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Thread: Gray Equipment

  1. #41
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    Originally posted by chaotic
    I was in the United States for a few months so when I wanted to buy a Nikon digital camera, I naturally had to buy it from there from an authorized merchant. It's perfectly normal and I had no intention of buying "gray" market goods. However, now that I return back to Singapore, my camera is considered a gray market good and Nikon Singapore probably will not entertain me.
    Actually, I'm not quite sure you understand the concept of grey. If you bought it from an authorised dealer in the USA, and did not buy a grey product from them (some carry both), then Nikon backs that up with an international warranty, and your product is not therefore grey.

  2. #42

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    I think the concept of gray market is just buying goods not meant for that particular country. According to Nikon USA's website, the digital products do not have international warranty. When they service the product, they will send back the product to where the product was bought.

    Having clarified that, I like to praise Nikon Singapore for doing up my hotpixel problem. Yes, it's a simple remapping but I am still appreciative. Thanks. I went there today and they just fixed it up w/o asking for any proof of purchase. It's nice and fast in Singapore, because I heard it takes a few weeks to mail in your camera in the United States. I just might get further Nikon products after receiving good service on my first Nikon product.

  3. #43
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    Exactly, so why do you think your product is grey? I don't know about the consumer digitals, but the professional stuff is backed by the same warranties (i.e. international) as their other products. But that doesn't change the fact that your camera is not grey, just that it might not be backed by an international warranty, which is quite a different matter altogether.

  4. #44
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    Originally posted by chaotic
    I think the concept of gray market is just buying goods not meant for that particular country. According to Nikon USA's website, the digital products do not have international warranty. When they service the product, they will send back the product to where the product was bought.
    Not quite ... Gray products are parallel imports via unofficial channels and in the case of Nikon gear HAVE NO Nikon warranty whatsoever. At best you'll get a 3rd party warranty via the camera shop or a major 3rd party repairer such as Mack in the USA.

    To quote from the B&H website in the USA.

    About GREY MARKET or DIRECT IMPORT

    Simply put, "grey market" means that the item is not covered by the manufacturer's warranty, because the manufacturer's licensed or authorized agent or representative did not import that item into the USA and did not sell it to the retailer to sell it to you. We import the product directly from the overseas manufacturer or distributor, bypassing additional distribution levels. Many manufacturers and distributors therefore coined the negative sounding term, "grey market", for this perfectly legal money-saving activity, namely "direct import".

    And from the Australian Photofinishing Newsletter The Biweekly Newsletter for Executives in the Photography Industry vol 15 #19 (April 25 1998)

    Parallel imports are genuine - not counterfeit - goods imported by someone other than an exclusive
    manufacturer, importer or distributor who is licensed to handle the particular brand. This licence gives the distributor exclusive use of brand logos and intellectual property (including warranty cards, instruction manuals, images and computer software) produced by the overseas manufacturer.

    I hope this finally lays to rest just what is a Gray item and what isn't.
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  5. #45
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    Originally posted by Jed


    Okay, so it doesn't feel as solid. Let me add that it doesn't feel as expensive as an F100 or F5 as well. Now, has this ever let you down or affected your pictures? No, otherwise that would have been your excuse. If doesn't feel as solid (not even an objective isn't as solid) is your best excuse (and yes I use that intentionally) then you really do want to find a better excuse before hunting for a better camera.
    even if i buy a D1X do i need and excuse??
    it does not what cos if yes then i will ask you why did you ever start photography (excuse)

    well it is just like some are asking for the reason then... what makes you so sure that is my best reason... there could be other reason.

    and futher more does it mean that you must find another vaild reason b4 changing a camera?? if yes then why do people want to buy so many cameras (like you)?
    Last edited by nicholas1986; 11th June 2002 at 10:29 PM.

  6. #46
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    Originally posted by nicholas1986


    even if i buy a D1X do i need and excuse??
    it does not what cos if yes then i will ask you why did you ever start photography (excuse)

    well it is just like some are asking for the reason then... what makes you so sure that is my best reason... there could be other reason.

    and futher more does it mean that you must find another vaild reason b4 changing a camera?? if yes then why do people want to buy so many cameras (like you)?
    Well, seriously, if the feel is your only reason, and the thing hasn't disappointed you, why waste the money? (ok, ok, I know it's your money and you can spend it anyway you like)

    For me, I used a 1978 Nikon FE, bought used 14 years ago for about 13 years before I upgraded to a F100. It did indeed serve me well in those 13 years, without a problem whatsoever. Ok, the feel isn't as nice as a F100/F5, or even a F80, but it still take great pictures.

