Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 44

Thread: Speedlites

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Ouch, that hurts.

  2. #22

    Default

    Hmm.....a simple opinion from me can actually spark off so many attacks on my personality and character. Some people here are very rude.

    I still feel that my 550EX is more powerful than my SB80DX, no matter what you people say.

  3. #23

    Default

    Originally posted by Jed
    Hmm, I really should make it a habit to read more random threads... they every now and then prove rewarding...

    Firstly, why compare the two? It's a completely moot comparison. And then Mylau:

    By using my eyes to see! Shooting at the same environment using two different cameras. Using my canon system, the 550EX is able to flash at a longer range than the nikon system.

    Using your eyes to see? A GN of 55 versus 56 at 105mm is about a 2% difference. Or about 1/50th of a stop. Sorry, but the human eye isn't that sensitive.

    And I'm not buying your experience factor either, if anything, your words just reveal your inexperience. You know a flash is underperforming not by what your eyes see, but what you realise when it doesn't pump out enough juice when you shoot.

    This may seem rather unscientific, but after shooting hundreds or maybe thousands of photos using both flash units, I am confident in my statement: 550EX is a bit more powerful than SB-80DX

    Without meaning to be funny... great for you. That sounds like about an afternoon's work for me. Well done. Glad to see you're putting all that expensive equipment to some use.

    My dear friend, not all things need to be measured and gauged accurately using precise instruments. There is this thing call experience. You don't need to measure the amount of light in a room to decide which ISO film to use, do you?

    Right. And neither do you need to measure the amount of light in a room to decide whether to use flash or not right? Sure you don't need to measure to decide what ISO film to use... but do you measure what aperture and shutter speed to use? Or do you use your eyes? After all they seem accurate to 1/50th of a stop...

    I shoot in my work place many times for more than 3 years, using two different systems. From the thousands of photographs that I produced, it is not difficult for me to tell which is the more powerful flash. I shoot the stage many times. The 550ex is able to reach places where the sb80dx could not reach. I always switch lenses in between shoots. Safe to say that I have used a variety of lenses with each flash unit.

    As CK has already said, the SB80DX hasn't been out long. Sure, you may still have a Nikon camera, but your words attempt to suggest that you have been largely experienced with both over the period of 3 years. Sorry... the SB80DX hasn't been out 3 months. Just another example of spouting and then trying to cook up some fancy excuse.

    Selling my D1X doesn't mean that I do not have another nikon camera. It is very wrong to make baseless assumptions.

    You're certainly right. With you I wouldn't be surprised really. Is there anything you haven't bought yet? Maybe it's not your fault: I suppose you do have to keep buying expensive stuff so you continue to get good service from AP...

    Many years ago, I learned photography by judging f-stop and shutter speed simply by looking at the subject. No light meters were allowed. We do not rely on equipment to set our exposures.

    Wow. Maybe ignore my above. Maybe you are superhuman after all. I suppose you'll go check up in books or online, but I don't suppose you know how many times brighter a cloudcast day is than normal residential flourescent lighting? Oh what I would give for a live conversation.

    If you choose to believe in specs and figures so much, so be it!

    So after someone throws in the small fact that on paper the SB80DX is more powerful, suddenly you toss the specs. So I suppose the EOS1D also has more resolution than the D1x, which is why you bought it instead, despite what the specs said? Maybe the D1x really shoots faster than the EOS1D's 8fps? Who knows... after all, cannot believe in specs and figures so much!

    Sorry but while specs aren't everything (all manufacturer's overstate guide numbers anyway, at least not overstate but conduct tests in highly favourable conditions), I wouldn't trust an eyeball of the situation, much less yours. I'm not seeing much evidence of credible experience, or theory for that matter.
    Thx for this reply, you've just helped me and other members of this forum to realise what kind of person you are.

  4. #24

    Default

    Who care which is more powerful!!!!!


    As long as the picture turn out good at the end of the day, I happy liao!

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    12,938

    Default

    Originally posted by Bluestrike
    Who care which is more powerful!!!!!


