ADM school, and i was thinking, why not take my passion into something of a higher level? but in the process of assessing the risk and consequences, weighing the pros and cons of both course, one thing that i can't really determine is the job opportunity after getting BFA in photog & digital imaging (the degree is photography and digital imaging to be precise, and not only photography).. i can't help but to ask in this thread when i first see it..

    so, my question was actually, what can someone do with this degree? having just notice the existence of this degree in the last two months and weighing my decision, i still can't find what kind of job would someone with this degree can opt for? if what TS (actually, Hart, i am not the TS..) said that PGs can only make $1.3k/month, i don't think that would be enough for me to pay my loans and at the same time feed my family.. if what said is true, i may have to rethink about it even harder.. but if some of you have different views, maybe you know what are the options that i can choose after graduation, or maybe you think that the figures are just minimum figures, or anything, please help me.. i really need those inputs.. because some of you have already said it, we need to assess the risk, and do a proper planning, set some backup plans, etc.. that's what i am doing now.. and if i can say honestly, i don't enjoy the process now, i don't have life in university other than late night studying.. my decision of transferring has been somewhat solid, maybe 75%, but i still need to find out that, before really making it 100% or even cancel it altogether.. i still have around 3 more months to think before making the decision, and this is the data i still can't find now..

    TS, i am so sorry to hijack this thread, but it's still about photo biz, right?
    - troubled undergrad -
    Olympus XA/Canon QL17 GIII flickr

  3. #23

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    My bad... I have forgotten that you are not the TS.

    Anyway, with photography, why not start doing something now while doing your degree. I didn't really like my Engineering Degree much too, so I finish it 0.5 year earlier by overloading the courses. Soon after 4 years of practising, I see myself not doing engineering for life hence quit and start photography.

    Maybe I have good business sense, good technical ability from engineering and desperate enough to make it work, I actually do well in photography.

    There is not much people I know that have a degree in photography to get the job. Of course, if you are studying photography degree and you are exceptionally good, company might give you a job, that is what I could think of. Nothing to do with the paper degree that you hold. But that only happen if you are exceptionally good.

    I would say, do it if your gut feeling think it is right... of course, it is your life and you need to make sure this is what you want to do.

    Regards,

    Hart

  4. #24

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    My bad... I have forgotten that you are not the TS.

    Anyway, with photography, why not start doing something now while doing your degree. I didn't really like my Engineering Degree much too, so I finish it 0.5 year earlier by overloading the courses. Soon after 4 years of practising, I see myself not doing engineering for life hence quit and start photography.

    Maybe I have good business sense, good technical ability from engineering and desperate enough to make it work, I actually do well in photography.

    There is not much people I know that have a degree in photography to get the job. Of course, if you are studying photography degree and you are exceptionally good, company might give you a job, that is what I could think of. Nothing to do with the paper degree that you hold. But that only happen if you are exceptionally good.

    I would say, do it if your gut feeling think it is right... of course, it is your life and you need to make sure this is what you want to do.

    Regards,

    Hart
    haha! this is one good advice i think.. but i can't really overload now, even the school has already told me to slow things down, and they have already dropped some of my subjects.. so i doubt i can get it over quickly.. haha..

    anyway, just something to share, actually in O-level, i dropped my Amaths because i never got a pass.. in A level, i took H2 maths because the teacher mentor adviced me to do so.. i didn't regret that, as i could get into mechanical engineering.. mechanical is actually something that i really like and interested in.. but, after a while, i think i know my limit and thus i now think that as much as i like it, this may not be the suitable course for me.. that's why i am thinking of transferring instead of straining myself..
    - troubled undergrad -
    Olympus XA/Canon QL17 GIII flickr

  5. #25

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    I think one point to keep in mind is that it is much better to have something to fall back on. If you quit right now, you may end up with nothing to back you up in the event that you don't make it in photography or decide that it is better to keep it as a hobby instead of as a career

  6. #26

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Bayusuputra,

    ADM grads have gone on to employment as media editors for wire news agencies or photo editors in publications. Some have gone on to work in the creative accounts servicing sector. However, an undergraduate education in photography/fine art/design not the main prerequisite for such jobs. Baseline experience gained during your freelance jobs, etc are equally important.

