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Thread: Speedlites

  1. #1

    Default Speedlites

    Just wonder which is more powerful, the Canon EX 550 of the Nikon SB-80 Dx?
    Of course they are not inter-compatiable right?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Speedlites

    Originally posted by Jethro
    Just wonder which is more powerful, the Canon EX 550 of the Nikon SB-80 Dx?
    Of course they are not inter-compatiable right?
    The are roughly the same GN, but their GNs are given at different conditions, so the 550EX SEEMS more powerful.

    Regards
    CK

  3. #3

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    I've used both; 550EX is more powerful, but not by very much.

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    Originally posted by mylau
    I've used both; 550EX is more powerful, but not by very much.
    Sorry, but if it's "not much", then how did you tell? AFAIK, the 550EX is rated at a different focal length, that's why on paper, it looks more powerful.

    Regards
    CK

  5. #5

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    mylau: I'm sorry, have you ever used the SB-80DX? And what did you base your comment on the 550EX being more powerful? Testing with a flash meter in a controlled environment? Comparing numbers on a piece of paper? Or vauge memories when using both flashes at different places in a wide variety of lighting conditions?

    Jethro, you can only use the TTL abilities on Canon and Nikon cameras respectively, but you can use manual and auto sensor mode with either flash on either camera body (though kinda defeats the purpose of spending so much on an advanced flash).

  6. #6

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    Originally posted by ckiang


    Sorry, but if it's "not much", then how did you tell? AFAIK, the 550EX is rated at a different focal length, that's why on paper, it looks more powerful.

    Regards
    CK
    By using my eyes to see! Shooting at the same environment using two different cameras. Using my canon system, the 550EX is able to flash at a longer range than the nikon system.

    This may seem rather unscientific, but after shooting hundreds or maybe thousands of photos using both flash units, I am confident in my statement: 550EX is a bit more powerful than SB-80DX

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    Originally posted by mylau


    By using my eyes to see! Shooting at the same environment using two different cameras. Using my canon system, the 550EX is able to flash at a longer range than the nikon system.

    This may seem rather unscientific, but after shooting hundreds or maybe thousands of photos using both flash units, I am confident in my statement: 550EX is a bit more powerful than SB-80DX
    If eyes are so accurate, then Canon won't need Evaluative metering, Nikon won't need 3D Matrix metering, Minolta won't need to make the Meter V, Sekonic won't need the L608.

    As you said, it's rather unscientific, so how do you tell it's more powerful? And you probably tested them at different locations, with different lighting conditions as well. So it's not going to be a good gauge.

    And are you shooting the Canon at maximum zoom, and the Nikon at minimum? That sort of thing matters a lot, and does give you a false impression of power.

    I still say that under normal conditions, GN for both flashes are the same, or similar.

    Regards
    CK

  8. #8

    Default

    Originally posted by mylau


    By using my eyes to see! Shooting at the same environment using two different cameras. Using my canon system, the 550EX is able to flash at a longer range than the nikon system.
    Right, so what flash mode were you in? TTL? What were the zoom heads on each flash placed at? What exposure mode were the cameras in? What lenses were used? What film did you use for each camera? I'm sorry, your "same environment" is starting to sound very uncontrolled.


    This may seem rather unscientific,
    Good, you know it sounds unscientific, so why put your foot in your mouth?

  9. #9
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    Default

    Ok, here goes.

    From Nikon's website, the SB80DX has a GN of 125 feet with the zoom head at 35mm position.

    http://www.nikonusa.com/usa_product/...ductNr=4717NAS

    From Canon's website, on first look the 550EX has a GN of an incredible 180!! Going into the specs page at http://www.usa.canon.com/html/camera...550exspec.html , we see that:

    the GN of 180 (182 actually) is achieved with the zoom head at 105mm.

    According to the GN table, at 35mm, the GN is a mere 119 ft.

    So, the 80DX is actually more powerful!

    And this is based on manufacturer specs, not my eyes.

    Regards
    CK

  10. #10

    Default

    My dear friend, not all things need to be measured and gauged accurately using precise instruments. There is this thing call experience. You don't need to measure the amount of light in a room to decide which ISO film to use, do you?