    As long as the picture turn out good at the end of the day, I happy liao!
    Agree!!! As long as it works the way it's supposed to be, it's good enough!

    if anyone wants a more powerful flash, here's one:
    http://www.metz.de/1_metz_2000/m_pag...__70_MZ-5.html
    Check out my wildlife pics at www.instagram.com/conrad_nature

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    I'm still recovering from all the flashes that flashed at me.

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,911

    Default

    Originally posted by mylau


    Thx for this reply, you've just helped me and other members of this forum to realise what kind of person you are.
    Really? Care to spell it out? Sorry, but my comments are based on logical deductions. Address some of the issues, or come up with something better than just shrugging your shoulders and implying that I am being a certain kind of person, whatever it may be.

    Your photos (the few that you have posted) do not reflect the kind of experience you claim. Specifically, from what I have seen, you cannot even utilise flash properly to achieve a natural looking exposure in daylight, let alone tell the difference between two nearly identical flash units (in terms of GNs anyway). See this thread .

    Your post smacks of my signature line, frankly I doubt you have used an sb80dx for an extended period of time, and I doubt you retained a Nikon camera after you sold your D1x. But I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in the first place, and still do.

    The other points I have already handled in my earlier post, and am ready to stand by them if you have anything in reply other than calling my credibility into question without substantiation.

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    2,548

    Default

    .. The ang moh speaketh

    In 30+ years of photographic experience, and a couple of decades of professional experience I can honsestly state that there are wankers and photographers, however the biggest wankers of the lot are amateurs with more money than talent or ability, in other words those who just have to have the latest and greatest for "poser" value and who honestly believe that they will take better photographs with new toys.

    Something to think about perhaps?
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  9. #29

    Default

    Originally posted by mylau


    Thx for this reply, you've just helped me and other members of this forum to realise what kind of person you are.
    Yes, Jed is a true professional professional who takes pride in his work and utilises his equipment to its maximum and produces great photographs consistently, and is kind enough to give advice to people with less experience in photography despite being rebuked at times for his help.

    But then again, it's something well all figured out a long time ago.

  10. #30

    Default

    Originally posted by Jed


    Really? Care to spell it out? Sorry, but my comments are based on logical deductions. Address some of the issues, or come up with something better than just shrugging your shoulders and implying that I am being a certain kind of person, whatever it may be.

    Your photos (the few that you have posted) do not reflect the kind of experience you claim. Specifically, from what I have seen, you cannot even utilise flash properly to achieve a natural looking exposure in daylight, let alone tell the difference between two nearly identical flash units (in terms of GNs anyway). See this thread .

    Your post smacks of my signature line, frankly I doubt you have used an sb80dx for an extended period of time, and I doubt you retained a Nikon camera after you sold your D1x. But I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in the first place, and still do.

    The other points I have already handled in my earlier post, and am ready to stand by them if you have anything in reply other than calling my credibility into question without substantiation.
    So you are very experienced, huh? You must be some kind of great famous photographer to be able to pass comments on the experience of others. So our great and famous photographer cum scholar have to go by specs and books when he is taking photographs. Wonder how many books you bring with you during your photoshoot. Since you mention signature, I admire your guts in putting a signature which reflects your proud character accurately.

  11. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,911

    Default

    Again, where's your substance? Nothing but more name calling, no reference to the issues under discussion. And I'm proud? Sorry, but you're the one who's claiming to be the greatly experienced one to start with. I've already pointed out one thread where you show your lack of experience.

    And as to pride and arrogance, lest we forget, let's remind everyone that this is the person who proudly boasted that the reason no one got good service at Alan Photo was because, unlike him, they hadn't bought an EOS1D from AP.

    And also, in a conversation about the D60 here, this is the guy who jumped in with the perfectly random comment that "To match the 1D at 8fps, you need two D60s and another camera that shoots at 2fps"

    Who's the proud showoff?

  12. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Northwest
    Posts
    5,011

    Default

    Let's hold back on the personal attacks first...

    Based entirely on the manufacturer's specifications, SB80DX seems more powerfull than the 550EX, but only by 5.5% at the 35mm zoom setting.