    1.3k as a photographer is not your only option, and needless to say, I find that pay scale listed within highly inaccurate.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Quote Originally Posted by Teufelhunden View Post
    Bayusuputra,

    ADM grads have gone on to employment as media editors for wire news agencies or photo editors in publications. Some have gone on to work in the creative accounts servicing sector. However, an undergraduate education in photography/fine art/design not the main prerequisite for such jobs. Baseline experience gained during your freelance jobs, etc are equally important.

    1.3k as a photographer is not your only option, and needless to say, I find that pay scale listed within highly inaccurate.
    hmm, this is the kind of answers i am looking for.. are you from ADM? So basically freelancing and internship will also be important if i decide to transfer?
    i just wanna know whether this degree will be acceptable or not in other creative sectors of the workforce.. i mean, like, is it quite versatile as well? or will it be only accepted for photographic sector?
    - troubled undergrad -
    Olympus XA/Canon QL17 GIII flickr

  8. #28

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Quote Originally Posted by bayusuputra View Post
    hmm, this is the kind of answers i am looking for.. are you from ADM? So basically freelancing and internship will also be important if i decide to transfer?
    i just wanna know whether this degree will be acceptable or not in other creative sectors of the workforce.. i mean, like, is it quite versatile as well? or will it be only accepted for photographic sector?
    I'm not from ADM. But I know of people from ADM in those industries. Basically, make sure you have more than your degree if you want to be able to work in other industries.

    For e.g if you are looking to work for a publication, creative agency, museum, or wire agency, you got to show that you are a capable employee, have strategic vision, and not forgetting understand how to value-add their creative work process with what you have learnt in Fine Art or Media.

    Would help if you have curated your own exhibitions or done stuff beyond taking photos, but have shown that you can branch into editing, curation, arts management.. with the requisite internship and/or freelance work experience.

    I can't say if ADM is suitable for other sectors, and I wouldn't be that optimistic in the Singaporean context, however, it might be different overseas.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Teufelhunden; 3rd March 2011 at 02:09 AM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    I for one, believe that 1.3k as an average figure may not be that far off the mark. I know numerous photographers who work full-time (or close to full-time) for without a fee. There are numerous part-time photographers who get approximately 1k per wedding assignment were not captured (which hardly qualifies as 1.3k per month, even if they were captured), as they are not considered to be full-time professionals. Then there are numerous FT photography business owners who report losses or very marginal profits. There are also numerous 'foreign talents' working for really minuscule pay (sub 1k) for some of the photog sectors. I have numerous applicants for jobs as a photographer with me, throwing in the offer to be a designer plus assistant... asking for 1.5k negotiable. I dare say I'm not the least bit surprised.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    I know numerous photographers who work full-time (or close to full-time) for without a fee.
    That doesn't sound very wise. It hurts the trade, and their own reputation when they are trying to move up the ladder and their regular market doesn't respond due to past reputation for less-than-median fees.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Why it becomes so pathetic? It's even worse than a foreign construction worker.
    Kent Wong Photography |Leica Q & Leica M-P 240 | 75 & 28mm Summilux

  12. #32

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Quote Originally Posted by Teufelhunden View Post
    I'm not from ADM. But I know of people from ADM in those industries. Basically, make sure you have more than your degree if you want to be able to work in other industries.

    For e.g if you are looking to work for a publication, creative agency, museum, or wire agency, you got to show that you are a capable employee, have strategic vision, and not forgetting understand how to value-add their creative work process with what you have learnt in Fine Art or Media.

    Would help if you have curated your own exhibitions or done stuff beyond taking photos, but have shown that you can branch into editing, curation, arts management.. with the requisite internship and/or freelance work experience.

