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Thread: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

  1. #1

    Default Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    2011-01-23 16:57

    SINGAPORE, Sunday 23 January 2011 (AFP) -- Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew has urged local Muslims to "be less strict on Islamic observances" to aid integration and the city-state's nation-building process.

    Singapore has a predominantly Chinese population, with minority races including Muslim Malays and Indians, and Lee has always stressed the importance of racial harmony.

    "I would say today, we can integrate all religions and races except Islam," he said in "Lee Kuan Yew: Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going," a new book containing his typically frank views on the city-state and its future.

    "I think we were progressing very nicely until the surge of Islam came and if you asked me for my observations, the other communities have easier integration -- friends, intermarriages and so on..." he stated.

    "I think the Muslims socially do not cause any trouble, but they are distinct and separate," Lee added, calling on the community to "be less strict on Islamic observances."

    During the book's launch on Friday, the self-described "pragmatist" warned Singaporeans against complacency, saying the largely ethnic Chinese republic was still a nation in the making.

    Describing Singapore in the book as an "80-storey building on marshy land," Lee said it must contend with hostility from larger Muslim neighbours.

    "We've got friendly neighbours? Grow up... There is this drive to put us down because we are interlopers," he said, citing alleged Malaysian and Indonesian efforts to undermine Singapore's crucial port business.

    Singapore was ejected from the Malaysian federation in 1965 in large part due to Kuala Lumpur's preferential policies for ethnic Malays, and has since built up Southeast Asia's most modern military to deter foreign aggression.

    Turning to local politics, Lee said the ruling People's Action Party (***), which has been in power since 1959 when Singapore gained political autonomy from colonial ruler Britain, will someday lose its grip on power.

    "There will come a time when eventually the public will say, look, let's try the other side, either because the *** has declined in quality or the opposition has put up a team which is equal to the ***... That day will come."

    "In the next 10 years to 20 years, I don't think it'll happen. Beyond that, I cannot tell."

    Lee said that despite a survey showing the contrary, he believed Singaporeans were not yet ready for a non-ethnic-Chinese prime minister.

    "A poll says 90 percent of Chinese Singaporeans say they will elect a non-Chinese as PM. Yes, this is the ideal. You believe these polls? Utter rubbish. They say what is politically correct," he stated.

    He also defended the policy of promoting marriage between highly-educated Singaporeans, a policy seen by critics as a form of social engineering, and dismissed the notion of love at first sight.

    "People get educated, the bright ones rise, they marry equally well-educated spouses. The result is their children are likely to be smarter than the children of those who are gardeners," he said.

    "It's a fact of life. You get a good mare, you don't want a dud stallion to breed with your good mare. You get a poor foal."

    People who are "attracted by physical characteristics" may regret it, he said.

    Lee also revealed that he had donated to charity all his earnings of S$13 million ($10 million) since stepping down as prime minister in 1990 after 31 years in power.

    Singapore's cabinet ministers are the highest paid in the world as part of a strategy to prevent corruption and attract talent from the private sector.

    Lee, who holds the special title Minister Mentor, now serves as an adviser to his son Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, who came to power in 2004.

    Amid all the hard-edged talk, Lee showed his tender side when asked about his late wife Kwa Geok Choo, who died aged 89 in October last year.

    "It means more solitude. No one to talk to when the day's work is done," Lee said in the book, the result of exclusive interviews with journalists from the country's leading daily, The Straits Times.

    http://www.mysinchew.com/node/51920
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  2. #2
    Member voxies09's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    discussion regarding politic + religion is not allow here
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    Member koplady11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Before I say my views, moderators, is this thread allowed??
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    Default

    Not long ago he was the one who mentioned that the topic of religion should not be touched. Now he's angered alot of Muslims including myself.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Quote Originally Posted by slipdisq View Post
    Not long ago he was the one who mentioned that the topic of religion should not be touched. Now he's angered alot of Muslims including myself.
    I think that's the point he's trying to make... Most other faiths would just shrug off his comments. Why resort to anger?
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    I believe that this topic can be openly discussed, not debate.

    Not to stir trouble, but since it was already open by Mr Lee, it indirectly allowed people to talk about it. Whether or not CS allowed it is another matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae

    I think that's the point he's trying to make... Most other faiths would just shrug off his comments. Why resort to anger?
    Hey there Mike,

    Can't help but feel angry coz that's my faith he's criticising. I'm sure if he were to tell a certain religion to stop burning and contributing to air pollution for the good of the world, the people of that religion would surely tell him to mind his own business. Just because he's an agnostic doesn't mean we should also compromise our faiths n beliefs.

