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Thread: Whats wrong with Hoya HMC?

  1. #21
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    Oh dear, I wasn't trying to give any advice. What I was trying to do was to understand what u guys were trying to say by putting it in my own words. I guess I failed since I probably don't understand what NDs are about. I would like to find out more and how they are used and what their effects that's why I am in this thread. Thanks!

  2. #22
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    The little that I know about NDs is that they reduce the amount of light entering into the camera by a certain amount depending on the rating. I havea Minolta filter list which lists 3 NDs of differing reductions of light. If all the ND does is to reduce light, then what kind of situation would warrant its use? What other uses then does it have then?

  3. #23
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    Originally posted by TME
    The little that I know about NDs is that they reduce the amount of light entering into the camera by a certain amount depending on the rating. I havea Minolta filter list which lists 3 NDs of differing reductions of light. If all the ND does is to reduce light, then what kind of situation would warrant its use? What other uses then does it have then?
    Yes, the sole purpose is to reduce light coming into the camera. But it will not give you a darker picture coz the camera will compensate for it. Why use it? Some scenarios are as follows:

    1. You want to get a silky effect when shooting waterfalls
    To get a silky waterfall, you will need a slow shutter speed of at least 1/2s or more, depending on the water flow speed. On a bright day, even on ISO 100 and at f/22, you might get a shutter speed of something like 1/8s. With a 3-stop ND filter, you can lower it to 1s.

    2. You want to fill flash on a bright day
    On a bright day, at your chosen ISO and aperture, you might find that the shutter speed is more than your maximum flash sync speed (e.g. 1/125). Using an ND lets you maintain that chosen aperture and lower the shutter speed to the max flash sync speed and below.

    Regards
    CK

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Whats wrong with Hoya HMC?

    Originally posted by erwinx
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...&threadid=6855
    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...&threadid=7987

    Since I'm using Hoya HMC all the way, can someone tell me whats wrong with Hoya HMC?

    Oh no... getting 'finger paralysis syndrome' already... must replace Hoya with B+W....
    About the only times the average photographer will need an SHMC over an HMC is if they are shooting constantly in to the sun as they have slightly better flare resistance, or if you need a thin profile filter ring due to vignetting of the lens when wide open.

    However, the apt term wankeritis applies to many amateurs who rush out and purchase top of the range filters for their lenses, as it merely demonstrates their inherant lack of understanding of optics and filtration.

    As for B+W ... well I'm guilty of owning a few of them, all of which are fitted to MF and LF lenses, however apart from their brass rings they aren't any better optically than Hoya, Nikon etc.
    Last edited by Ian; 15th June 2002 at 04:07 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Hahaha.....I bought a SHMC cos the shop didn't have any HMCs. And I didn't want to go somewhere else to buy cos I was in a rush.....so that's my reason for buying a SHMC. Although I have ever taken a look at a SHMC and a HMC together and have seen that the degree of reflection from the SHMC is noticeably less. But what that translates into I am not quite sure. Afterall, I still get lens flare when the sun is very strong even with a huge hood that comes with the Tamron 24-135mm. The lens flare is noticeable but not that bad. I guess I can live with it.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Whats wrong with Hoya HMC?

    Originally posted by ckiang


    Oh yes. I should be getting that Leica M7 with a Summilux R 50mm f1.4, load Tech Pan, then mount the whole thing on a hefty Gitzo tripod with AcraSwiss head. Oh yes, and don't forget the B+W filter on the Summilux.

    Good. Now, where's the $$$.....
    before u get the $$$, u probably need to realise:

    1) Summilux R 50 f1.4 will NOT mount on an M7. That one's for the Leica R SLR cameras, not the M series rangefinders.

    2) I've never heard of anyone putting a filter of any kind on a Summilux
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  7. #27
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    Originally posted by ckiang


    Yes, the sole purpose is to reduce light coming into the camera. But it will not give you a darker picture coz the camera will compensate for it. Why use it? Some scenarios are as follows:

    1. You want to get a silky effect when shooting waterfalls
    To get a silky waterfall, you will need a slow shutter speed of at least 1/2s or more, depending on the water flow speed. On a bright day, even on ISO 100 and at f/22, you might get a shutter speed of something like 1/8s. With a 3-stop ND filter, you can lower it to 1s.

