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Thread: Where is the shake coming from?

  1. #1

    Default Where is the shake coming from?

    Today, while trying out some closeup shots, realized that the camera is shaking a lot when i am adjusting the focus. Would like to ask for advice on which is the potential culprit.

    Here's the equipment:
    Sirui N2205 with G20 ballhead with default 'acra-compatible' mount.
    Canon 550D with batt grip and 70-200 F4 lens.

    Here's how i took the photo:
    As it's a 'low bush' shoot, the tripod legs were not extended at all. The legs were opened to the 1st latch. The camera's mounted on the tripod (not using lens collar). Focal length 200mm.
    Using liveview, do a manual 'pre-focus' on the hoppers (yes,grasshopper )
    Tightened all knobs on the ballhead.
    zoom in using 10x to focus sharply on the eyes.
    When I touch the focus ring on the lens, the screen will shake a lot.
    Need to focus, leave the setup to stabilize, not sharp, minute adjustment, wait for setup to stabilize... (rinse and repeat).

    Question:
    1) is it normal as the focal length is too long and using liveview x10 magnification?
    2) if not, where is the potential cause of the shake? I'm thinking of the following possible cause:
    a) The ballhead itself is not tight enough to support the whole setup, esp with the CG not in the center
    b) The tripod is not stable enough
    c) The 'acra' plate fixed onto the camera is too small, and thus, not stable enough.


    Any thoughts on this?

  2. #2
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    there is a reason of for a long focal length lens come with tripod collar,
    if there is one, use them.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Is the lens using IS?
    Enlighten me...
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Use the tripod collar on the lens, and 2s MLU if your camera has it
    Alpha

  5. #5

    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Its the lens IS. The 70-200 has very sensitive/pronounced image stabilization. Just turn it off when using the tripod. The IS kicks in when it senses the minute vibrations when you reach for the focus.

    Alternatively, if it still doesn't solve the problem. Try auto focus with center zone select. See if it makes any difference.
    Last edited by Nashaz; 11th December 2010 at 09:42 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    thanks for all the reply.

    Firstly, definitely not the IS as i'm using canon 70-200 F4 lens. this lens no IS
    Secondly, don't it has to do with MLU and autofocus etc as i'm asking about the 'shake' in the liveview during focusing, and not the image taken.

    Maybe I did not explain clearly, maybe i rephrased it again.

    When I mount my canon 550D on the tripod and secure all knobs, it's still not really tight, ie the camera does shifts when i apply force to it. Now on 200mm focal length (320mm 35mm equivalent) and using live view x 10 (to do manual focusing), even when i touch the focus ring, the shift is very pronounced.

    BTW, i do not have a tripod collar, and thus did not use one although tripod collar is available for the lens.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Quote Originally Posted by seet View Post
    Today, while trying out some closeup shots, realized that the camera is shaking a lot when i am adjusting the focus. Would like to ask for advice on which is the potential culprit.

    Here's the equipment:
    Sirui N2205 with G20 ballhead with default 'acra-compatible' mount.
    Canon 550D with batt grip and 70-200 F4 lens.

    Here's how i took the photo:
    As it's a 'low bush' shoot, the tripod legs were not extended at all. The legs were opened to the 1st latch. The camera's mounted on the tripod (not using lens collar). Focal length 200mm.
    Using liveview, do a manual 'pre-focus' on the hoppers (yes,grasshopper )
    Tightened all knobs on the ballhead.
    zoom in using 10x to focus sharply on the eyes.
    When I touch the focus ring on the lens, the screen will shake a lot.
    Need to focus, leave the setup to stabilize, not sharp, minute adjustment, wait for setup to stabilize... (rinse and repeat).

    Question:
    1) is it normal as the focal length is too long and using liveview x10 magnification?
    2) if not, where is the potential cause of the shake? I'm thinking of the following possible cause:
    a) The ballhead itself is not tight enough to support the whole setup, esp with the CG not in the center
    b) The tripod is not stable enough
    c) The 'acra' plate fixed onto the camera is too small, and thus, not stable enough.


    Any thoughts on this?
    probably all a,b and c and when when you are at the longest focal length, any minute vibrate will be much amplified as the zoom increases.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

  8. #8

    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    in this case then, cost aside, is there tripod/quick release plate/ballhead that ensures 'perfectly' stable set?

    or this is something that we have to live with?

