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Thread: Dutch Windmill

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    Default Dutch Windmill



    A genuine Dutch windmill "Lily" that's located near the Sterling Ranges in Western Australia.
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    Default Re: Dutch Windmill

    Originally posted by Ian


    A genuine Dutch windmill "Lily" that's located near the Sterling Ranges in Western Australia.
    i guess there are many ways to shoot a windmill, but the perspective u chose to shoot it from is great! i also like the way the blades (?) form a diagonal from the top left of the image to the bottom right..
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    Default Re: Re: Dutch Windmill

    Originally posted by Red Dawn


    i guess there are many ways to shoot a windmill, but the perspective u chose to shoot it from is great! i also like the way the blades (?) form a diagonal from the top left of the image to the bottom right..
    Glad you like it RD. The perspective I choose was 'natural' for me and they aren't blades, they are 'sails' as they really do have canvas sails attached when in operation
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    That's a good angle to shoot the windmill Do you need a wide-angle lens to shoot from this perspective?
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    Originally posted by mpenza
    That's a good angle to shoot the windmill Do you need a wide-angle lens to shoot from this perspective?
    Yes you need a very wide angle to shoot from this perspective ... given that each sail is 26m long or around 56m in total.
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    Leaning windmill of dutch?
    seriously it does looks like it gonna fall back to me ...

    you got the blue skies & the windmill that not over exposure.
    err ... mind if you share your camera settings & where you metered??

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    wat the wide angle lens u used?

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    Originally posted by zOOm
    you got the blue skies & the windmill that not over exposure.
    err ... mind if you share your camera settings & where you metered??
    Shutter speed: 1/250th
    Aperture: f4
    Exposure compensation: -0.3
    Mode: Manual

    Metering for this shot was performed with a Gossen Luna Pro analogue light meter using incident metering to determine the overall diffuse light level. Spot metering using a 7.5 deg spot meterin g pattern was then used to calculate the dynamic range of the scene and the results were fed to my onboard computer (brain) and a final exposure figure was determined based on the readings obtained and a compensation figure was added that was determined by experience.

    Needless to say matrix metering gives a similar but not quite identical reading

    Originally posted by stl
    wat the wide angle lens u used?
    AFS Nikkor 17-35mm f2.8 at 17mm.
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    Ian,
    Many thanks for the details, you're a true pro man
    sorry, hope you don't mind, I got some more questions

    Gossen Luna Pro analogue light meter using incident metering
    all pros used them. never had the chance even to touch one.
    when you say incident metering, do u mean you measure the incident light falling on the windmill?

    where is the measuring position? the windmill or where the camera stands?

    Spot metering using a 7.5 deg spot meterin g pattern was then used to calculate the dynamic range of the scene and the results were fed to my onboard computer (brain)
    7.5deg spot metering, g pattern? Argghh ... too technical for me to grasp. but I suppose calculating the dynamic range is like using the zone system to determine the brightness range???

    a final exposure figure was determined based on the readings obtained and a compensation figure was added
    why the decision to ev -0.3 since you already meter with light meter & made the necessary computation? the compensation was due to the film used??

    my apologise for being long winded. will grateful if you could explain them if you can.

    Thanks!

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    Originally posted by zOOm
    when you say incident metering, do u mean you measure the incident light falling on the windmill?
    There's several ways to use a light meter, reflected and incident metering methods being the two types. However for measuring the diffuse average lighting conditions you can use incident metering by pointing the diffusion dome straight up to the zenith of the sky and taking a reading. This gives you the average lighting condition for the sky.

    I prefer to use an analogue meter (moving needle) for metering most scenes as I simply set up the spot metering head and can then move the metering spot around the scene and watch the needle move which gives a far better feel for the overall scene dynamics than a digital meter (I use a digital meter for some tasks).
    Originally posted by zOOm
    where is the measuring position? the windmill or where the camera stands?
    I measured this scene from the camera location. The windmill was measured using spot metering (see below).
    Originally posted by zOOm
    7.5deg spot metering, g pattern? Argghh ... too technical for me to grasp. but I suppose calculating the dynamic range is like using the zone system to determine the brightness range???
    Spot meters measure in a circular pattern, and the angular diameter of the circle varies with meter to meter, some spot meters use 1 degree, others, 5, 7.5, 10, 15 degrees etc. With external light meters the normal reflected metering 'pattern' is around 30-50 degrees depending on the light meter being used.

