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Thread: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

  1. #61

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    By the way, Robert Mugabe (who is not well loved by his citizens) in coming to Singapore for eye medical treatment. Wow - all the way from Africa. Our eye doctors must be good.
    Or pricey
    I think the most disappointing part is that we expect doctors to have a high ethical standard, and it turns out that some of them are just money sucking monsters. I understand that everyone need to make a living, but don't you think 26 mil is too much already?

  2. #62

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by hanzohattori View Post
    Or pricey
    I think the most disappointing part is that we expect doctors to have a high ethical standard, and it turns out that some of them are just money sucking monsters. I understand that everyone need to make a living, but don't you think 26 mil is too much already?
    the hippocratic oath is "to do no harm" to the patient. not the patient's wallet. remember that xD

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by plsoong View Post
    like that must as well i chup in and KPKB also how come the REAL people slogging our asses off in the labs doing 24/7 until kee siao are not helming the team and also paid more than the docs?

    ultimately oncology is still in its RESEARCH INFANCY, so y aren't RESEARCHERS paid more ? rather, even scientists armed with PhDs and a couple of years or work experience, making ground breaking research (so that the medical dudes can test and use to treat patients) the income is still meagre and less than an exponentially increasing pay of a basic MBBS after the same years of working.

    sigh........welcome to the world of murky, dirty MEDICAL politics....
    Hi, understand you have had your own experience, but every job has its ups and downs. That's just how it is.

    Social workers would have a lot more to complain as well, when you think about it.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Maybe if this thing turns ugly and is all over the news, it may backfire... ....i.e. a royal family is somehow, indirectly shamed.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    In SG usually people can get away with things if you belong to one of the following:

    1) U r filthy rich
    2) U r female

    She is both so chances are she won't be charged anything at all.
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  6. #66

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Hi, understand you have had your own experience, but every job has its ups and downs. That's just how it is.

    Social workers would have a lot more to complain as well, when you think about it.
    yes, every job has its ups and downs...and what i typed is not just my own experiences but a compilation of pent up emotions from many other researchers too, so don't take it as personal comments.

    granted that all "downs" are equals and that there are always "ups"...... the call is for basic respect and fair renumeration within the same area ... aka "HEALTH" systems.

    Hence, it will be difficult to compare which is more fair say between a banker and a hawker, or a architect and an engineer.

    a Medical doctor and a PhD doctor are within the same "area". Both are heavily involved in improving lives and public health. The Medical doctor depends heavily on the newest breakthroughs in science generated by the PhDs and of course will be the one following the treatment of the patients etc.

    a sick scientist depend on a medical doctor to prescribe drugs (which is discovered by scientists, produced by pharmaceutical companies, sold to medics and to the general public) to alleviate his/her symptoms of illness.

    isn't it ironical to the point of ridiculousness that the salary scales between these 2 WITHIN THE SAME fields are already so imbalanced???

    hence, knowing the exhorbitant charges levied by various medical specialists.....its not a new thing...... but such scenarios will never go away...because some people at the tops just do not want to make a radical stance to impose measures to make the salaries more equal.
    Last edited by plsoong; 5th March 2011 at 09:23 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    the hippocratic oath is "to do no harm" to the patient. not the patient's wallet. remember that xD

    they should re-term it hypocritic oath.....

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    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/berita.../message/37817

    One member of family fritters $15 Billion (US dollars, mind you) on ....(read article). While now there is so much angst over $24.8 Million (Sing dollars) - although apparently inflated bill for medical treatment of another family member. My maths not so good. Can someone please calculate what fraction 24.8 Million Sing$ is when divided by $15 Billion US$? I think a Billion is 1,000 Million. A bit hard to understand the reluctance to pay. Likewise we do not understand towkay who cut his staff's pay or retrench some workers...and the same towkay goes to nightclub and throws $$$$$$$$ on the nightclub singer in one night.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 6th March 2011 at 12:31 AM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/berita.../message/37817

    One member of family fritters $15 Billion (US dollars, mind you) on ....(read article). While now there is so much angst over $24.8 Million (Sing dollars) - although apparently inflated bill for medical treatment of another family member. My maths not so good. Can someone please calculate what fraction 24.8 Million Sing$ is when divided by $15 Billion US$? I think a Billion is 1,000 Million. A bit hard to understand the reluctance to pay. Likewise we do not understand towkay who cut his staff's pay or retrench some workers...and the same towkay goes to nightclub and throws $$$$$$$$ on the nightclub singer in one night.
    dragging up an over 10 year old case...your point being? they might have an over-indulgent lifestyle, but they also return what they earn to the people.

    having the prince just throw away everything was most likely an eye-opener for them. what's to say, that they got cheesed off that something like this happened again?