    So why do I upgrade? Nikon's superior TTL flash is one, fast AF is the other. And of coz, the excellent matrix meter. And I figured since I want to upgrade, why waste time on the likes of the F65 (I think I can probably focus faster than that in low light)? Considered the F80 - don't quite like the smallish and darkish screen, and having used a metal body FE for so long, plastic just doesn't feel right. So I went for the F100 (F5 was out of the budget, let alone the likes of D1X) I also wanted the option to be able to use most of the AI-S lenses (not that I own a lot, but it does give me more options when buying e.g. used lenses)

    Always use your equipment to it's fullest before upgrading. Otherwise, it's just wasting money. And the upgrade never ends. And then, someday, for some reason, you will want a Leica. Or Hasselblad.

    Regards
    CK

  7. #47
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    Originally posted by nicholas1986
    even if i buy a D1X do i need and excuse??
    Erm, no. Excuses aren't really what you want. Ideally, you need a reason.

    it does not what cos if yes then i will ask you why did you ever start photography (excuse)

    Sorry, but I'm finding it really hard to understand you. It might help if you typed with good grammar and punctuation.

    well it is just like some are asking for the reason then... what makes you so sure that is my best reason... there could be other reason.

    I wasn't so sure. If you read proper grammar, then you will understand my use of the word "if" in my original post.

    and futher more does it mean that you must find another vaild reason b4 changing a camera?? if yes then why do people want to buy so many cameras (like you)?

    Well, I have reasons, for starters. Like, for example, I actually use my cameras and they help me generate an income. Each new purchase is carefully evaluated. If it doesn't help me generate additional income to pay for itself, then at least it should do something my current equipment doesn't do. For me anyway, something feeling more solid isn't a consideration. Although something that repeatedly lets me down in the field would be.
    _______

    Right enough about this with Nicholas. But let me say, frankly, that I'm not here to control what people want or don't want to buy. Nicholas can go and spend all his savings on an F100 or F5 just because he wants to, that's his prerogative and I don't know why I even bothered saying anything.

    I suppose the reason is because underlying that is the idea that you need a better camera so you can take better pictures. Not Nicholas specifically, but among the amateur photographic population in general. What I really want is for all these people to maximise their current cameras before plonking down for the latest and greatest. I suppose I should be all the more pleased if some people decide to blow their money for no good reason.

  8. #48
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    Originally posted by ckiang
    Always use your equipment to it's fullest before upgrading. Otherwise, it's just wasting money. And the upgrade never ends. And then, someday, for some reason, you will want a Leica. Or Hasselblad.
    Eh CK, your typing getting slack. Shouldn't that read:

    And then, someday, for NO reason, you will want a Leica. Or Hasselblad.



    Or maybe:

    And then, someday, for some EXCUSE, you will want a Leica. Or Hasselblad.

  9. #49
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    Originally posted by Jed


    Eh CK, your typing getting slack. Shouldn't that read:

    And then, someday, for NO reason, you will want a Leica. Or Hasselblad.


    Or maybe:

    And then, someday, for some EXCUSE, you will want a Leica. Or Hasselblad.
    Oh yes, very good point there. Must be mind/finger mis-coordination.

    Regards
    CK

  10. #50
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    Or as Ian would say, please engage brain before engaging...

  11. #51
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    Originally posted by Jed


    Erm, no. Excuses aren't really what you want. Ideally, you need a reason.

    it does not what cos if yes then i will ask you why did you ever start photography (excuse)

    Sorry, but I'm finding it really hard to understand you. It might help if you typed with good grammar and punctuation.

    well it is just like some are asking for the reason then... what makes you so sure that is my best reason... there could be other reason.

    I wasn't so sure. If you read proper grammar, then you will understand my use of the word "if" in my original post.

    and futher more does it mean that you must find another vaild reason b4 changing a camera?? if yes then why do people want to buy so many cameras (like you)?

    Well, I have reasons, for starters. Like, for example, I actually use my cameras and they help me generate an income. Each new purchase is carefully evaluated. If it doesn't help me generate additional income to pay for itself, then at least it should do something my current equipment doesn't do. For me anyway, something feeling more solid isn't a consideration. Although something that repeatedly lets me down in the field would be.
    _______

    Right enough about this with Nicholas. But let me say, frankly, that I'm not here to control what people want or don't want to buy. Nicholas can go and spend all his savings on an F100 or F5 just because he wants to, that's his prerogative and I don't know why I even bothered saying anything.