    Taking into consideration the following:

    - manufacturer's "massaging" of the published specs
    - measurement condition and accuracy (or inaccuracy?)
    - unit to unit variations (electrical and mechanical tolerances)
    - degradation over the product's life

    I would be very satisfied if a particular unit's actual guide number comes within +/- 10% of the manufacturer's specs (assuming I have a means to measure that). Technically I don't think it is possible to guarentee better than 15%. The reason I say that is because as an electrical engineer, I know that the tolerance of the electrolytic capacitor used to store the energy before "pouring" it into the flash tube usually has a capacitance tolerance of +/-20%. I can elaborate on electronic flash designs if anyone is interested, but I am not here to show off. Just want to substantiate my point. (So that I do not fall into the category of people described by Jed's signature ).

    Even though I would not make a sweeping statement to say that either one model is consistently more powerful than the other, unless the spec numbers are more than 20% apart, I would also not make the statement that between any 2 units, there is not perceivable difference in the maximum output power.

    This is very important, and I feel is the trigger for all the heated argument.

    mylau based his conclusion on the 2 units that he has owned. He made a casual remark about the relative output power, based on his own perception, but it sounded like a sweeping statement.

    I would have no problem believing that the 2 units he owned has a relative output power difference of more than 20%. If he takes enough shots with the subject at 30 meters with the flash at 35mm setting, I would also beleive that there will be a perceivable difference, as the weaker flash might underexpose the subject.

    Though mylau may not have tested the 2 units scientifically (meaning to take pictures with both systems under the same condition that will require maximum output power from the flash)to compare the relative outut power, I feel that he is only being human to make a judgement on that aspect after taking many shots with both systems. He has indirectly pointed out that his statement is subjective.

    My advice to mylau is to qualify his statements better in future.

    All my comments are based on this thread only.
    As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning and meaningful statements lose precision.

  13. #33

    Default

    Originally posted by roygoh
    Let's hold back on the personal attacks first...

    Based entirely on the manufacturer's specifications, SB80DX seems more powerfull than the 550EX, but only by 5.5% at the 35mm zoom setting.

    Taking into consideration the following:

    - manufacturer's "massaging" of the published specs
    - measurement condition and accuracy (or inaccuracy?)
    - unit to unit variations (electrical and mechanical tolerances)
    - degradation over the product's life

    I would be very satisfied if a particular unit's actual guide number comes within +/- 10% of the manufacturer's specs (assuming I have a means to measure that). Technically I don't think it is possible to guarentee better than 15%. The reason I say that is because as an electrical engineer, I know that the tolerance of the electrolytic capacitor used to store the energy before "pouring" it into the flash tube usually has a capacitance tolerance of +/-20%. I can elaborate on electronic flash designs if anyone is interested, but I am not here to show off. Just want to substantiate my point. (So that I do not fall into the category of people described by Jed's signature ).

    Even though I would not make a sweeping statement to say that either one model is consistently more powerful than the other, unless the spec numbers are more than 20% apart, I would also not make the statement that between any 2 units, there is not perceivable difference in the maximum output power.

    This is very important, and I feel is the trigger for all the heated argument.

    mylau based his conclusion on the 2 units that he has owned. He made a casual remark about the relative output power, based on his own perception, but it sounded like a sweeping statement.

    I would have no problem believing that the 2 units he owned has a relative output power difference of more than 20%. If he takes enough shots with the subject at 30 meters with the flash at 35mm setting, I would also beleive that there will be a perceivable difference, as the weaker flash might underexpose the subject.

    Though mylau may not have tested the 2 units scientifically (meaning to take pictures with both systems under the same condition that will require maximum output power from the flash)to compare the relative outut power, I feel that he is only being human to make a judgement on that aspect after taking many shots with both systems. He has indirectly pointed out that his statement is subjective.

    My advice to mylau is to qualify his statements better in future.

    All my comments are based on this thread only.
    Roygoh, thanks for your advice.

  14. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Originally posted by roygoh
    ..... I know that the tolerance of the electrolytic capacitor used to store the energy before "pouring" it into the flash tube usually has a capacitance tolerance of +/-20%. I can elaborate on electronic flash designs if anyone is interested, but I am not here to show off. Just want to substantiate my point. (So that I do not fall into the category of people described by Jed's signature )......
    Yes, I can vouch for that. To add further, the general capacitance tolerance is +/- 20%, which we called it the 'M' tolerance. However, there are a few more classes of tolerance, +/- 10% called the 'K' tolerance, +/- 5% called the 'J' tolerance.