  10. #70

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by ninelives View Post
    i thought this only happen in China? USA? seriously? i thought they got all kinds of welfare?
    if i did not remember wrongly.. such cases happened in London also.. due to money.. and space constraints in hospitals..

  11. #71

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    After reading the thread, few observations if i may

    1. When newspaper come out someone earning $$$$$$$$$$$$. Singaporean will get "green eyes". How much she charge does it matter? she is not a nobody in Singapore, she famous. And that what she worth.

    2. 24 million to the royal family is nothing as we all know how rich their country is.

    3. If you read the newspaper and court session. It internal fight between doctors, not the royal family and Dr Susan (SMC Vs Susan).

    4. Do you think the royal family want to be label "cheapskate" in the newspaper.

    5. How much "mark up" is the right amount?????? I know a Commercial Photographer that earn 5 to 6 digit per assignment. Is that mark up?????? That what he is worth if companies want his services.

    In Singapore, everything is inflated. From minister pay to hawker food. If you are in her shoe, how much will you charge them?? We can easily say that people have taken this oath and that oath but we always forget. They are human also. Who don't want to earn more money so that they can retire comfortably in Singapore?

    Like some people always write.

    Just my "2"4 million cents

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Maybe royal family did not expect all this to spill out all over the news. It is not good PR.
    10 years ago the US dollar exchange rate was even higher than it is today and US$15Billion was $28 Billion Aussie dollars.
    It does not matter whether it was 10 years ago or yesterday when that size of money is frittered.
    The point is while one tolerates wasting on frivolous things over a long period of time on one hand but one the other hand is tight fisted (asking for discount by a state official) on a life and death matter (literally) in a medical struggle to save a member of the family (but alas could not).
    Given that no one likes to be overcharged, it is still an unknown whether there was or was not an agreement upfront on the amount payable.
    If there was, then if the doctor chooses to reveal it at the very last, after all this news is orchestrated by others, then it may be devastating to the image of the royal family.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 6th March 2011 at 10:01 AM.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by plsoong View Post
    yes, every job has its ups and downs...and what i typed is not just my own experiences but a compilation of pent up emotions from many other researchers too, so don't take it as personal comments.

    granted that all "downs" are equals and that there are always "ups"...... the call is for basic respect and fair renumeration within the same area ... aka "HEALTH" systems.

    Hence, it will be difficult to compare which is more fair say between a banker and a hawker, or a architect and an engineer.

    a Medical doctor and a PhD doctor are within the same "area". Both are heavily involved in improving lives and public health. The Medical doctor depends heavily on the newest breakthroughs in science generated by the PhDs and of course will be the one following the treatment of the patients etc.

    a sick scientist depend on a medical doctor to prescribe drugs (which is discovered by scientists, produced by pharmaceutical companies, sold to medics and to the general public) to alleviate his/her symptoms of illness.

    isn't it ironical to the point of ridiculousness that the salary scales between these 2 WITHIN THE SAME fields are already so imbalanced???

    hence, knowing the exhorbitant charges levied by various medical specialists.....its not a new thing...... but such scenarios will never go away...because some people at the tops just do not want to make a radical stance to impose measures to make the salaries more equal.
    You analyze too much already. The world does not work that way. You should know. No point justifying.

    If money is your main attraction, you should never be a researcher.

    Between a researcher and a doctor, definitely I would say a doctor gets more recognition by the public and more respected also. That's natural cos they are the ones who deal with patients directly.

    Tell me, between an Formula 1 driver and a Ferrari engineer who designed some top notch engine, which one gets more money and recognition? Of course the driver. Between a Hollywood actor and director, which one gets more recognition and adulation? Of course the actor.

    Doctors are also human beings. And money is an attractive devil. Everyone wants money. Look at how many other fellow doctors support Susan Lim. Why? Cos they also want money.