    I find it contradicting that one moment he says that politics n religion shouldn't mix, but now that's exactly what he's doing.

    Furthermore, with the exception of a few racist black sheeps, racial integration is not much of an issue here in Singapore. How much more integrated does he want us to be? Inter racial marriages for everyone?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    hmmm.... I dont always agree with MM Lee on his point of views.

    Based on the article here, its very blunt but I think he is being honest about the truth.

    Very nice of him to donate all his wages back to the community

  9. #9

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Guess a better way to put it would be that religion has to progress with the society.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering......

  11. #11
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Quote Originally Posted by slipdisq View Post
    Hey there Mike,

    Can't help but feel angry coz that's my faith he's criticising. I'm sure if he were to tell a certain religion to stop burning and contributing to air pollution for the good of the world, the people of that religion would surely tell him to mind his own business. Just because he's an agnostic doesn't mean we should also compromise our faiths n beliefs.

    I find it contradicting that one moment he says that politics n religion shouldn't mix, but now that's exactly what he's doing.

    Furthermore, with the exception of a few racist black sheeps, racial integration is not much of an issue here in Singapore. How much more integrated does he want us to be? Inter racial marriages for everyone?
    in short, he wants muslims to open up and accept other religions instead of keeping within to their own religion.

    by mentioning the certain religion to stop burning, isn't precisely what LKY trying to say?

    I dun want to say this, but those terrorist actions we see from the news in other countries stems from hard core Islam beliefs, isn't it? Just cos they cannot accept other religion and think that Allah is all mighty above all religions. LKY don't want to see this happening in SG (a few such terroists members was detained in SG by ISD, and which religion do they belong to? Buddhism? Taoist? Christianity? No. Its Islam.).

    And why? We are surrounded by muslim countries (malaysia, indonesia). So LKY don't want muslim communities in SG also becoming like other countries (targeted by other terrorists).

    btw this burning is not a daily affair mind you, it only happens a few times in the year. But why not everyone stop driving? I think the drivers contributes much more to air pollution then this occasional burnings.

    Anyway the above is my own view. By nature, i am not a racist person (all those who knew me can vouch for me).

    But seeing slipdisq's reply, i think i got to comment something neutral. There is always a root cause (i dun see buddhism, taoist, christianity terrorism acts but i do hear and see TV reporting Islamic terrorist acts every now and then) to something.
    Last edited by sinned79; 24th January 2011 at 12:45 PM.

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    Senior Member roDz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Quote Originally Posted by slipdisq View Post
    Not long ago he was the one who mentioned that the topic of religion should not be touched. Now he's angered alot of Muslims including myself.
    Im a Muslim...im not angry..he has his ideas...i believe as a Muslim,i have to be strict to the teachings...but open to ideas...ideas that dont conflict with the basic teachings of Islam...


    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79 View Post
    in short, he wants muslims to open up and accept other religions instead of keeping within to their own religion.

    by mentioning the certain religion to stop burning, isn't precisely what LKY trying to say?

    I dun want to say this, but those terrorist actions we see from the news in other countries stems from hard core Islam beliefs, isn't it? Just cos they cannot accept other religion and think that Allah is all mighty above all religions. LKY don't want to see this happening in SG (a few such terroists members was detained in SG by ISD, and which religion do they belong to? Buddhism? Taoist? Christianity? No. Its Islam.).

    And why? We are surrounded by muslim countries (malaysia, indonesia). So LKY don't want muslim communities in SG also becoming like other countries (targeted by other terrorists).

    btw this burning is not a daily affair mind you, it only happens a few times in the year. But why not everyone stop driving? I think the drivers contributes much more to air pollution then this occasional burnings.
    By accepting that Allah is One God the Almighty doesnt mean we cant accept other religions...to live among our neighbours peacefully...Prophet Muhammad's teachings are good examples, to respect other religions as much..terrorist doesnt mean Muslims...there are many non-Muslims terror groups around the world...people who kills the innocence are wrong religiously...what ever religion they believe in...

  13. #13
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Quote Originally Posted by roDz View Post

    By accepting that Allah is One God the Almighty doesnt mean we cant accept other religions...to live among our neighbours peacefully...Prophet Muhammad's teachings are good examples, to respect other religions as much..terrorist doesnt mean Muslims...there are many non-Muslims terror groups around the world...people who kills the innocence are wrong religiously...what ever religion they believe in...
    The problem is, in this region, more terrorist acts stems from Islamic beliefs. And these black sheeps misuse in the name of Islam to carry out these terrorist acts.

    I believe if muslims are more open up and not kept within their own community, they will have a better understanding with other religions. Then they will know, there is more then just one religion on this planet. Then there is acceptance.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    2011-01-23 16:57

    SINGAPORE, Sunday 23 January 2011 (AFP) -- Singapore's founding father Lee Kuan Yew has urged local Muslims to "be less strict on Islamic observances" to aid integration and the city-state's nation-building process.

    Singapore has a predominantly Chinese population, with minority races including Muslim Malays and Indians, and Lee has always stressed the importance of racial harmony.

    "I would say today, we can integrate all religions and races except Islam," he said in "Lee Kuan Yew: Hard Truths to Keep Singapore Going," a new book containing his typically frank views on the city-state and its future.

    "I think we were progressing very nicely until the surge of Islam came and if you asked me for my observations, the other communities have easier integration -- friends, intermarriages and so on..." he stated.

    "I think the Muslims socially do not cause any trouble, but they are distinct and separate," Lee added, calling on the community to "be less strict on Islamic observances."

    During the book's launch on Friday, the self-described "pragmatist" warned Singaporeans against complacency, saying the largely ethnic Chinese republic was still a nation in the making.

    Describing Singapore in the book as an "80-storey building on marshy land," Lee said it must contend with hostility from larger Muslim neighbours.

    "We've got friendly neighbours? Grow up... There is this drive to put us down because we are interlopers," he said, citing alleged Malaysian and Indonesian efforts to undermine Singapore's crucial port business.

    Singapore was ejected from the Malaysian federation in 1965 in large part due to Kuala Lumpur's preferential policies for ethnic Malays, and has since built up Southeast Asia's most modern military to deter foreign aggression.

    Turning to local politics, Lee said the ruling People's Action Party (***), which has been in power since 1959 when Singapore gained political autonomy from colonial ruler Britain, will someday lose its grip on power.

    "There will come a time when eventually the public will say, look, let's try the other side, either because the *** has declined in quality or the opposition has put up a team which is equal to the ***... That day will come."

    "In the next 10 years to 20 years, I don't think it'll happen. Beyond that, I cannot tell."

    Lee said that despite a survey showing the contrary, he believed Singaporeans were not yet ready for a non-ethnic-Chinese prime minister.

    "A poll says 90 percent of Chinese Singaporeans say they will elect a non-Chinese as PM. Yes, this is the ideal. You believe these polls? Utter rubbish. They say what is politically correct," he stated.

    He also defended the policy of promoting marriage between highly-educated Singaporeans, a policy seen by critics as a form of social engineering, and dismissed the notion of love at first sight.

    "People get educated, the bright ones rise, they marry equally well-educated spouses. The result is their children are likely to be smarter than the children of those who are gardeners," he said.

    "It's a fact of life. You get a good mare, you don't want a dud stallion to breed with your good mare. You get a poor foal."

    People who are "attracted by physical characteristics" may regret it, he said.

    Lee also revealed that he had donated to charity all his earnings of S$13 million ($10 million) since stepping down as prime minister in 1990 after 31 years in power.

    Singapore's cabinet ministers are the highest paid in the world as part of a strategy to prevent corruption and attract talent from the private sector.

    Lee, who holds the special title Minister Mentor, now serves as an adviser to his son Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, who came to power in 2004.

    Amid all the hard-edged talk, Lee showed his tender side when asked about his late wife Kwa Geok Choo, who died aged 89 in October last year.

    "It means more solitude. No one to talk to when the day's work is done," Lee said in the book, the result of exclusive interviews with journalists from the country's leading daily, The Straits Times.

    http://www.mysinchew.com/node/51920

    well said.

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    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79 View Post
    in short, he wants muslims to open up and accept other religions instead of keeping within to their own religion.

    by mentioning the certain religion to stop burning, isn't precisely what LKY trying to say?

    I dun want to say this, but those terrorist actions we see from the news in other countries stems from hard core Islam beliefs, isn't it? Just cos they cannot accept other religion and think that Allah is all mighty above all religions. LKY don't want to see this happening in SG (a few such terroists members was detained in SG by ISD, and which religion do they belong to? Buddhism? Taoist? Christianity? No. Its Islam.).

    And why? We are surrounded by muslim countries (malaysia, indonesia). So LKY don't want muslim communities in SG also becoming like other countries (targeted by other terrorists).

    btw this burning is not a daily affair mind you, it only happens a few times in the year. But why not everyone stop driving? I think the drivers contributes much more to air pollution then this occasional burnings.

