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Thread: Middle East...

  1. #41

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    History repeats.

    To be a ruler, you have to be rudeless. Make people fears you, eliminate all your foes who maybe your friends.

    Which ruler is not rudeless?

    Yes, when in power, you want more and to protect what you have you become selfish and so on and......
    Ruthless not rudeless.

    Anyway, revolutionaries make pretty crappy leaders once the revolution is over.
    Just look at Mao, Fidel, Hugo, Kim JI, the mullahs in Iran etc... They had to constantly create new "revolutions" as an excuse to be in power.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Middle East...

    provety is the cause of it.

    when u had people with hungry stomach, they are angry people.

    if u notice them, those middle east countries are poor ones, the rich ones like saudi, uae are okay
    Last edited by Exposure; 24th February 2011 at 03:32 PM.

  3. #43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Exposure
    provety is the cause of it.

    when u had people with hungry stomach, they are angry people.

    if u notice them, those middle east countries are poor ones, the rich ones like saudi, uae are okay
    Actually, the saudis are already clamping down on opposition to prevent any protest from going too far. Many of the saudis are not rich and are at the mercy of the royal family
    hasta la justicia siempre

  4. #44

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    Ruthless not rudeless.

    Anyway, revolutionaries make pretty crappy leaders once the revolution is over.
    Just look at Mao, Fidel, Hugo, Kim JI, the mullahs in Iran etc... They had to constantly create new "revolutions" as an excuse to be in power.
    TQ bros for correction. Appreciate it.

    Right. It is an excuse for the Central Govt to declare marshal law which put the control in the hand of the army and usually they are loyal to the leader.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by Exposure View Post
    provety is the cause of it.

    when u had people with hungry stomach, they are angry people.

    if u notice them, those middle east countries are poor ones, the rich ones like saudi, uae are okay
    On the contrary, there are a lot of poverty in Saudi. Bahrain is also rich but is divided between the minority richer Sunni muslims and the majority poorer Shitte muslims. It remains to be seen if it is hungry stomachs, democracy that drives these demonstration.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    On the contrary, there are a lot of poverty in Saudi. Bahrain is also rich but is divided between the minority richer Sunni muslims and the majority poorer Shitte muslims. It remains to be seen if it is hungry stomachs, democracy that drives these demonstration.
    At the end of the day, it is the distribution of wealth.

    If leader don't share, everybody else is poor.

    I was once in a 3rd world country, people has nothing to do. many of them stand watching a piling. And for those who work, they carry the bricks on their heads, maybe 5 at a time to the site.

    They built road with bricks and all the way from a town to the airport which is about 10km away and 9 metre in width.

    For the rich, my host, he pointed to a pole and told us that the land after the pole was his. We had to travel another 5km to reach his house. We were served with silver spoons.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    not only middle east ..
    China too .. but the authorities took measures quickly :-)
    The "Jasmine Revolution" right? Sometimes I dont know why people want to challenge the current Chinese govt, disrupting the current prosperity and strong economy. True that sometimes things are not going according to plans but who would like to see China to engage in civil war again? If that were to be happened, the west would be most happy. Sometimes, a system that works for a certain country does not work for this country. Mainland China had its democracy period too, but the KMT regime were hard heartened and people suffered. The poor were even poorer and the govt even had to resort to using people's donation to buy weapons for war with the invading then Japanese. True, the current system that Chinese govt adopt might seem too one party but the peace it has achieved over the past 60 odd years is not easy. The Chinese govt, although CPC still in power, but the party isnt just one man's rule like what is in North Korea.

    People do not 'think about the hard times when they are having good times'... In Chinese, we refer this as "居安思危". Should there be a civil war again in China would result in serious economy downfall of Asian markets and regional security.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Middle East...

    The trouble is that we cannot make everybody happy. if we can satisfy 75% of the polulation, we are great.

    The western countries had gone thru their time and now they are imposing those values they think are good for a country not knowing that their ways of doing thing is not suitable all. It is not obe size fit all!

  9. #49

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by hanqiang1011 View Post
    The "Jasmine Revolution" right? Sometimes I dont know why people want to challenge the current Chinese govt, disrupting the current prosperity and strong economy. True that sometimes things are not going according to plans but who would like to see China to engage in civil war again? If that were to be happened, the west would be most happy. Sometimes, a system that works for a certain country does not work for this country. Mainland China had its democracy period too, but the KMT regime were hard heartened and people suffered. The poor were even poorer and the govt even had to resort to using people's donation to buy weapons for war with the invading then Japanese. True, the current system that Chinese govt adopt might seem too one party but the peace it has achieved over the past 60 odd years is not easy. The Chinese govt, although CPC still in power, but the party isnt just one man's rule like what is in North Korea.