    But then again, in my 2+ years in the manufacturing of capacitors, I have yet to receive any customers' orders with the tighter tolerances as mentioned above.

  15. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,911

    Default

    Originally posted by roygoh
    (So that I do not fall into the category of people described by Jed's signature ).
    I don't think there was much danger of that happening. It's usually fairly obvious when someone knows what they're talking about and when they don't. Your post has a good line of reasoning developed logically and with a good foundation of facts and figures.

  16. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Northwest
    Posts
    5,011

    Default

    Originally posted by Jed


    I don't think there was much danger of that happening. It's usually fairly obvious when someone knows what they're talking about and when they don't. Your post has a good line of reasoning developed logically and with a good foundation of facts and figures.
    Thanks, Jed.
    As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning and meaningful statements lose precision.

  17. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Northwest
    Posts
    5,011

    Default

    Originally posted by Goondu


    Yes, I can vouch for that. To add further, the general capacitance tolerance is +/- 20%, which we called it the 'M' tolerance. However, there are a few more classes of tolerance, +/- 10% called the 'K' tolerance, +/- 5% called the 'J' tolerance.

    But then again, in my 2+ years in the manufacturing of capacitors, I have yet to receive any customers' orders with the tighter tolerances as mentioned above.
    Wah, got lobang for my next project already!!!

    Now, who makes capacitors in Singapore/Malaysia? Matsushita? Rubycon? Elna?
    As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning and meaningful statements lose precision.

  18. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,292

    Default

    Originally posted by roygoh


    Wah, got lobang for my next project already!!!

    Now, who makes capacitors in Singapore/Malaysia? Matsushita? Rubycon? Elna?
    There are 2 more well-known companies: Nichicon and Chemicon. Nichicon Singapore is in the process of shifting their manufacturing operations to Malaysia due to high costs.

    IMHO, these companies will either be relocating to Batam or China sooner or later. I may be out of a job then.

    I am at your disposal. Just let me know what you want and I will see what I can do to assist.

  19. #39

    Default

    Originally posted by Jed
    Again, where's your substance? Nothing but more name calling, no reference to the issues under discussion. And I'm proud? Sorry, but you're the one who's claiming to be the greatly experienced one to start with. I've already pointed out one thread where you show your lack of experience.

    And as to pride and arrogance, lest we forget, let's remind everyone that this is the person who proudly boasted that the reason no one got good service at Alan Photo was because, unlike him, they hadn't bought an EOS1D from AP.

    And also, in a conversation about the D60 here, this is the guy who jumped in with the perfectly random comment that "To match the 1D at 8fps, you need two D60s and another camera that shoots at 2fps"

    Who's the proud showoff?
    You seem to be holding some prejudice against me, i think that explains why you keep flaming my postings.

    As far as I am concerned, I am not guilty of the crimes that you mentioned above. You keep telling people to base conclusions from logical reasonings and to be supported by facts and figures. I think I have to remind you that the claims that you make in this post does not seem to be in accordance to what you preached.

    You have never asked my intentions of posting my comments, eg "To match the 1D at 8fps, you need two D60s another camera that shoots at 2fps", and then you deduce your own conclusions. Do you think you are being fair?

    You like to give others advice, that's good. However, do you need to demean others in the process of giving advice?

    You may not like me, but that does not give you any right to accuse me of anything. eg. "Just another example of spouting and then trying to cook up some fancy excuse"

    If you don't like anything I say, I'm sure that you can practise more courtesy and be nice about it.

    To end off this post, I would like to apologise to you for being sacarstic in my previous post. If you insist that I am one hell of an idiot who deserved to be flamed to death, I'm afraid that this is the last time that I am going to communicate with you.

  20. #40

    Default

    Originally posted by YSLee


    I'm not really interested the differences in power here, it's a damn small difference; what I'm more interested in how our self styled guru of equipment is shooting his mouth off and providiing information based on so-called experience.
    You don't have to call me names, right?

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •