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Thread: How to advise my gf?

  1. #1

    Default How to advise my gf?

    Hi everyone,

    I went to this charismatic church in sg with my gf. At first I was very happy with the church as it preaches the message of the grace of our LORD Jesus, and i thought it gives people a lot of hope.

    After a few months, I became very uncomfortable with the church. The Pastor actually says GOD ask him to anoint those businessmen in the church so that their businesses flourish and be living testimonies to GOD ( "BUSINESS MEN ARE THE MISSIONARIES OF THIS CENTURY...as DOORS ARE CLOSED TO MISSIONARIES"; ) He also blessed couples in the name of the LORD, saying that he see visions of 'floating babies' during the anointing. When a visiting pastor from australia came to sg to preach in the church, after he finished preaching, the same pastor who saw floating babies says something like this :" u noe what church, two weeks ago i was preaching abt LIFE in the LORD, and today what did the visiting pastor said? HE says abt life....This shows that we were both preaching in the holy spirit..."

    Other instances include he and some other pastors talked abt people who grew new kidneys when they had kidney failures, and that in India a sermon of 70,000, there was actually 'holy chaos' when people with broken legs jump up and walk......a sick child with withered hands and in a fetus like position came up and walk after prayer....near dead person with cancer healed the next day after her relatives preached in tongues.....church member won a large sum of money legitimately after praying and writing personal letters to GOD everyday.....church member won NKF 0.75 million dollars condo... every week there are new miracles, some people grow new kidneys, cured of cancers when pray in tongues, something unheard of when i was in my anglican church.

    Now the pastor says that "If you want to reap the full benefits of prayers, speaking in tougues is mandatory, not an option..." The sight of people falling down to the ground during healing sessions look very queen to me.

    All this are too much for me. I told my galfriend abt it and she thinks I am pulling down her faith, drawing her away from GOD. I just want her to see some sense.

    I am from an anglican background, and i have been warned of false prophets in the ending times. I am very uncomfortable with what i have seen / hear in the charismatic church.

    How can I help my gf?


    All these are too much for me.
    Canon 10D/550D /Sigma 17-50mm/Sigma 30mm/Canon 50mm/Sigma 85mm

  2. #2

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    Would it be improper to publish the name of this church?

    I know how you're feeling. I have felt very uncomfortable at such churches and rallies before. Some churches are very pushy, and their style is very different. But what they teach and preach, the core, does it contradict or try to take out of context what the bible says? By what you shared, I think it might. You might want to seek out one of your church elders and ask him for his opinion?

    Many people are attracted by the 'exciting' and 'lively' style of worship, which is why the charismatic movement is growing very fast. After hearing the very fantastic news as you mentioned, maybe this strengthens their faith and their believe that God works wonders?

    Would be best to seek advice from someone in your church.

  3. #3
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    Religion is always a very sensitive subject. Be very careful as you may just lose your gf. Be tactical. This is not going to be easy. I hope you find a solution. I understand how you feel.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweakmax
    All this are too much for me. I told my galfriend abt it and she thinks I am pulling down her faith, drawing her away from GOD. I just want her to see some sense.

    I am from an anglican background, and i have been warned of false prophets in the ending times. I am very uncomfortable with what i have seen / hear in the charismatic church.

    How can I help my gf?


    All these are too much for me.
    Leave that church since it is too much and you are uncomfortable about it.
    Regarding 'false prophets' IMHO, not very good to talk abt it in public forum.

    As for your gf, if you believe in God answers yr prayers, pray for her.
    There is something call "free-will". You cannot force her to believe what you believe.

  5. #5

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    i believe you're talking about new creation. if that scares you, wait till you hear what "pastor kong" of city harvest preaches about. his church services revolves around 3 things; His wife. church donations. having the largest church population in singapore.

    anyways, as for advice...
    ...i think she's probably not the right one for you.
    now you know why people go to their own churches to find their life partner!
    Last edited by LiOnElLiN; 30th June 2004 at 03:18 PM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tweakmax
    Hi everyone,

    I went to this charismatic church in sg with my gf. At first I was very happy with the church as it preaches the message of the grace of our LORD Jesus, and i thought it gives people a lot of hope.

    After a few months, I became very uncomfortable with the church. The Pastor actually says GOD ask him to anoint those businessmen in the church so that their businesses flourish and be living testimonies to GOD ( "BUSINESS MEN ARE THE MISSIONARIES OF THIS CENTURY...as DOORS ARE CLOSED TO MISSIONARIES"; ) He also blessed couples in the name of the LORD, saying that he see visions of 'floating babies' during the anointing. When a visiting pastor from australia came to sg to preach in the church, after he finished preaching, the same pastor who saw floating babies says something like this :" u noe what church, two weeks ago i was preaching abt LIFE in the LORD, and today what did the visiting pastor said? HE says abt life....This shows that we were both preaching in the holy spirit..."