    2. You want to fill flash on a bright day
    On a bright day, at your chosen ISO and aperture, you might find that the shutter speed is more than your maximum flash sync speed (e.g. 1/125). Using an ND lets you maintain that chosen aperture and lower the shutter speed to the max flash sync speed and below.

    Regards
    CK
    I see, so NDs are rather specialized I guess. BTW, I still don't understand the sync flash thing and how to get it on my camera - a 505si. What I understand it to be is that the flash syncs with the shutter such that the flash fires only after the shutter has opened unlike the usual fill flash where the flash fires as the shutter opens? Is that correct? I have a button that says spot on the back of the camera. But that is for spot metering. But whenever it is depressed as I spot metered something then shoot, the shutter speed drops really low and then the flash triggers. Is that sync flash fill? My flash sync is 1/125. Is it bec my flash sync speed is not high enough so it slowed the shutter speed tto compensate? I really wonder how to use this feature.

    Thanks!

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whats wrong with Hoya HMC?

    Originally posted by Red Dawn


    before u get the $$$, u probably need to realise:

    1) Summilux R 50 f1.4 will NOT mount on an M7. That one's for the Leica R SLR cameras, not the M series rangefinders.

    2) I've never heard of anyone putting a filter of any kind on a Summilux
    Thou shalt not lust after a Leica. Period.

    Incidentally, that was what turned up when I searched "Best Leica Lens" on google.com.

    Regards
    CK

  9. #29
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    Originally posted by TME


    I see, so NDs are rather specialized I guess. BTW, I still don't understand the sync flash thing and how to get it on my camera - a 505si. What I understand it to be is that the flash syncs with the shutter such that the flash fires only after the shutter has opened unlike the usual fill flash where the flash fires as the shutter opens? Is that correct? I have a button that says spot on the back of the camera. But that is for spot metering. But whenever it is depressed as I spot metered something then shoot, the shutter speed drops really low and then the flash triggers. Is that sync flash fill? My flash sync is 1/125. Is it bec my flash sync speed is not high enough so it slowed the shutter speed tto compensate? I really wonder how to use this feature.

    Thanks!
    The camera will always fire the flash regardless of shutter speed. It can be fired when the shutter opens, or when it's about to close (known as front/1st curtain and rear/2nd curtain sync respectively). For 1st curtain, flash always fires AFTER the shutter is open, no point firing when the shutter is not fully open.

    You probably have auto-flash turned on. So when you happen to spot something dark, it will drop below what the camera thinks is "acceptable light levels" and turns on the flash. This is probably normal. This is no "sync flash fill", there's no such turn afaik.

    Regards
    CK

  10. #30
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    Originally posted by erwinx
    What does 'ND' stand for? And why is it only 'good NDs' (whatever that is) will cut out the harsh light? You mean the cheaper ones cannot?


    In some ND filters (like Cokin), the glass isn't really "neutral gray" and so the color may be effected. If the ND filter matches the neutral calibration of the film (18% gray?) then there will be no effect on the photo itself, only the exposure.

  11. #31
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    Originally posted by OpenLens


    In some ND filters (like Cokin), the glass isn't really "neutral gray" and so the color may be effected. If the ND filter matches the neutral calibration of the film (18% gray?) then there will be no effect on the photo itself, only the exposure.
    Hate to say this but your repy is highly erronious.

    Neutral density filters attenuate all wavelengths of light evenly in a well constructed filter.

    Colour cast is induced when a ND filter fails to attenuate all wavelengths evenly as is the case with Cokin ND filters.

    There is no such thing as 'neutral' calibration of film in the manner that you seem to ellude to.

    I think you are confusing how a light meter works with film density measurement which are two entirely different creatures.
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  12. #32
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    Originally posted by ckiang


    The camera will always fire the flash regardless of shutter speed. It can be fired when the shutter opens, or when it's about to close (known as front/1st curtain and rear/2nd curtain sync respectively). For 1st curtain, flash always fires AFTER the shutter is open, no point firing when the shutter is not fully open.

    You probably have auto-flash turned on. So when you happen to spot something dark, it will drop below what the camera thinks is "acceptable light levels" and turns on the flash. This is probably normal. This is no "sync flash fill", there's no such turn afaik.

