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Thread: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

  1. #41
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    Just easier viewing for viewers.....

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    Do you mind posting up the EXIF information for these photos?
    That would help a great deal. Also any additional information like whether tripod was used, and so on.

    I don't mean you, SkyStrike...

  2. #42

    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    For night scenary/landscapes, you cannot escape from using a tripod. REALLY, not only is the amount of light for a decent hand hold shutter speed is not there to eliminate hand shakes, it'll be really under exposed even if you do a high shutter speed + high ISO (though you'll get a clear, dark picture). Oh of course, usually you'll want to use a bigger number f stop to get all your details clear and sharp (of course there are exceptions), hence, your shutter speed is going to be slowww... can be quite impossible to hand hold.
    Last edited by xhui; 27th January 2011 at 11:08 AM.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nichz82 View Post
    so usually which shooting a larger area we need to adjust the aperture to a smaller one so we can capture the whole image clearly ? and the challenge is when i look through the viewfinder when shooting at very low light it's hard to judge whether it's clear or not. if i were to use flash, the nissin one came with a white piece of plastic with the difuser is that for light bouncing ?
    Large aperture (e.g. 1.8), you will lose DOF, meaning v.likely only the subject you focus on will be sharp while others will be OOF/Blurred. This depends on the kind of effect you want to create. If you want to create bokeh effect, f1.8 is pretty nice.

    I think that white piece of plastic(diffuser) is to reduce the chance of getting "fatal-frame" effect if the shot is shot directly at the subject as the plastic will soften the flashlight. So you will have a brighter face and not a white one
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  4. #44
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nichz82 View Post
    so usually which shooting a larger area we need to adjust the aperture to a smaller one so we can capture the whole image clearly ? and the challenge is when i look through the viewfinder when shooting at very low light it's hard to judge whether it's clear or not. if i were to use flash, the nissin one came with a white piece of plastic with the difuser is that for light bouncing ?
    just to get it clear:

    if you're taking night landscapes such as the one of Fullerton Hotel over the water, using a flash will have very little, or almost no effect on the photo.
    It would be impossible for your little hotshoe-mounted flash to illuminate a building over 100m away.

    Without looking at the EXIF, I would just have to guess what settings you used. But if you handheld, I would suppose the aperture would be at maximum, and the ISO would be pretty high as well. Those are not ideal settings for landscapes.
    Exploring! :)

  5. #45
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    Large aperture (e.g. 1.8), you will lose DOF, meaning v.likely only the subject you focus on will be sharp while others will be OOF/Blurred. This depends on the kind of effect you want to create. If you want to create bokeh effect, f1.8 is pretty nice.

    I think that white piece of plastic(diffuser) is to reduce the chance of getting "fatal-frame" effect if the shot is shot directly at the subject as the plastic will soften the flashlight. So you will have a brighter face and not a white one
    If you focus on a distant object and use a large aperture (eg. f/1.8), most objects in the scene that are a good distance (eg. > 10m) from you would be pretty sharp. Therefore DOF is not the main factor here.

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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    My apologies on the photos as i'm new in posting images on CS. Those photos taken are without tripods and flash, on f1.8, aperture mode. Lots more to learn when you have more accessories tripod will get soon, have 1 in mind which is 1 of the benro series costing S$198 a bit pricey for me but i believe such investment will last me longer.

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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    If you focus on a distant object and use a large aperture (eg. f/1.8), most objects in the scene that are a good distance (eg. > 10m) from you would be pretty sharp. Therefore DOF is not the main factor here.
    I see....Thanks for helping me have better understanding of larger aperture.
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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    So landscapes at night will prolly need a lower aperture to have a fair DOP and ideally iso should be around 400 with longer exposure (slow shutter speed) with tripods ? The pics I've taken are all with iso 1600, which is the max for my camera.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nichz82 View Post
    My apologies on the photos as i'm new in posting images on CS. Those photos taken are without tripods and flash, on f1.8, aperture mode. Lots more to learn when you have more accessories tripod will get soon, have 1 in mind which is 1 of the benro series costing S$198 a bit pricey for me but i believe such investment will last me longer.
    You might also want to consider Sirui ALU tripod, Check out TK Foto's Facebook for pricing. Quite updated, but if you want to buy, please give them a call to check if stock is available.

    I got my Sirui Travel Tripod for $160, good enough for a beginner with kit lens
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nichz82 View Post
    So landscapes at night will prolly need a lower aperture to have a fair DOP and ideally iso should be around 400 with longer exposure (slow shutter speed) with tripods ? The pics I've taken are all with iso 1600, which is the max for my camera.
    When I take nightscape, I will be on tripod and ISO100 and F22 (probably overkill, since on tripod, shutter speed is not a issue )
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

  11. #51

    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Generally when on a tripod, you won't need to worry about shutter speed (for hand holdable speed), hence ISO you can go lower to maintain a cleaner picture. Actually for scenary, you have the luxury of time. Take your time, even if you are not sure what shutter speed would be appropriate, just try, adjust, try, adjust. Use live view after you've adjusted your angle (tripod), and done your settings. Remember to off your IS/VR when you mount on a tripod as well. Use a remote to really minimise any shakes when you depress that button, but not a must.