    I shoot in my work place many times for more than 3 years, using two different systems. From the thousands of photographs that I produced, it is not difficult for me to tell which is the more powerful flash. I shoot the stage many times. The 550ex is able to reach places where the sb80dx could not reach. I always switch lenses in between shoots. Safe to say that I have used a variety of lenses with each flash unit.

    Many years ago, I learned photography by judging f-stop and shutter speed simply by looking at the subject. No light meters were allowed. We do not rely on equipment to set our exposures.

    What I conclude here is based on my experience. Not scientific, not trying to say canon is better than nikon, but just sharing my experience.

  11. #11
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    Default

    Originally posted by mylau
    My dear friend, not all things need to be measured and gauged accurately using precise instruments. There is this thing call experience. You don't need to measure the amount of light in a room to decide which ISO film to use, do you?

    I shoot in my work place many times for more than 3 years, using two different systems. From the thousands of photographs that I produced, it is not difficult for me to tell which is the more powerful flash. I shoot the stage many times. The 550ex is able to reach places where the sb80dx could not reach. I always switch lenses in between shoots. Safe to say that I have used a variety of lenses with each flash unit.

    Many years ago, I learned photography by judging f-stop and shutter speed simply by looking at the subject. No light meters were allowed. We do not rely on equipment to set our exposures.

    What I conclude here is based on my experience. Not scientific, not trying to say canon is better than nikon, but just sharing my experience.
    I believe you sold your D1X before the SB80DX is even launched? So I am assuming you have not used it before (neither have I, I use the 28). But as you can see from the specs, while the 550EX is very slightly more powerful than a SB28 (GN 118 @ 35mm) with a GN of 119 ft, the 80DX is obviously more powerful. And I am not making any baseless claims.

    The manufacturer specs speak for themselves.

    Regards
    CK

  12. #12

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    Originally posted by ckiang


    I believe you sold your D1X before the SB80DX is even launched? So I am assuming you have not used it before (neither have I, I use the 28). But as you can see from the specs, while the 550EX is very slightly more powerful than a SB28 (GN 118 @ 35mm) with a GN of 119 ft, the 80DX is obviously more powerful. And I am not making any baseless claims.

    The manufacturer specs speak for themselves.

    Regards
    CK
    You should not jump to conclusions. Selling my D1X doesn't mean that I do not have another nikon camera. It is very wrong to make baseless assumptions.

    I do not wish to argue with you over this anymore. If you choose to believe in specs and figures so much, so be it!

  13. #13

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    Originally posted by YSLee


    Right, so what flash mode were you in? TTL? What were the zoom heads on each flash placed at? What exposure mode were the cameras in? What lenses were used? What film did you use for each camera? I'm sorry, your "same environment" is starting to sound very uncontrolled.



    Good, you know it sounds unscientific, so why put your foot in your mouth?
    I'm just sharing what I feel about the 2 flash units. If you don't agree, I don't have to explain further on how I derive my conclusion.

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    Default

    I'd not normally buy in to this one however here goes ...

    GN's for the SB80Dx
    14mm - 17
    24mm - 32
    35mm - 38
    50mm - 44
    70mm - 50
    85mm - 53
    105mm - 56

    GN's for the 550EX
    14mm - 15
    24mm - 28
    35mm - 36
    50mm - 42
    70mm - 46
    80mm - 50
    105mm - 55

    All GN's are in meters.

    Guess that answers the question on paper, the SB-80Dx is more powerful .. just. However it should be noted that flash gear GN's are generally only accurate to 1/3rd stop or so, so there may be individual flash unit varience from the stated specifications.

    sources.

    YS Lee for the SB-80Dx GN's

    Canon 550EX specifications
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

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    Default

    Originally posted by YSLee
    mylau: I'm sorry, have you ever used the SB-80DX? And what did you base your comment on the 550EX being more powerful? Testing with a flash meter in a controlled environment? Comparing numbers on a piece of paper? Or vauge memories when using both flashes at different places in a wide variety of lighting conditions?

    Jethro, you can only use the TTL abilities on Canon and Nikon cameras respectively, but you can use manual and auto sensor mode with either flash on either camera body (though kinda defeats the purpose of spending so much on an advanced flash).
    oh i think flaming is going to start

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    Default

    Hmm, I really should make it a habit to read more random threads... they every now and then prove rewarding...