    Regards
    CK

    So what exactly is flash sync then? What happens when u activate it? I see this often and even mentioned in my camera manual but I have no idea how to actiivate it or use it or when to use it. No searches on the net seem to turn up related documents. Can explain?

    Thanks!

  13. #33
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    Originally posted by TME



    So what exactly is flash sync then? What happens when u activate it? I see this often and even mentioned in my camera manual but I have no idea how to actiivate it or use it or when to use it. No searches on the net seem to turn up related documents. Can explain?

    Thanks!
    The flash sync speed is just the proper speed for use with flash exposures, simple as that. You don't need to "activate" it. Using a higher shutter speed will result in improper/partial exposures as the shutter will not be fully open at the higher shutter speeds. Max flash sync speeds for cameras with focal-plane shutters (like SLRs, the Leica, Bessa etc rangefinders, some MF cameras etc) is usually in the range of 1/60 to 1/250. Some of the more advanced cameras and flash units have a "high speed sync" mode which allows you to sync at higher than the flash sync speed.

    You can go to the library to read up books on flash photography, which should cover these (not so easy for me to explain like that without diagrams, etc). Some of the photography books also cover things like how the shutter works, etc., which makes a good read for understanding of the subject as well.

    Regards
    CK

  14. #34
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    Originally posted by TME

    So what exactly is flash sync then? What happens when u activate it? I see this often and even mentioned in my camera manual but I have no idea how to actiivate it or use it or when to use it. No searches on the net seem to turn up related documents. Can explain?

    Thanks!
    This might help you understand better.
    http://www.chem.helsinki.fi/~toomas/...flash-faq.html
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  15. #35
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    Thanks, the article was very useful. I think I understand my flash better now and also may understand the problem for soe underexposed outdoor shots. It may be due to very high shutter speeds (as the background was very bright giving 1/500 - 1/1000sec) which caused severe underexposure to occur in some cases. In the less severe cases, it is probably a case of the light meter being fooled by the bright background. Or a combination of both perhaps.

  16. #36
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    Originally posted by TME
    Thanks, the article was very useful. I think I understand my flash better now and also may understand the problem for soe underexposed outdoor shots. It may be due to very high shutter speeds (as the background was very bright giving 1/500 - 1/1000sec) which caused severe underexposure to occur in some cases. In the less severe cases, it is probably a case of the light meter being fooled by the bright background. Or a combination of both perhaps.
    Most likely a combination. For flash photography, NEVER use a shutter speed above the max synch speed of your camera. Unless your camera/flash combination has a high-speed sync option.

    Regards
    CK

  17. #37
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    Originally posted by ckiang


    Most likely a combination. For flash photography, NEVER use a shutter speed above the max synch speed of your camera. Unless your camera/flash combination has a high-speed sync option.

    Regards
    CK

    Yupe. I regretted not investing more to buy the 5400xi program flash for Minolta but bought 3500xi. The price difference was $90 and I was prepared to pay but the salesman was not very encouraging then. I didn't know better so too bad. My current sync speed is only 1/125 sec while 5400xi has a HSS of 1/4000. Pity.

  18. #38
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    Originally posted by ckiang


    Most likely a combination. For flash photography, NEVER use a shutter speed above the max synch speed of your camera. Unless your camera/flash combination has a high-speed sync option.

    Regards
    CK
    Do both the camera and flash need to support high-speed sync in order to work? My camera states a high sync speed of 1/1000s.
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    Originally posted by mpenza


    Do both the camera and flash need to support high-speed sync in order to work? My camera states a high sync speed of 1/1000s.
    Yes I think so from what I know. Both the camera and the flash must support HSS. For my 505si, the camera manual states the by using the 5400HS flash, sync speeds can reach 1/4000s. So if your camera manual states 1/1000, then I guess, that is the max it will go even if the flash can sync faster than that.

  20. #40
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    Originally posted by mpenza


    Do both the camera and flash need to support high-speed sync in order to work? My camera states a high sync speed of 1/1000s.
    Yes. Both camera and flash needs to support it. In the high-speed sync mode, the flash is actually many pulses of light as opposed to one big flash. This is because in high shutter speeds, the shutter is never fully open, but a slit which travels across the film plane (2nd curtain closely following the 1st).

    Regards
    CK

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