    I can't say if ADM is suitable for other sectors, and I wouldn't be that optimistic in the Singaporean context, however, it might be different overseas.

    Cheers
    my plan is that while taking the degree, i want to do freelancing as well, and hopefully, in the 3rd year, i can do internship and do well so my chances of getting called back would be a bit better.. I am thinking of getting occupation as editor/publication or that sort.. something that can help me earn some fixed income, which i can supplement with doing purely photographic jobs.. but i really want to move in the creative sectors.. I am planning to take minor in entrepreneurship/business as well.. at least that is what i can plan now.. i don't mind working hard, as long as i do something that i like..

    well, for working close to nothing, it is really depreciating the art.. i can understand working close to nothing if one is under attachment/internship..

    i always believe that setting a certain standard will help one to push his/herself to a greater height as to prove to others their self-worth.. they decide the price based on the quality of their works, so next-to-nothing price is really...(i guess i don't have to tell the obvious..)
    - troubled undergrad -
    Olympus XA/Canon QL17 GIII flickr

  13. #33

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    My current understanding of Singapore as an economy is that the workforce (including the more localized foreigners seeking a piece of the pie) are extremely sharp observers of the market and industry. When a particular industry shows promise, we will see huge movement of activities in that particular industry. It is no secret that wedding industry showed such promise about 8-9 years back, with the market heating up in these 2 - 3 years to the point of saturation right now. Not just in wedding photography. But a level never before, we see restaurants, bars, even parks courting the wedding couple's dollar. Wedding planners, gown importers, make - up artists flood in at a rate I've never seen before when I joined 5 years back. Needless to say, photographers, full-time or part-time, see the perceived potential and thus stream in at a phenomenal rate too.

    Looking at this economy, photography-wise, many of my clients (I'm in weddings) who are in the creative industry (advertising firms, graphic designs, web designs) shared how they seem to adopt 2 extremes. One is invest is a set of equipment and have their staff do whatever photography work they need (e.g., my client joined the firm as a web designer, but ended up as a photographer as well). The other extreme is to go for really reputable names in the industry. While more and more institutions try to ride on this new market (hobbyists desire to make money from photography) by offering courses and what nots. I believe it's a matter of time that more diplomas and degrees will be handed out. Want to make money? Making money from aspiring photographers is easier than making money from photography at this point.

    But the phenomenon is not exclusive to photography industry, as pointed out by one of the bros. IT industry would be another example. I made the money for the downpayment of my first car in the 90s with web creation. But today, I don't stand a fraction of a chance. Whatever money-making opportunities that arise (software engineering/sales/import/distribution, hardware manufacture/import/sales/distribution, portals... anything) in the industry, we're likely to see it flooded within 2 years. SEO being a more current example.

    But don't lose hope. Brick walls are not there to keep you out. They are there for you to show how much you want it. They are there to keep others out.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Career is always a gamble. You will never know if you will make it if you don't try. If you are looking for stability, this is not for you. Maybe you can consider government job or stats board.
    Please Don't Report This Post To A Moderator

  15. #35
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    hope not off topic.

    for me i am tied down by my financial commitments, but i still hope to be my own boss and go into photography FT. Now I am single so I am planning in the event I am still single years down the road.

    If I am single:
    - Finished up my IT degree which I had been dragging on (this is my backup in case one day i need to step back to work force after going into photography FT)
    - Continue my current FT job till I own and fully paid for my own roof.
    - Rent out my room/flat (this will be my FT income) then do photography FT (anything earned from photography will be surplus to what I earn from my room/flat rental), and of cos i had to watch my spending lifestyle so i dun overspend.

    If I am attached halfway through my plan and settle down:
    - I should have a degree by then, and I will need to find a FT job if my photography is not doing well or continue doing photography FT if I am doing well.
    - Probably stop renting out my room/flat since now I have a wife and I respect our own privacy against "strangers" (tenants)
    Last edited by sinned79; 4th March 2011 at 02:48 PM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Being your own boss to some degree is a gamble as mentioned.