  9. #9
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    you can see it for yourself, when a long lens using tripod collar, the CG is moving from one end toward center of the whole set up.

    without using tripod collar.

    http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/a.../pinhole2.html

    using tripod collar.

    http://static.photo.net/attachments/...2-24179984.JPG


    anyway, @200mm, slight movement will still be present even your set up is extra sturdy.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
    www.benjaminloo.com | iStock portfolio

  10. #10

    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    yup, i know the CG is off. anyway, mines a f4, so not tt bad as a 2.8

    so from what you are saying, it's sort of something that we have to live with. it's only a matter of magnitude of unstability.

    thanks a lot for all the comments esp catchlights. was trying to take some close up shot using my non-macro lens and tripod + manual focus as a start.

    will practice more

  11. #11
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Quote Originally Posted by seet View Post
    in this case then, cost aside, is there tripod/quick release plate/ballhead that ensures 'perfectly' stable set?

    or this is something that we have to live with?
    You answered your own question.

    Get a tripod collar. If you get the 3rd party ones, they are quite cheap.

    And for BH, get a very strong and stable one like this:
    http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductD...llhead-with-LR

  12. #12
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Btw, the grass or leaves which the hoppers are on will also move....

    so do note on that too...
    Michael Lim
    My Flickr Site

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    From my limited experience, your problem is likely to be:

    1. Poor ball head. While people say it is much stronger than the g10, I personally feel that the g20 is still quite bad, as in no matter how much you tighten, it will still shake a little bit even with tripod ring @ weird angles. However, tripod ring helps a lot.

    2. Some slop or freeplay between grip and body. You normally wouldn't see the freeplay, but if you use a lot of force, there might be a bit. At very long focal length and up close focus distance, even that tiny tiny bit will be a problem when you mount the body on the ball head.

    3. You are using 10x liveview @ long focal length and close up focus distance.

    The problem will get worse as you get closer.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    thanks everyone for their inputs.

    think a tripod collar and ballhead 'upgrade' is in place for me. but think will take quite some time...did some major purchases last month (both photography and trekking related). need to save up

    i think im infected with the BBB virus!!!

  15. #15
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Not sure if you're familiar with the concept of "bending moment", but basically even if you welded a long metal bar to a solid object, a weight applied at the free end will still cause the bar to wobble. Think of a diving springboard.
    I seriously doubt the ballhead is the problem
    Exploring! :)

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZerocoolAstra View Post
    Not sure if you're familiar with the concept of "bending moment", but basically even if you welded a long metal bar to a solid object, a weight applied at the free end will still cause the bar to wobble. Think of a diving springboard.
    I seriously doubt the ballhead is the problem
    If ts's K20 is the same as mine, then his ballhead will be part of the problem. I use a tripod collar with a sigma 150mm for macro on the k20.

    btw, not to debate about the bending moment thingy and I could be wrong, but I think in this case, it is just a simple case of moment about the ballhead and not bending moment because the deflection is at the joint end which is not even a fixed joint and the lens is pretty much non-deforming.

  17. #17
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieInCS View Post
    If ts's K20 is the same as mine, then his ballhead will be part of the problem. I use a tripod collar with a sigma 150mm for macro on the k20.

    btw, not to debate about the bending moment thingy and I could be wrong, but I think in this case, it is just a simple case of moment about the ballhead and not bending moment because the deflection is at the joint end which is not even a fixed joint and the lens is pretty much non-deforming.
    Haha yes yes you're right. My mistake with the terminology.

    Surprised to hear that the head could be less rigid than I expected.
    Anyway hope that TS can solve the problem
    Exploring! :)

  18. #18

    Default Re: Where is the shake coming from?

    will need some time to figure out the actual problem based on all the inputs.
    anyway, will be getting a tripod collar first. ball head has to wait. it's erm, a bit expensive, but am looking at this (but not within the next 1/2 year i guess): Acra Swiss Monoball. I particularly like the way the rotating part is at the top part after the ballhead. this means once your camera is level, you can pan the camera for panorama shots. opps OT liao

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