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Thread: How do you all do it?

  1. #41
    Senior Member jOhO's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    I think next time you get "forced" into taking pics for pple who are close to you (read: take advantage), and seeing as you are fueled more by passion than money (that's good, btw!) tell them you will shoot for FREE, but you guarantee nothing. shoot for yourself and your passion, and these beautiful images (if any) can be SHARED with them. Specify that they should also really engage someone who does this regularly, and that you will be taking alternate angles that the pro might not be able to take. You mentioned that they "can't be bothered searching, and too expensive to engage another photographer" to which you need to stress your point, there could potentially be ZERO photos for something they paid ZERO dollars for. potentially. How you want to sugar coat that with PR polosoh, up to you.

    Trust me, alot of times when I am the main photographer, I wish I could run to the other corner of the room where a kid is craning her neck to see the bride instead of shooting say... the march in?

    Of course i also agree with many of the responses here, don't like weddings then don't shoot, whether paid or not. i think quite common sense. =)

  2. #42
    Member mabmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jOhO
    I think next time you get "forced" into taking pics for pple who are close to you (read: take advantage), and seeing as you are fueled more by passion than money (that's good, btw!) tell them you will shoot for FREE, but you guarantee nothing.)
    This is good! I hope I don't have to do another one after that!
    Your pictures speaks for you, not your camera.

  3. #43
    Member mabmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jopel
    unfortunately, there are.
    No way! Why would anyone wanna do that?!
    Your pictures speaks for you, not your camera.

  4. #44

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Cannot agree with Joho more.

    Shoot for free, shoot what i like, if they don't, too, shoul dhave hired a pro instead
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  5. #45

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    We are here long enough to be able to say NO to any friends or relatives who need our service for free. If I do it, it is for free, never ask for anything or any favors, or if i know the couple is really in the lower income group. For others, I can only be a guest-photographer.
    always the Light, .... always.

  6. #46

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mabmy View Post
    No way! Why would anyone wanna do that?!
    Some people just are pure arses, that's why. I also kena just now. Gear got laughed at, lens why so small and cheap and not the latest, as in why not 24-70. Body why so small, no grip one.... (I purposely do not shoot with grips actually to stay low profile)

    But it confirmed my suspicion, he can't even properly ID lenses, the prime that I was using is even more ex than the 24-70.
    I don't think I did a dud job, at least some of the relatives dropped tears when my Morning highlights slideshow was shown.

    But then one thing you quickly learn on the job, is that you do not make guests or the couple lose face. Eg, do not loudly ask "will you be going for a honeymoon soon, coz my photos will take 3 weeks to be returned". Quite a number pulled me aside to talk, coz they are not going (eg, others may think no $$$). It's a face thing, Singaporeans LOVE having face. So really LL one....suck it up and continue shooting.

    And yes, there are photographers who will teach you how to shoot even.

  7. #47

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    I suppose I have very nice friends. When their elder bro/sis' get married I get referred to them and treated like a real photographer.

    At the same time I suppose i'm a lucky photographer/videographer, after approx 60 weddings I've not yet met over-irritating relatives, co-pgs, co-vgs, uncles, gwcs with D-SLRs or camcorders trying to kill my perspective. Mainly just kids running infront of your lens during tea ceremony. Perhaps it has to do with the budget group of clients I aim at. Lesser chance of rich irritating relatives with big guns.

    To be honest, start a conversation with that "irritating" fella. Entertain him, answer his questions. Show them you know your stuff. Once a middle-aged man asked me abt high-iso & prime lenses on his D90, I showed him some images and shared abit about workflow... turned out that he was the groom's dad. It sometimes isn't that obvious.

    I'm just past 20 so I suppose my friends are obviously not of marry-ing age yet, and might not be ultra-pragmatic just yet.

    In years to come, my personal friends will ask me to be their wedding PGs. I'll tell them I'll shoot for them for free and ask them to hire another budget photographer to do the basics. Why? No stress for me and the images they'll get will be far more unique than if I were the main photographer, shooting with a 1st photographer mentality. Win-win situation.
    Last edited by surrephoto; 7th January 2011 at 12:52 AM.

  8. #48

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by surrephoto View Post
    I've not yet met over-irritating relatives, co-pgs, co-vgs, uncles, gwcs with D-SLRs or camcorders trying to kill my perspective. Mainly just kids running infront of your lens during tea ceremony. Perhaps it has to do with the budget group of clients I aim at. Lesser chance of rich irritating relatives with big guns.
    You'll meet one someday, somehow...but surely. Depends on luck, every fornight sure got 1-3 pax strike Toto mah. Surely one day that guy has some really good stuff and he's in a real good mood + good position since no need to take the usual pix and has 20 hours to spare for PS. Then proclaims he's better than you coz you got only like 30 "WOW" pix and he got 100. Sure got such lover boys, trust me.