    People do not 'think about the hard times when they are having good times'... In Chinese, we refer this as "居安思危". Should there be a civil war again in China would result in serious economy downfall of Asian markets and regional security.
    Whoa, China gov supporter ah?

    What you say is simply asking the people to give up liberty and accept repression for the sake of stability? Some people can, some people cannot la. Both side is neither right or wrong. These are just differences of gov. But it is a natural processes where we, as individual, would want rights and liberty to be equal among us.

    Do not be easily fooled by media/propaganda messages of prosperity and economy grow. As these may mean little to the populace, and some of these are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by lenrek View Post
    Whoa, China gov supporter ah?

    What you say is simply asking the people to give up liberty and accept repression for the sake of stability? Some people can, some people cannot la. Both side is neither right or wrong. These are just differences of gov. But it is a natural processes where we, as individual, would want rights and liberty to be equal among us.

    Do not be easily fooled by media/propaganda messages of prosperity and economy grow. As these may mean little to the populace, and some of these are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    Independence reports don't fool.

    It is a matter of time that China becomes the world first by 2020?

    Beside Japan, China is the other Asian they fear. They have the G20.. just take a look, how many Asia country is in.

    There were 2 ... NATO and WARSAW. Now none.. good to have a balance of power with China coming in.

    Next to watch is India... and Russia is returning.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Middle East...

    Someone continue to kill his citizens. Europe + US dare not do anything. Sent a navy ship there - so what?
    This will continue for some time while UN makes some noises. Then maybe Iran will make its move to send in troops and be the hero and saviour of the Libyan people, when the West, Europe + USA did nothing. Once Iran does that, Europe and USA will panic - because they lost the chance when they had it. Then all of a sudden, Europe and USA also want to rush in their troops to "save" the Libyan people. Because all are afraid that if a new Libyan regime is created and friendly to Iran and hostile to the West (because it did nothing to save and protect Libyans from being killed); then Europe and USA worry about OIL.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 3rd March 2011 at 11:21 PM.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Someone continue to kill his citizens. Europe + US dare not do anything. Sent a navy ship there - so what?
    This will continue for some time while UN makes some noises. Then maybe Iran will make its move to send in troops and be the hero and saviour of the Libyan people, when the West, Europe + USA did nothing. Once Iran does that, Europe and USA will panic - because they lost the chance when they had it. Then all of a sudden, Europe and USA also want to rush in their troops to "save" the Libyan people. Because all are afraid that if a new Libyan regime is created and friendly to Iran and hostile to the West (because it did nothing to save and protect Libyans from being killed); then Europe and USA worry about OIL.
    Another Vietnam, Afa or Iran or... they claim to be super power but what happen now? They just wanted to keep clear if possible just hoping for miracle to happen. To help(invade) or not...?

  13. #53

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Someone continue to kill his citizens. Europe + US dare not do anything. Sent a navy ship there - so what?
    This will continue for some time while UN makes some noises. Then maybe Iran will make its move to send in troops and be the hero and saviour of the Libyan people, when the West, Europe + USA did nothing. Once Iran does that, Europe and USA will panic - because they lost the chance when they had it. Then all of a sudden, Europe and USA also want to rush in their troops to "save" the Libyan people. Because all are afraid that if a new Libyan regime is created and friendly to Iran and hostile to the West (because it did nothing to save and protect Libyans from being killed); then Europe and USA worry about OIL.
    The US is already bogged-down in an unpopular war in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. The EU has always been indecisive.
    Highly doubt the Libyans would want to turn their country into a theocracy ala Iran.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    The US is already bogged-down in an unpopular war in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. The EU has always been indecisive.
    Highly doubt the Libyans would want to turn their country into a theocracy ala Iran.
    Maybe we should ask ourself.. who is supporting the rebel in Libya the Iran? Iraq or ?????? they need weapon and food!

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Middle East...

    Gaddafi is clever.
    In his televised speech, he made clear that he is anti-Al-Qaeda. That he regards the protesters as misguided followers of it.
    He referred to countries like India, China, etc that supported the UN resolution as friends. He said when Libya checked, these countries said - they cannot help it since even your Libyan ambassador told us to do so. So he put the blame on his ambassadors and called them traitors. He did not blame these countries.
    He said Obama was a good man but maybe misinformed by his advisers.