    The zone system is not really applicable to anything but Large Format photography due to it being a comprehensive system for both exposure and processing of the exposed film that employs such a holistic approach to production of a near perfect negative. Sadly the zone system really doesn't work for 35mm or colour film due to constraints with the film format.

    Calculating the dynamic range of a scenes lighting levels involves measuring the darkest and lightest areas of the scene and calculating how many stops range there is. It's pretty straightforward and with experience a competent photographer can make a visual estimation that is accurate to 1 stop or less.

    Once a scene's dynamic range is known then the most appropriate exposure modification can be undertaken to produce the desired result on film.

    Originally posted by zOOm
    why the decision to ev -0.3 since you already meter with light meter & made the necessary computation? the compensation was due to the film used??
    The decision to use -0.3 ev was based solely on wanting to preserve the highlights and move the centre point of the exposure slightly down the scale so as not to blow the highlights and yet preserve a reasonable amount of shadow detail.
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  11. #11

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    Nice shot! Nice blue skies as well.
    (always like wide angle shots...hehe)
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    watch the needle move which gives a far better feel for the overall scene dynamics than a digital meter (I use a digital meter for some tasks).
    I surely agree analogue is must easier to read. just like I won't like to read a digital rpm meter in a car.

    The zone system is not really applicable to anything but Large Format photography
    this surprise me since I think most basic photograhy books will definitely include a few pages in explaining them.

    to preserve the highlights and move the centre point of the exposure slightly down the scale so as not to blow the highlights and yet preserve a reasonable amount of shadow detail.
    yes, the details underneath the shadow of the roof is still visible.
    I guess the highlights are the white portion of the windmill?

    thanks for taking your precious time to answer all of them.
    makes me learn that photography is not just aim, focus, shoot. there are other factors need to taken into consideration. hmmm ... still a long long way for me ......

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    Originally posted by zOOm
    this surprise me since I think most basic photograhy books will definitely include a few pages in explaining them.
    It's a sad but true fact that almost all basic photography books aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Not only do many of them rehash common misconceptions and out right fallacies such as the applicability of the zone system to 35mm colour photography. What really pains me is that the books are often so badly written.

    Originally posted by zOOm
    yes, the details underneath the shadow of the roof is still visible.
    I guess the highlights are the white portion of the windmill?
    You guessed correctly.

    Originally posted by zOOm
    makes me learn that photography is not just aim, focus, shoot. there are other factors need to taken into consideration. hmmm ... still a long long way for me ......
    The road is as long and as hard as you want it to be, it really depends on what level of competence you are aiming for.
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    The road is as long and as hard as you want it to be, it really depends on what level of competence you are aiming for.
    well, as a hobbyist, my aims aren't high. Guess I will be just glad when one day, I'm able to proudly show/tell people that these are the picture taken by me

    I don't think I'm satisfied with all the pictures I've taken so far. perhaps only a couple.

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    Originally posted by zOOm

    well, as a hobbyist, my aims aren't high. Guess I will be just glad when one day, I'm able to proudly show/tell people that these are the picture taken by me

    I don't think I'm satisfied with all the pictures I've taken so far. perhaps only a couple.
    Probably the most important thing in photography is to analyse the shots that are bad, as doing this with a super critical eye to detail is the only effective way to really improve your photography. Aiming for a high number of 'keepers' per roll is a good way to improve your standards and never be hasty in making a shot unless it really is a one off situation.

    As for me, well I'm very seldom 100% happy with a shot as there's almost always room for improvement, be it in exposure levels, composition, lighting etc.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
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