    Other instances include he and some other pastors talked abt people who grew new kidneys when they had kidney failures, and that in India a sermon of 70,000, there was actually 'holy chaos' when people with broken legs jump up and walk......a sick child with withered hands and in a fetus like position came up and walk after prayer....near dead person with cancer healed the next day after her relatives preached in tongues.....church member won a large sum of money legitimately after praying and writing personal letters to GOD everyday.....church member won NKF 0.75 million dollars condo... every week there are new miracles, some people grow new kidneys, cured of cancers when pray in tongues, something unheard of when i was in my anglican church.

    Now the pastor says that "If you want to reap the full benefits of prayers, speaking in tougues is mandatory, not an option..." The sight of people falling down to the ground during healing sessions look very queen to me.

    All this are too much for me. I told my galfriend abt it and she thinks I am pulling down her faith, drawing her away from GOD. I just want her to see some sense.

    I am from an anglican background, and i have been warned of false prophets in the ending times. I am very uncomfortable with what i have seen / hear in the charismatic church.

    How can I help my gf?


    All these are too much for me.
    Ask her to read this:

    http://www.ccel.org/e/edwards/affect...ffections.html

    You can download and print out for her also.

  7. #7

    Default

    just have a heart to heart talk with her. She should understand. There are many different denominations but one God.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter
    Ask her to read this:

    http://www.ccel.org/e/edwards/affect...ffections.html

    You can download and print out for her also.
    Thanks for the links....I think it is a good one

    She will believe more after reading the link than believing me (she always ask me to backup my arguements with inferences from the bible)
    Canon 10D/550D /Sigma 17-50mm/Sigma 30mm/Canon 50mm/Sigma 85mm

  9. #9

    Default

    Are uncomfortable that people are experiencing the miracle of healing or are you uncomfortable that they might be lying to deceive you? If its the former, then, well, read the bible again, as Jesus and his disciples did go around healing the sick, raising the dead etc, unless you think thats all a fairy tale.. then I'm not sure if you can call yourself a Christian. Just because many things are new to you doesn't make it wrong, right? I remember I felt funny the first time I went swimming, but eventually I learned to swim and got comfortable in the water, the same can be applied to you in a different worship environment.

    If its the latter case, well, things like that are easy to prove or disprove, right? Talk to these people who've been healed, talk to their friends etc and you can probably find out the truth of the matter pretty easily.

    However, I'd be a bit more careful labeling someone as a "false prophet" etc, as well as trying to force someone to believe as you do. You can sit down and talk reasonably with her, explaining your fears and worries, as well as get her to explain why she believes in that church, but "its too much for me" isn't a good reason to get someone to change their minds, especially on religion

  10. #10

    Default

    moderators: not too sure is this spark will start a forest fire...debates over art fine, religion umm... not so comfortable. do monitor this space.

    to all: give your opinions, but DO NOT get personal ok? every one will have differring views, given that this is a public forum, of course all are entitled opinions, but if anyone wanna say something, pls do think before posting, sometimes it might be better to hold your silence.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    Are uncomfortable that people are experiencing the miracle of healing or are you uncomfortable that they might be lying to deceive you? If its the former, then, well, read the bible again, as Jesus and his disciples did go around healing the sick, raising the dead etc, unless you think thats all a fairy tale.. then I'm not sure if you can call yourself a Christian. Just because many things are new to you doesn't make it wrong, right? I remember I felt funny the first time I went swimming, but eventually I learned to swim and got comfortable in the water, the same can be applied to you in a different worship environment.

    If its the latter case, well, things like that are easy to prove or disprove, right? Talk to these people who've been healed, talk to their friends etc and you can probably find out the truth of the matter pretty easily.

    However, I'd be a bit more careful labeling someone as a "false prophet" etc, as well as trying to force someone to believe as you do. You can sit down and talk reasonably with her, explaining your fears and worries, as well as get her to explain why she believes in that church, but "its too much for me" isn't a good reason to get someone to change their minds, especially on religion
    I received the LORD a long time ago when I was still in SEC sch. But I didn't go church after I did that. I was from an Anglican school. She was the one who brought me to her church and hope I benefit from it. In the end, I just find too many things which I think are not true......

    I have talked to my gf....I also wanna believe what ur pastors said...everything so good....so full of hope.....every week got new miracles....but I just find everything too hard to believe...(All those stuff i have told u.....floating babies?)...afraid that my gf will be conned....

    I worked in the police force b4, I saw people conned by others their money, body, love etc but i think the greatest tragedy is conned of hopes...