    So the message to USA and Europe is this:
    Look, I am on your side - we are all Anti-Al Qaeda and Anti-extremist.
    Are you sure you want to see me deposed and replaced by a theocracy that is anti-West and greatly influenced by Al-Qaeda and the "brotherhood" and Iran?
    Just give me some time to wipe out these protesters.
    We can be friends again.
    I still regard you as friends.
    Libyan oil can still be sold to you after I put down this protest.
    After this, we can still do multi-billion $$$ business.
    (Your big oil companies will like it. They may be top contributors to your election campaign funds.)
    Just leave us alone at this time.
    This is an internal affair of my country Libya.

    The pressure is not on USA and Europe to act.
    The pressure is now on Iran and the "brotherhood".
    If the protests fizzle out, then it may likewise affect Bahrain, Egypt and Yemen and though Mubarak and Tunisia's leader are gone, the people who replace him may be just the same as before - i.e. pro-West.
    So maybe USA and Europe will wait and do nothing besides making some token televised 30 second soundbites of comment on Libya - that is all. There will be no action whatsoever. Wait and see how Iran and Brotherhood reacts.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Hi ricohflex,

    Did not quote your anaylsis. Sound logical and very interesting. It appears that he is winning some and lose some. At the end of the day, the West and those depend heavily on the middle east oil do not want this to happen.

    Do you think Obama is too quick to denounce Gaddafi? Should he not wait for the situation to stablise? Who knows, Gaddafi may win the struggle and back to his old day. Recently he had actually mellowed. So who is behind the scene?

  17. #57

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Remember that Gaddafi and by extension Libya was until recently a pariah state and branded as a state-sponsor of terrorism (Lockerbie bombing etc).
    Bush Sr. even ordered an air-strike against him which missed.

    Again, I am skeptical about Iran and the "brotherhood"'s (by which you mean the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt right?) influence.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by cks2k2 View Post
    Remember that Gaddafi and by extension Libya was until recently a pariah state and branded as a state-sponsor of terrorism (Lockerbie bombing etc).
    Bush Sr. even ordered an air-strike against him which missed.

    Again, I am skeptical about Iran and the "brotherhood"'s (by which you mean the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt right?) influence.
    Just like some of the leaders, they like to go against US to show that they do not 'Kow tow' to super power. He just wanted to be popular and maybe the big brother. It did not work so for $$$ sake, he decided to play low profile and just 'follow the wind'!

  19. #59

    Default Re: Middle East...

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Gaddafi is clever.
    In his televised speech, he made clear that he is anti-Al-Qaeda. That he regards the protesters as misguided followers of it.
    He referred to countries like India, China, etc that supported the UN resolution as friends. He said when Libya checked, these countries said - they cannot help it since even your Libyan ambassador told us to do so. So he put the blame on his ambassadors and called them traitors. He did not blame these countries.
    He said Obama was a good man but maybe misinformed by his advisers.

    So the message to USA and Europe is this:
    Look, I am on your side - we are all Anti-Al Qaeda and Anti-extremist.
    Are you sure you want to see me deposed and replaced by a theocracy that is anti-West and greatly influenced by Al-Qaeda and the "brotherhood" and Iran?
    Just give me some time to wipe out these protesters.
    We can be friends again.
    I still regard you as friends.
    Libyan oil can still be sold to you after I put down this protest.
    After this, we can still do multi-billion $$$ business.
    (Your big oil companies will like it. They may be top contributors to your election campaign funds.)
    Just leave us alone at this time.
    This is an internal affair of my country Libya.

    The pressure is not on USA and Europe to act.
    The pressure is now on Iran and the "brotherhood".
    If the protests fizzle out, then it may likewise affect Bahrain, Egypt and Yemen and though Mubarak and Tunisia's leader are gone, the people who replace him may be just the same as before - i.e. pro-West.
    So maybe USA and Europe will wait and do nothing besides making some token televised 30 second soundbites of comment on Libya - that is all. There will be no action whatsoever. Wait and see how Iran and Brotherhood reacts.
    Interesting analysis.

    However, Gaddafi & his close friend, Chavez are staunchly anti-America. His current stance may be his last ditch effort to garner whatever support he can get...
    hasta la justicia siempre

  20. #60

    Default Re: Middle East...

    however, i doubt the US would want to back any sticky situation right now. remember, it's not just an uprising in one country. it's uprisings in various Muslim countries.

    the US will be smart enough to stay out of any trouble.

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