    Anyway the above is my own view. By nature, i am not a racist person (all those who knew me can vouch for me).

    But seeing slipdisq's reply, i think i got to comment something neutral. There is always a root cause (i dun see buddhism, taoist, christianity terrorism acts but i do hear and see TV reporting Islamic terrorist acts every now and then) to something.
    see how u got offended? thats exactly how i feel. It was just an example. and please, theres a difference between Islam and those radical terrorists.

    Since when were we not open to other religions? As an example, my sister married a Chinese man. I've seen many inter-racial marriages among my friends too.

    Im not exactly the religious type, u could call me a liberal Muslim, if there is such a thing. But HOW I n others practise the religion is really none of his business.

    Sinned79 i sincerely apologise if i offended u, but i was just trying to prove a point that nobody, including emperor lky, should tell people how to practise their religion.

  16. #16
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Quote Originally Posted by slipdisq View Post
    see how u got offended? thats exactly how i feel. It was just an example. and please, theres a difference between Islam and those radical terrorists.

    Since when were we not open to other religions? As an example, my sister married a Chinese man. I've seen many inter-racial marriages among my friends too.

    Im not exactly the religious type, u could call me a liberal Muslim, if there is such a thing. But HOW I n others practise the religion is really none of his business.

    Sinned79 i sincerely apologise if i offended u, but i was just trying to prove a point that nobody, including emperor lky, should tell people how to practise their religion.
    I am not offended. just trying to be neutral here. I am never offended by religion cos i dun have a religion as I am a free thinker although my parents practise buddhism (not that strict and devoted type).

    You may be one of the few or many who is opening up but there is also many or few who isn't.

    Those radical terrorist close themselves up , shut themselves up and distance away from others and only believe one religion should exist. Isn't this the case? I dun see other religions become so radical as this is. There might be other non muslim terrorists as pointed out by roDz, but their aim is different, they use terrorist as a form of violence to instill fear but not in the name of Allah as by those radical terrorists, so these terrorist recruits fell preys to bad sheeps using Allah's name to commit terrorist act and still thinks they are doing right and doing the martyr way, if these terrorist recruits had open up and understand about other religion, will they become to what they are today?

    LKY is not a nobody, afterall, he is the forefather who helps Singapore to become what it is today. So in certain ways, he definitely have some rights to say here. By the way just in case u think i am a LKY fanboy, no i am not. There is somethings i want to say but cannot be said here about LKY without getting myself into trouble. lol
    Last edited by sinned79; 24th January 2011 at 01:22 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    slipdisq: Don't bother arguing with these people. Just hop on over to HWZ forum and you'll be glad to know majority of the members there don't believe in lky's views.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Pls refrain from arguing and respect each individual point of view.

    Reason for this thread that was started by me was to gather more different response, as i believe as a Singaporean, each and everyone have a responsibility to know, learn and provide.

    I do hope that Kopitiam can improve with more local issues that we can talk about.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

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    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    i'm open to discussions and debates

    I am and always been a supporter of a mult-racial singapore(i've never liked the idea of Malaysia's pro-bumiputra policy). As it is today, i think we are far from being truly racially integrated. The problem not only lies with malay/muslims, but with other races/religions too. Its a 2-way thing.

    Anyway the issue here is with racial integration, not terrorism, which is a whole different can of worms. Just remember that Islam does not equate to terrorism. Those guys are extremists who interpreted things wrongly. A huge majority of Singaporean muslims practise moderately and are far from being extreme, except for a few black sheep. Time n time again during friday sermons we r reminded to never associate ourselves with extremists.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Lee Kuan Yew urges Muslims to 'be less strict'

    Quote Originally Posted by slipdisq View Post
    i'm open to discussions and debates

    I am and always been a supporter of a mult-racial singapore(i've never liked the idea of Malaysia's pro-bumiputra policy). As it is today, i think we are far from being truly racially integrated. The problem not only lies with malay/muslims, but with other races/religions too. Its a 2-way thing.

    Anyway the issue here is with racial integration, not terrorism, which is a whole different can of worms. Just remember that Islam does not equate to terrorism. Those guys are extremists who interpreted things wrongly. A huge majority of Singaporean muslims practise moderately and are far from being extreme, except for a few black sheep. Time n time again during friday sermons we r reminded to never associate ourselves with extremists.
    I agree that we have a really cool moderate muslim populations in Singapore.

    I can makan the babi stuff in front of my muslim friends for lunch & they are most cool with it as well as we respect & understand each other well

    Yep, those extremist are a different story I would say. They even kill people from their own religions


    lol, satu malaysia

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