    I guess, it really depend on your own personality. If u prefer to put yourself in a situation where you could think of is potetial and how to make things work. Be your own boss.

    If you are type of person who blame everyone and everything else for your own failure and give up too easily, then u might want to just work for others.

    Business operators are unique people in terms of their thinking process. I always admire the vision from my father in terms of getting things so far ahead. Just to say, if I can see half a mile, he probably see 2 miles ahead of me.

    There are lots of things need to be learned everyday and a lot of mistake to be made to make everything better.

    Regards,

    Hart

  17. #37
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    shinken has pointed out the real picture of wedding photography industrial, too many photographers rush in, only those fit and mean will survive.

    it is the same thing happen to the portrait sector now, whenever people see potential will start to jump on the bandwagon.

    I can share with you one thing, whenever you see customers/client dare to come and ask for FREE, it shows that this sector has more supply than demand, even you won't do but others will, that how customers/client dare to ask around.

    Hart also pointed out clearly, running a photography business, proficiency in business practice is more important than the photography skills.

    many others say passion in photography is very important, yes it is truth, but you need to be alive before you can talk about passion. So what if you can't make a living, provide the necessity to your family, can you feed everybody with your passion in photography?

    Cheesecake, 2100 and many others are the people sharing with you the insider stories. a full time photographer in never a glamorous job, don't be fooled by the movies. it takes don't know how many thousand photographers to make one superstar photographer.

    whatever you do, you need to work hard, harder then your competitors, persistent, keep doing even most people has already given up. The fruits of your labor won't come easily. Give up hard way you will have noting, so think carefully before you start.

    best of luck.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  18. #38
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    i would think that if u can, jus keep fotography as a weekend hobby.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  19. #39

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    shinken has pointed out the real picture of wedding photography industrial, too many photographers rush in, only those fit and mean will survive.

    it is the same thing happen to the portrait sector now, whenever people see potential will start to jump on the bandwagon.

    I can share with you one thing, whenever you see customers/client dare to come and ask for FREE, it shows that this sector has more supply than demand, even you won't do but others will, that how customers/client dare to ask around.

    Hart also pointed out clearly, running a photography business, proficiency in business practice is more important than the photography skills.

    many others say passion in photography is very important, yes it is truth, but you need to be alive before you can talk about passion. So what if you can't make a living, provide the necessity to your family, can you feed everybody with your passion in photography?

    Cheesecake, 2100 and many others are the people sharing with you the insider stories. a full time photographer in never a glamorous job, don't be fooled by the movies. it takes don't know how many thousand photographers to make one superstar photographer.

    whatever you do, you need to work hard, harder then your competitors, persistent, keep doing even most people has already given up. The fruits of your labor won't come easily. Give up hard way you will have noting, so think carefully before you start.

    best of luck.
    People do ask for free shoot even if the demand is higher than supply. People do take their chance and it is nothing wrong to that. It is up to the photographer to provide or simply say NO to it.

    As the entry point getting lower and lower, you will see more people offer their service at a loss to get a portfolio and some stuck there.

    One thing one has to understand is, once you change your price point, there will be a shift in clientele, meaning losing some clients and gaining a little more.

    Promotion is good for short term for long term, it will do more harm then good. It should not be used as a tool for monetary gain as the more promo you do, the lesser take up rate for your service. Remember photography is not a need, it is a luxury so be sure to plan well.

    Photography as a hobby still present you with the best alternative to enjoy the activity.

    Hart

  20. #40

    Default Re: Photographer's wages according to ecarrers.sg

    $1300 is really low siah, maybe waiter earns more leh!

    But might be right for some places, coz I remember speaking to one Malaysian wedding photog on full time employment for a local bridal studio, his pay around $1600 to $1700.

    A freelancer can earn more.
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