    I suppose the reason is because underlying that is the idea that you need a better camera so you can take better pictures. Not Nicholas specifically, but among the amateur photographic population in general. What I really want is for all these people to maximise their current cameras before plonking down for the latest and greatest. I suppose I should be all the more pleased if some people decide to blow their money for no good reason.
    well, i don't think there is a need to comment or question my english cos who are you to me to comment? if you don;t like what i say then get out of here and BTW i believe that some of us are also using singliSh/bit of broken english and so if you can't stand it you are not FIT to be here

  12. #52
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    Originally posted by Jed

    Well, I have reasons, for starters. Like, for example, I actually use my cameras and they help me generate an income. Each new purchase is carefully evaluated. If it doesn't help me generate additional income to pay for itself, then at least it should do something my current equipment doesn't do. For me anyway, something feeling more solid isn't a consideration. Although something that repeatedly lets me down in the field would be.
    thats for YOU ONLY (any maybe some others) but dun forget that in the world there are many people that wants to own many cameras like me(not for income)or like in clubsnap quite a few ppl also owns many cameras. do you mean that they are stupid to buy so many cameras?? and that you are the only few smart ones?

    then at least it should do something my current equipment doesn't do.
    so am i to say that if the f5 can do things that the f80 cannot do...is that a vaild reason that you can acept Mr.
    Last edited by nicholas1986; 12th June 2002 at 03:27 PM.

  13. #53

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    Originally posted by nicholas1986


    thats for YOU ONLY (any maybe some others) but dun forget that in the world there are many people that wants to own many cameras like me(not for income)or like in clubsnap quite a few ppl also owns many cameras. do you mean that they are stupid to buy so many cameras?? and that you are the only few smart ones?



    so am i to say that if the f5 can do things that the f80 cannot do...is that a vaild reason that you can acept Mr.
    hi nicholas, dun have to be bothered by what others say, some people think too highly of themselves.

  14. #54
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    Originally posted by mylau


    hi nicholas, dun have to be bothered by what others say, some people think too highly of themselves.
    i sort of realise it

  15. #55
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    Ouch, that hurts too.

  16. #56
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    Ok, all, take a deep breath and relax. This is after all, a photography forum, and everyone has his/her views. Let's not let the thread degenerate.

    well, i don't think there is a need to comment or question my english cos who are you to me to comment? if you don;t like what i say then get out of here and BTW i believe that some of us are also using singliSh/bit of broken english and so if you can't stand it you are not FIT to be here
    Nicholas, sorry, but Singlish or not, if you do not put it across properly, then it might be a little hard for the others to understand (lor). I don't think Jed can't stand Singlish, he is Singaporean after all. No need to personally attack each other. There's still ways to write Singlish and get the point across.

    thats for YOU ONLY (any maybe some others) but dun forget that in the world there are many people that wants to own many cameras like me(not for income)or like in clubsnap quite a few ppl also owns many cameras. do you mean that they are stupid to buy so many cameras?? and that you are the only few smart ones?
    Like I said, it's your money, and I have no rights to control and tell you what you should spend it on. If you want to buy a F5, I am not stopping you. Buy all you want, but ask yourself, is it really necessary? Will it really help you? If so, then go ahead.

    The thing is, too many people are spending too much time lusting after equipment. And they do own pretty decent equipment, so why not save the money on something else (after all, economy isn't so good) and improve your shots and maximize your investment in your current equipment?

    Please stop all the flames. The weather is already hot enough as it is. Cool down, shake hands and be friends okay?

    Regards
    CK

  17. #57
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    Nicholas, I apologise RE the comment about your typing. It was unmerited, but the point I'm trying to get across (and I checked it wasn't just me before I said anything) is that your post was hard to understand.

    Otherwise, go buy whatever makes you happy. As I said, I am not trying to tell people how they can or cannot spend their money, it's theirs to spend after all. But I am afraid that lots of people feel discontented with their equipment with not good reason for it, and then feel unnecessarily handicapped.

  18. #58

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    Here's a reply from Canon Singapore.

    We would strongly advise you to buy only from our authorised dealers.

    We cannot ascertain whether grey products are genuine or not. Also, these products may not be sold in the same configuration as our standard packing. These dealers may repackage certain items as accessories and sell these at additional costs. The warranty for SLRs have to be issued by recognised Canon offices participating in the international warranty scheme. To be recognised, it must be stamped by dealer in that country of issue. For example, Malaysia issued SLRs must be stamped by Malaysia dealer - if unstamped or stamped by Singapore dealer, it will not be accepted.

    Even though we do not advise customers to buy grey (parallel imported) products, we are unable to do much as it is a practice that is considered legal in Singapore.

    However, for peace of mind and to avail yourself of our services, you should buy only from our authorised dealers. We will repair genuine Canon products at our service centre but whether it is provided foc depends on whether it comes with a valid warranty card recognised under Canon's international warranty scheme.

    Regards.

    Edwin Teoh
    Marketing Manager
    Canon Marketing (Singapore)

  19. #59
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    hi got a qns here.... when u guyz say that nikon or canon won't service a grey product does it mean that it won't service it foc if its still under 1 yr or even after the warrenty periond and u WANNA PAY for the servicing they won't do it also?

  20. #60

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    stop the madness and back to the question :

    Where can I buy grey equipment in Singapore ? Lucky Plaza ??

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