    I didn't use the term 'false prophets' myself....I spend 4 years in an Anglican Sch and this is what the pastors used to warn us......my gf is the same as u...doubting whether I am a true christian or not....I have already assured her...that I believed in the basic principles that she believed (the SON)...but I do not believe in people growing new kidneys from nowhere.....
    Canon 10D/550D /Sigma 17-50mm/Sigma 30mm/Canon 50mm/Sigma 85mm

  12. #12

    Default

    My gal has a condition whereby blood was detected in her urine and she has to go for checkup every year. She is a faithful christian. I ask her:" You are faithful my dear, but why are u still not healed every week the pastor says u r..."

    she told me:" It could have been much worse without Jesus."

    I just dunno how to make her see some reason. She told me if everything can reason then dun need beliefs already. She actually wanted me to use my faith more, which she says is lacking.

    Whenever we talked abt her pastors' sermons, she asked me to back it up with inference from the bible to convince her. We had lots of quarrels becoz she think I am mocking her pastors, causing her to lose her faith and straying her away from GOD. To avoid quarrels, I have already told her I will stop going to her church, or else i will keep criticising and she will not like. Am I doing the right thing? Initially I was hoping to help raise her some doubts, and now she says she is suspicious over me as she think i have ulterior motives in raising her doubts
    Canon 10D/550D /Sigma 17-50mm/Sigma 30mm/Canon 50mm/Sigma 85mm

  13. #13

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    Hi,

    Was not my intention to doubt if you're a CHristian or not, and since religion is probably the most sensitive of issues to discuss, I shall not say much more on the subject.

    However, I WILL say this: The gift and ministry of healing in the church goes back all the way to Jesus' time, so its as much a part of Christianity as any. Not to say that every claim of healing is true, because sadly, more often than not, a lot are bogus -but you shouldn't automatically denounce anything as false either.

    Anyway, I hope you two can come to terms. Its never an easy subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by tweakmax
    I received the LORD a long time ago when I was still in SEC sch. But I didn't go church after I did that. I was from an Anglican school. She was the one who brought me to her church and hope I benefit from it. In the end, I just find too many things which I think are not true......

    I have talked to my gf....I also wanna believe what ur pastors said...everything so good....so full of hope.....every week got new miracles....but I just find everything too hard to believe...(All those stuff i have told u.....floating babies?)...afraid that my gf will be conned....

    I worked in the police force b4, I saw people conned by others their money, body, love etc but i think the greatest tragedy is conned of hopes...

    I didn't use the term 'false prophets' myself....I spend 4 years in an Anglican Sch and this is what the pastors used to warn us......my gf is the same as u...doubting whether I am a true christian or not....I have already assured her...that I believed in the basic principles that she believed (the SON)...but I do not believe in people growing new kidneys from nowhere.....

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    If its the latter case, well, things like that are easy to prove or disprove, right? Talk to these people who've been healed, talk to their friends etc and you can probably find out the truth of the matter pretty easily.
    How to talk to people who've been healed or not? Do u know of anyone whom I can talk to who has experienced this..I personally do not know of any, and everytime the pastors tell a testimony.. no names was given...no church member came forward....no video available (he said they did not take videos)
    all the testimonies given on their website are only names and age....no email....

    I am not against healing, but how do u discern between 'real' and 'false' healing....many times the pastor says "Those with backaches/whatever aches...u are healed....those with neckpains....u are healed..." How to discern this? Apart from my gf who has blood in her urine, I have an elevated liver enzyme condition and I have been praying, receiving healing at church every week when the pastor says:" I / U are healed"....instead my liver enzymes level did not drop but risen in the past few months? I do not have enuff faith?

    Once her pastors told people that they should not stop medication if they have medical condition. But if they believe God has healed them, then they can stop. I feel this is as good as asking people to stop medication....
    Last edited by tweakmax; 30th June 2004 at 03:48 PM.
    Canon 10D/550D /Sigma 17-50mm/Sigma 30mm/Canon 50mm/Sigma 85mm

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gymrat76
    Hi,

    Was not my intention to doubt if you're a CHristian or not, and since religion is probably the most sensitive of issues to discuss, I shall not say much more on the subject.

    However, I WILL say this: The gift and ministry of healing in the church goes back all the way to Jesus' time, so its as much a part of Christianity as any. Not to say that every claim of healing is true, because sadly, more often than not, a lot are bogus -but you shouldn't automatically denounce anything as false either.

    Anyway, I hope you two can come to terms. Its never an easy subject.
    Thanks....I know ur intentions are good
    Canon 10D/550D /Sigma 17-50mm/Sigma 30mm/Canon 50mm/Sigma 85mm

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweakmax
    Hi everyone,

    I went to this charismatic church in sg with my gf. At first I was very happy with the church as it preaches the message of the grace of our LORD Jesus, and i thought it gives people a lot of hope.