    Even the ex Prime Minister of Singapore's wife asserted bluntly that TT Durai's $600,000 salary was peanuts. Why? Cos she also wants money so needed justification that the amount is nothing to her.

  14. #74
    Senior Member edutilos-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by plsoong View Post
    isn't it ironical to the point of ridiculousness that the salary scales between these 2 WITHIN THE SAME fields are already so imbalanced???

    hence, knowing the exhorbitant charges levied by various medical specialists.....its not a new thing...... but such scenarios will never go away...because some people at the tops just do not want to make a radical stance to impose measures to make the salaries more equal.
    Hello, please look at construction worker and architect, isn't there also a huge amount of disparity?

    Do note, the medical doctor does take a lot more responsibility - i.e. direct responsibility when the patient's life is at stake.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by Priscilia View Post
    You analyze too much already. The world does not work that way. You should know. No point justifying.

    If money is your main attraction, you should never be a researcher.

    Between a researcher and a doctor, definitely I would say a doctor gets more recognition by the public and more respected also. That's natural cos they are the ones who deal with patients directly.

    Tell me, between an Formula 1 driver and a Ferrari engineer who designed some top notch engine, which one gets more money and recognition? Of course the driver. Between a Hollywood actor and director, which one gets more recognition and adulation? Of course the actor.

    Doctors are also human beings. And money is an attractive devil. Everyone wants money. Look at how many other fellow doctors support Susan Lim. Why? Cos they also want money.

    Even the ex Prime Minister of Singapore's wife asserted bluntly that TT Durai's $600,000 salary was peanuts. Why? Cos she also wants money so needed justification that the amount is nothing to her.

    Obviously u didn't understand the stance....Researchers are not after fame. and did i ever mention that this was my opinion alone or have i mentioned how much we should be getting? Please do not just assume.

    there's a very fine line between the great disparity of salary scales across various disciplines and that is normal. However, within the same umbrella, there should be a more equal and balanced salary scale.


    Lets take you on your Hollywood scenario. The actor gets more money than the director, but a successful film is also widely recognized as the whole team effort, esp the directors vision/cinematography eg. Tim burton, Steven spielberg, Tom hanks etc..... AND the directors do not get THAT little in terms of salary scale disparities.

    Very simple put, no director, no actor, no film.

    synonymously, no researchers, no drugs, no cure...... (not that all are 10000% perfect yet).


    if Singapore really wants to be a true cutting edge Biomedical hub in this region or the world, she has to learn to break away from her past practices and start learning to give decent and fair p(l)aying fields for both researchers and medical doctors. Within these 2 branches, each will need to respect and ACKNOWLEDGE the unique contributions of each discipline...and when you have a similar payscale for both disciplines, you will naturally attract people who will be real to themselves and their passion, i.e. true interest in rendering public health services or true interest in discovering new genes/drugs.

    Right now there's a huge number of people who want to become doctors solely because they know that in Singapore, doctors can charge like crazy and get rich...esp in private practise. Even in general hospitals, the amount they earn, the perks will be more or less allow them to be rather comfortable in life.

    There's a small and slowly increasing amount of people who first initially thought that research was their cup of tea because they were really passionate (for eg) about trying to find the next step in understanding cancer and discovering new forms of drugs, only to find out that they'll just be another work horse and these talented people are leaving (some already left) the field. Such real life stories will never be covered in the papers in Singapore. So as more and more such LOCAL TALENTS leave the field, we try to fill the void with FOREIGN TALENTS (which we could have paid well too to retain our own talents), and it is no wonder that most Singaporeans shun away from really pursuing their interest in research.

    So, if you're not within the same field, please do not jump into assumptions that people like me analyze too much.
    Last edited by plsoong; 6th March 2011 at 08:08 PM.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by edutilos- View Post
    Hello, please look at construction worker and architect, isn't there also a huge amount of disparity?

    Do note, the medical doctor does take a lot more responsibility - i.e. direct responsibility when the patient's life is at stake.
    did you read the previous entries? if so, your first comment is already washed. Hence, please read the previous postings before just jumping the gun.

    of course a medical doctor takes ALot more responsibility when dealing with a patient (EVEN THOUGH IT MAY NOT BE HIS/HER LIFE at stake)

    then again, researchers do take alot of responsibility to ensure that they are not exposed to a single viral infective dose that could just kill him and others too....

    point being, it is already not appropriate to weight which job demands more responsibility, and while nobody doubts the fact that EACH JOB demands same or somewhat similar responsibilities, the point of contention is of the huge disparity between wage scales within the same area of discipline/expertise.