    Then ask him to take 2 consecutive days and he'll crumble to bits. Not to mention like 3 ADs during peak periods, not to mention all early arrivals.

  9. #49

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    To be entirely honest, people blocking and things like that shows lack of communication and articulation skills from the photographer. It has nothing to do with the guest... They don't block you without a good reason or if they know they shouldn't be in front of you.

    There is no such thing as luck if you don't "manage" what is manageable.

    Well, if you use the top end camera and gear, I don't think it will be an issue anymore... Unfortunately it is something is unavoidable... If you rock up with D3X there is no one is going to better you in terms of equipment. To be honest, sometimes this is the way to stop people questioning about equipment stuff.

    It is more often than not, the demeanor of the photographer that created the "tension" and created the "competition".... One need to start to learn how to articulate.

    Taking great images just part of the equation, if one being complaint more than once for the same thing, change it... It is a problem and don't ignore that.

    Don't bring the "I AM THE Photographer" attitude... I have seen it far to many of that kind of attitude and they seems to create "issue" with guest which makes their own life a little difficult.

    We can't always see things from our perspective....

    Great images is only great to land you the job, what makes the different between one photographer can "grow" so quickly is how well they handle their clients.

    No doubt, you have seen some Photographers who thinks too highly of themselves and even say they know too much to their job and charge to little for their knowledge but they still seems to be where they were 10 years ago.

    One can't expect different result by doing the same thing again and again. One can't expect people to do something if one don't even try.

    Regards,

    Hart
    Last edited by Agetan; 7th January 2011 at 08:47 AM.

  10. #50

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    [QUOTE=Agetan;6859477]

    Well, if you use the top end camera and gear, I don't think it will be an issue anymore... Unfortunately it is something is unavoidable... If you rock up with D3X there is no one is going to better you in terms of equipment. To be honest, sometimes this is the way to stop people questioning about equipment stuff.

    I think what Bro Agetan says is very true. When you're paid the expectations are soo much higher and you have to manage it. This includes the expectations on equipment. I mean as photographers (Am or Pro) whenever you go to an event and see another photographer, what's the first thing you do? You look at what system and what cam the guy is using right. It's just natural and you can't really help it haha. Unless he's someone super famous and you've seen his photos before, the easiest way to judge his competency is thru his equip. Its not exactly fair, but that just the way it is.

    So i guess if you're thinking of being paid, best to have decent equipment if not situations like this will always happen.



    Great images is only great to land you the job, what makes the different between one photographer can "grow" so quickly is how well they handle their clients.

    I also agree that ppl skills are very impt in this biz or any other biz. Cos when you look at a particular category of photographers say the mid or upper mid range. I think the (technical) difference in their ports will not be that tremendous cos everyone in that category is competent. So the difference is really the style, personality and ppl skills that gets you selected.

    I'm not a pro but this is just my 2 cents worth

  11. #51
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    There's a reason why I don't do weddings and have only done a couple since the mid 80s.. I can't stand GWC types at weddings who keep on getting in my way. Once upon a time I was nice and civil with them, now if one blocks me more than once he will be told to F/O by body language and the tone of voice (cold, low and even) with a nice phrase like "excuse me friend, please stop crowding me while I work (translation, F*** off a**hole or you're gonna wind up with that 70-210 sticking out of your left nostril or "watch out there's a step and here's a shove to help you down")...

    Tongue firmly placed in cheek above.

    I guess I'm just not the bubbly sort of people person needed for weddings as I always found shooting them to be more hassle than it was worth. Bodies and wars are so much more civilised.....
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  12. #52

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    To be entirely honest, people blocking and things like that shows lack of communication and articulation skills from the photographer. It has nothing to do with the guest... They don't block you without a good reason or if they know they shouldn't be in front of you.

    Well, if you use the top end camera and gear, I don't think it will be an issue anymore... Unfortunately it is something is unavoidable... If you rock up with D3X there is no one is going to better you in terms of equipment. To be honest, sometimes this is the way to stop people questioning about equipment stuff.
    pls tell me u r not serious.

    imagine, during the march in,
    someone just step in right between u n the couple while holding on a Hassy MF with 60MP.

  13. #53

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Once upon a time I was nice and civil with them, now if one blocks me more than once he will be told to F/O by body language and the tone of voice (cold, low and even) with a nice phrase like "excuse me friend, please stop crowding me while I work (translation, F*** off a**hole or you're gonna wind up with that 70-210 sticking out of your left nostril or "watch out there's a step and here's a shove to help you down")...
    maybe there should be a new accessory made just for professional photographers.. a taser (that looks like a flash) that attaches into the accesory hotshoe and a "stun priority mode" built into the body itself.