    After a few months, I became very uncomfortable with the church. The Pastor actually says GOD ask him to anoint those businessmen in the church so that their businesses flourish and be living testimonies to GOD ( "BUSINESS MEN ARE THE MISSIONARIES OF THIS CENTURY...as DOORS ARE CLOSED TO MISSIONARIES"; ) He also blessed couples in the name of the LORD, saying that he see visions of 'floating babies' during the anointing. When a visiting pastor from australia came to sg to preach in the church, after he finished preaching, the same pastor who saw floating babies says something like this :" u noe what church, two weeks ago i was preaching abt LIFE in the LORD, and today what did the visiting pastor said? HE says abt life....This shows that we were both preaching in the holy spirit..."

    Other instances include he and some other pastors talked abt people who grew new kidneys when they had kidney failures, and that in India a sermon of 70,000, there was actually 'holy chaos' when people with broken legs jump up and walk......a sick child with withered hands and in a fetus like position came up and walk after prayer....near dead person with cancer healed the next day after her relatives preached in tongues.....church member won a large sum of money legitimately after praying and writing personal letters to GOD everyday.....church member won NKF 0.75 million dollars condo... every week there are new miracles, some people grow new kidneys, cured of cancers when pray in tongues, something unheard of when i was in my anglican church.

    Now the pastor says that "If you want to reap the full benefits of prayers, speaking in tougues is mandatory, not an option..." The sight of people falling down to the ground during healing sessions look very queen to me.

    All this are too much for me. I told my galfriend abt it and she thinks I am pulling down her faith, drawing her away from GOD. I just want her to see some sense.

    I am from an anglican background, and i have been warned of false prophets in the ending times. I am very uncomfortable with what i have seen / hear in the charismatic church.

    How can I help my gf?


    All these are too much for me.
    Although I'm a non-believer (those that are prolly on the straight road to Hell according to Charismatics) and had stopped attending church for almost 10yrs, I made it a point to tell my colleagues (who are attendants at a Charismatic Church - the 'largest' congregation in Singapore, they claim) that I'd been to their service and do not like what they'd preached there.

    None of them approached me after that.

    As for ur gf, u'll have to talk to her to make sure she UNDERSTANDS what is being preached and the true message IN SPIRIT (rather den taking the literal context and say, "Its written here, it can't go wrong." thing) there is nothing more horrible den to turn a Sunday Service into a Business Talk thing.

    As for those miracles claimed... Let's say dat I'm seriously skeptical abt the whole thing. I believe that God works miracles to those who work to bring about a miracle and not some effortless gains. Of cos, writing personal letters to God telling him u wanna strike Toto is NOT 'work'. More like waiting for money to drop frm the sky.

  17. #17

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    Do be aware that an intellectual argument can persuade the mind, but not the spirit. It is not a debate you're trying to win. After all, whose mind can fathom the deep things of God? Continue to pray for her.

    If experience alone is the foundation of our faith, we will be easily misled.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn
    Although I'm a non-believer (those that are prolly on the straight road to Hell according to Charismatics) and had stopped attending church for almost 10yrs, I made it a point to tell my colleagues (who are attendants at a Charismatic Church - the 'largest' congregation in Singapore, they claim) that I'd been to their service and do not like what they'd preached there.

    None of them approached me after that.

    As for ur gf, u'll have to talk to her to make sure she UNDERSTANDS what is being preached and the true message IN SPIRIT (rather den taking the literal context and say, "Its written here, it can't go wrong." thing) there is nothing more horrible den to turn a Sunday Service into a Business Talk thing.

    As for those miracles claimed... Let's say dat I'm seriously skeptical abt the whole thing. I believe that God works miracles to those who work to bring about a miracle and not some effortless gains. Of cos, writing personal letters to God telling him u wanna strike Toto is NOT 'work'. More like waiting for money to drop frm the sky.
    OT: tweakmax, u're practising Kyoushin Karate? Heard dat training's quite siong.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by tweakmax
    Now the pastor says that "If you want to reap the full benefits of prayers, speaking in tongues is mandatory, not an option..."
    Hi tweakmax, the following passage from the Bible, 1 Corinthians, Chapter 13 might be helpful;

    If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.

    And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

    If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.

    It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.

    For we know partially and we prophesy partially, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

    When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.

    At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.
    So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by tweakmax
    The Pastor actually says GOD ask him to anoint those businessmen in the church so that their businesses flourish and be living testimonies to GOD ( "BUSINESS MEN ARE THE MISSIONARIES OF THIS CENTURY...as DOORS ARE CLOSED TO MISSIONARIES"
    hi tweakmax...

    it might be helpful to read again what Jesus taught in the bible.

    "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven"

    "knock, and the door will be opened unto you, seek and you will find"
    you can buy better gear but you can't buy a better eye

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