    Happy shooting!! (yah, flash doesn't help at all with landscape kind of shots (lighting up the scene is impossible, unless you have a near object in front of the scene for you to light up).
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  12. #52

    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyStrike View Post
    When I take nightscape, I will be on tripod and ISO100 and F22 (probably overkill, since on tripod, shutter speed is not a issue )
    Using f22 will very likely cause diffraction in your images, lowering the IQ of the images produced. Using aperture of f16 and below will lower the appearance of diffraction.

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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    The kind of flash that will work on landscape are those used in the Batman movie.....



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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spree86 View Post
    Using f22 will very likely cause diffraction in your images, lowering the IQ of the images produced. Using aperture of f16 and below will lower the appearance of diffraction.
    Thanks for the info. Will keep that in mind when I go again for night shoots.
    Too many great equipments but too little quality photos. [My Flickr] | [My Blog]

  15. #55
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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nichz82 View Post
    Guy would like to hear some personal opinions from you, I'm with a budget constraint now . . coz i intend get 1 of the 85mm prime lens from our fellow cs-er and now budget rather limited. wanna get a flash and tripod both serve the main purpose of night shoot, but dunno which to get first, hands will shake when i pull my 18-200 lens to the max pics will get blurred so personally i need the tripod. And the build in flash are meant to play "Fatal Frame" which blast every da*m picture to become white and not as warm. I'm in a fix, hope to get more opinions on this so i can think through before i made my plunge . . thank you.
    Personally, I would say tripod first.

    Firstly, you had a pop up flash.
    Secondly, low light and be compensated by using larger aperture or longer exposure and longer exposure require a tripod, of course, I am talking about stationary subjects.
    For myself, tripod is the next thing that would naturally comes to mind when "night" is mentioned.

  16. #56
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nichz82 View Post
    So landscapes at night will prolly need a lower aperture to have a fair DOP and ideally iso should be around 400 with longer exposure (slow shutter speed) with tripods ? The pics I've taken are all with iso 1600, which is the max for my camera.
    I feel that it is better to understand the reasons why you choose certain setting, rather than try to remember that night scenery = low iso + tripod + ______ and so on.

    For landscapes, I would go to the base ISO setting (on my D90 it is ISO200, on some cameras it might be ISO100) and make sure the support (eg tripod) is very stable. Reason for using base ISO is to have the maximum dynamic range being recorded, and minimize the amount of noise in the image.
    Remote shutter release and mirror lock-up are additional steps that can be taken to minimize the risk of vibrations affecting image sharpness, so would turning off IS/VR/SSS when camera is mounted on tripod.
    Exploring! :)

  17. #57

    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    I feel that it is better to understand the reasons why you choose certain setting, rather than try to remember that night scenery = low iso + tripod + ______ and so on.

    For landscapes, I would go to the base ISO setting (on my D90 it is ISO200, on some cameras it might be ISO100) and make sure the support (eg tripod) is very stable. Reason for using base ISO is to have the maximum dynamic range being recorded, and minimize the amount of noise in the image.
    Remote shutter release and mirror lock-up are additional steps that can be taken to minimize the risk of vibrations affecting image sharpness, so would turning off IS/VR/SSS when camera is mounted on tripod.
    Yup. Also one thing to note is that base ISO is not always the lowest ISO possible to be selected on the camera. On Nikons where the base ISO is 200 (not all Nikons have base ISO at 200 though), selecting ISO 100 which reads Lo1 will not give more dynamic range than 200. In fact it may even decrease the dynamic range captured.

  18. #58

    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post

    For landscapes, I would go to the base ISO setting (on my D90 it is ISO200, on some cameras it might be ISO100) and make sure the support (eg tripod) is very stable. Reason for using base ISO is to have the maximum dynamic range being recorded, and minimize the amount of noise in the image.
    Remote shutter release and mirror lock-up are additional steps that can be taken to minimize the risk of vibrations affecting image sharpness, so would turning off IS/VR/SSS when camera is mounted on tripod.
    now I know why my night scenery are blur even I've used a tripod & self timer mode. I've missout some step, mirror lock-up & off the VR.

    Thx for the info.
    *Newbie* D90 with 18-105mm

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholson77

    now I know why my night scenery are blur even I've used a tripod & self timer mode. I've missout some step, mirror lock-up & off the VR.

    Thx for the info.
    No prob. Hope it helps!
    Another reason could be inaccurate focus. You using AF for night scenery?
    I prefer manual focus, but MF with something like a kit lens is not very precise.
    Exploring! :)

  20. #60

    Default Re: In a dilemma . . tripod or flash first ?

    If you are not sure what kind of photography genre you are into, you can get both.

    Get the most bang for buck tripod, Fancier FT-6662A + Yong Nuo YN460 Flash (Full Manual). with these, you can start exploring strobe and landscape.

    Total damage should be around $130-$140. Its cheaper to get the YN460 off ebay.

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