  14. #54

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    maybe there should be a new accessory made just for professional photographers.. a taser (that looks like a flash) that attaches into the accesory hotshoe and a "stun priority mode" built into the body itself.
    Not very pleasant if you're not very good with the aim and hit the couple instead.

  15. #55
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    maybe there should be a new accessory made just for professional photographers.. a taser (that looks like a flash) that attaches into the accesory hotshoe and a "stun priority mode" built into the body itself.
    Cattle prods do the job just as well and they are cheaper too! Then again I have had one for years, it's called a Nikkor 300mm f2.0 .. when swung with just the right amount of force it flattens idiots and gives them a serious headache as a bonus
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  16. #56

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    maybe there should be a new accessory made just for professional photographers.. a taser (that looks like a flash) that attaches into the accesory hotshoe and a "stun priority mode" built into the body itself.
    There are 2 accessories photographer can use

    1) monopod ( good for chasing away wild animals and GWC )
    2) safety shoe ( wear the heavy safety shoes and step on their toes )
    If they try to step on yours, you are safe

  17. #57

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Nice joke thread now....

  18. #58

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    so true that ppl are getting more bucks can afford getting big gears but dat doesnt mean that they are passionate into photography especially wedding photography...these kinda ppl, no offence, are typical 5c's wannabe, what the jonas have they oso must have...its like a trend to haves...i hv been approached by family members as well saying that i can do wedding photoshoots but i simply tell them that i'm just an enthusiast who loves taking pictures...taking weddings pics calls for responsibilities to the king and queen of the day to immortalise their coming of together...its simple common sense...the singles individual should know that and those married individuals MUST KNOW THAT...halooo???

  19. #59
    Member mabmy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    To be entirely honest, people blocking and things like that shows lack of communication and articulation skills from the photographer. It has nothing to do with the guest... They don't block you without a good reason or if they know they shouldn't be in front of you.

    There is no such thing as luck if you don't "manage" what is manageable.

    Unfortunately for me, i do communicate with gwc standing close to me and this is what i usually say, "Hi my name is bla bla bla.. i am the wed photog for today, i hope we can come to a mutual understanding that you will not be in the way while i'm shooting." If i am lucky they will smile and nod and only remember what i said for a minute. If not they will glare and give me the "so what" look and walk away preparing their evil plan to kidnap the moon.

    Well, if you use the top end camera and gear, I don't think it will be an issue anymore... Unfortunately it is something is unavoidable... If you rock up with D3X there is no one is going to better you in terms of equipment. To be honest, sometimes this is the way to stop people questioning about equipment stuff.

    I still think that equipment shouldn't really matter, like bengchiat had mentioned, even if i should with a D3X lets say, then what if a rich gwc pop up out of no where and shoot with a MF? Give way to the almighty MF and run around looking for another spot to shoot during that short fast moment, for example when the couple is kissing?

    It is more often than not, the demeanor of the photographer that created the "tension" and created the "competition".... One need to start to learn how to articulate.

    Taking great images just part of the equation, if one being complaint more than once for the same thing, change it... It is a problem and don't ignore that.

    Don't bring the "I AM THE Photographer" attitude... I have seen it far to many of that kind of attitude and they seems to create "issue" with guest which makes their own life a little difficult.

    We can't always see things from our perspective....

    For myself, i have never showed an attitude of "Hell yeah i am the photog today ya! Check out my pimp'ed equips ya'll, show me some respecta!" I always smile, stop shooting when others suddenly crowd in and start shooting the couples, give way so that they can have a good shot too and even make small chats just so that they are aware of my presence. Just that sometimes i think i am a little timid since the pressure is there on me to deliver and yet at the same time have to be so courteous to the wedding guest as i don't want to end up in their bad books, so i let them stomp all over me.

    Great images is only great to land you the job, what makes the different between one photographer can "grow" so quickly is how well they handle their clients.

    No doubt, you have seen some Photographers who thinks too highly of themselves and even say they know too much to their job and charge to little for their knowledge but they still seems to be where they were 10 years ago.

    One can't expect different result by doing the same thing again and again. One can't expect people to do something if one don't even try.



    Regards,

    Hart
    My thoughts in blue Hart. Thank you.
    Your pictures speaks for you, not your camera.

  20. #60

    Default Re: How do you all do it?

    Bro mabmy, equipment do make a different. Few years back I meet a really nice wedding photographer. He once told mi tat why he uses D2x with 17-55 f2.8 was just to impress his client. Very true I saw him with an backup photographer using a cam with kit lens... Side by side I heard a comments... "Wow tat guy with big lens and body very pro."

    Also depending on how much u being offer. If I am sooting FOC I will just use D50 w !8-70. hehe. If a paid shoot I will use Fuji S5 with grip plus 17-55f2.8.

    Size does matter...hehe


    Ah Chua

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