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    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by plsoong View Post
    did you read the previous entries? if so, your first comment is already washed. Hence, please read the previous postings before just jumping the gun.

    of course a medical doctor takes ALot more responsibility when dealing with a patient (EVEN THOUGH IT MAY NOT BE HIS/HER LIFE at stake)

    then again, researchers do take alot of responsibility to ensure that they are not exposed to a single viral infective dose that could just kill him and others too....

    point being, it is already not appropriate to weight which job demands more responsibility, and while nobody doubts the fact that EACH JOB demands same or somewhat similar responsibilities, the point of contention is of the huge disparity between wage scales within the same area of discipline/expertise.
    Simple economics, physicians is in high demand. If there isn't a worldwide shortage of such qualified physicians and possibly with millions of them walking around the street looking for an employer, do you think they will still be paid so extensively?

    Not to mention, it can take up to a decade to train a physician in their speciality thus you can't just pop them out of medical school and expect to solve the shortage immediately without factoring proper demographic analysis as conducted by the government into account.

    BTW, this is reality. There are many, many people receiving more salary for seemingly doing less work than you.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 6th March 2011 at 08:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by plsoong View Post
    did you read the previous entries? if so, your first comment is already washed. Hence, please read the previous postings before just jumping the gun.

    of course a medical doctor takes ALot more responsibility when dealing with a patient (EVEN THOUGH IT MAY NOT BE HIS/HER LIFE at stake)

    then again, researchers do take alot of responsibility to ensure that they are not exposed to a single viral infective dose that could just kill him and others too....

    point being, it is already not appropriate to weight which job demands more responsibility, and while nobody doubts the fact that EACH JOB demands same or somewhat similar responsibilities, the point of contention is of the huge disparity between wage scales within the same area of discipline/expertise.
    aiyah..like it or not, it is like that one lor. every profession is the same one .. it's never fair or just.

    you got a choice...stay as a researcher or move on to something else

  19. #79

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Simple economics, physicians is in high demand. If there isn't a worldwide shortage of such qualified physicians and possibly with millions of them walking around the street looking for an employer, do you think they will still be paid so extensively?

    Not to mention, it can take up to a decade to train a physician in their speciality thus you can't just pop them out of medical school and expect to solve the shortage immediately without factoring proper demographic analysis as conducted by the government into account.

    BTW, this is reality. There are many, many people receiving more salary for seemingly doing less work than you.

    LOL.....it takes more than 10 years to become a researcher...and thats possibly limited to 1 aspect of science...

    I hope u understand that the route to becoming a physician/researcher is similar. Both (especially nowadays) are also going to be skilled in surgical proceedings.
    Both have got specialties to develop towards. Both also depend on each other's output and results. Both also takes a bloody long time to graduate.....

    HOWEVER, while 1 can charge MILLIONS for a service rendered, the other isn't allowed to market his/her service....and even so, try asking for ten thousands?.......possibly some ministry will also charge u for asking too much....even though it can never be billed as a service at all...

    so of course, we can be one of those statistical figure that moves with every other wave....or we can choose (in our short lifetimes) to try to make it a little more fair (even if you're the only rock against the waves).

  20. #80

    Default Re: Exhorbitant charges by Dr Susan Lim

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeowww View Post
    aiyah..like it or not, it is like that one lor. every profession is the same one .. it's never fair or just.

    you got a choice...stay as a researcher or move on to something else
    yar i understand and i know that lah...

    but I definitely deplore biased medical politics....and i do worry (as a Singaporean) about how we should encourage our kids..... considering the fact that we should be coming up with more scientific breakthroughs...

    "don't ever go into research ah...coz nobody will pay you for your creativity one...."
    "best is study Medicine, law, Accounting, Banking....coz u will earn enough to have a comfortable life...Engineering?....no point lar....nowadays oso hard to earn enough liao...."
    "dun wan to work in hospital ah? dun worry, as a doctor, can also practise as locum one......still can earn decent amount/hr lah...."



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