    Firstly, why compare the two? It's a completely moot comparison. And then Mylau:

    By using my eyes to see! Shooting at the same environment using two different cameras. Using my canon system, the 550EX is able to flash at a longer range than the nikon system.

    Using your eyes to see? A GN of 55 versus 56 at 105mm is about a 2% difference. Or about 1/50th of a stop. Sorry, but the human eye isn't that sensitive.

    And I'm not buying your experience factor either, if anything, your words just reveal your inexperience. You know a flash is underperforming not by what your eyes see, but what you realise when it doesn't pump out enough juice when you shoot.

    This may seem rather unscientific, but after shooting hundreds or maybe thousands of photos using both flash units, I am confident in my statement: 550EX is a bit more powerful than SB-80DX

    Without meaning to be funny... great for you. That sounds like about an afternoon's work for me. Well done. Glad to see you're putting all that expensive equipment to some use.

    My dear friend, not all things need to be measured and gauged accurately using precise instruments. There is this thing call experience. You don't need to measure the amount of light in a room to decide which ISO film to use, do you?

    Right. And neither do you need to measure the amount of light in a room to decide whether to use flash or not right? Sure you don't need to measure to decide what ISO film to use... but do you measure what aperture and shutter speed to use? Or do you use your eyes? After all they seem accurate to 1/50th of a stop...

    I shoot in my work place many times for more than 3 years, using two different systems. From the thousands of photographs that I produced, it is not difficult for me to tell which is the more powerful flash. I shoot the stage many times. The 550ex is able to reach places where the sb80dx could not reach. I always switch lenses in between shoots. Safe to say that I have used a variety of lenses with each flash unit.

    As CK has already said, the SB80DX hasn't been out long. Sure, you may still have a Nikon camera, but your words attempt to suggest that you have been largely experienced with both over the period of 3 years. Sorry... the SB80DX hasn't been out 3 months. Just another example of spouting and then trying to cook up some fancy excuse.

    Selling my D1X doesn't mean that I do not have another nikon camera. It is very wrong to make baseless assumptions.

    You're certainly right. With you I wouldn't be surprised really. Is there anything you haven't bought yet? Maybe it's not your fault: I suppose you do have to keep buying expensive stuff so you continue to get good service from AP...

    Many years ago, I learned photography by judging f-stop and shutter speed simply by looking at the subject. No light meters were allowed. We do not rely on equipment to set our exposures.

    Wow. Maybe ignore my above. Maybe you are superhuman after all. I suppose you'll go check up in books or online, but I don't suppose you know how many times brighter a cloudcast day is than normal residential flourescent lighting? Oh what I would give for a live conversation.

    If you choose to believe in specs and figures so much, so be it!

    So after someone throws in the small fact that on paper the SB80DX is more powerful, suddenly you toss the specs. So I suppose the EOS1D also has more resolution than the D1x, which is why you bought it instead, despite what the specs said? Maybe the D1x really shoots faster than the EOS1D's 8fps? Who knows... after all, cannot believe in specs and figures so much!

    Sorry but while specs aren't everything (all manufacturer's overstate guide numbers anyway, at least not overstate but conduct tests in highly favourable conditions), I wouldn't trust an eyeball of the situation, much less yours. I'm not seeing much evidence of credible experience, or theory for that matter.

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    I remember a recent web report on testing NiMH batteries. Batteries from different manufacturers were tested against the capacity ratings, and the results show that there is significant difference in performance (in terms of capacity) between the different brands.

    In some cases, a 1600mAH rated product actually delivered more juice than a 1800mAH rated product from a different company.

    Unless there is an independent lab that tested both the flash under the same condition with the same measurement equipment, I would not rely my judgement on the GN specifications published by the manufacturers.
    As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning and meaningful statements lose precision.

  18. #18
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    Ok ok, let me clarify. I'm saying again that specs are not always reliable, as I said in my post, manufacturers massage figures to start with. Any difference is, if nothing else, likely to be purely academic.

    The issue is really with the way mylau has reached his decision.

  19. #19

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    Originally posted by roygoh

    Unless there is an independent lab that tested both the flash under the same condition with the same measurement equipment, I would not rely my judgement on the GN specifications published by the manufacturers.
    I'm not really interested the differences in power here, it's a damn small difference; what I'm more interested in how our self styled guru of equipment is shooting his mouth off and providiing information based on so-called experience.

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    Originally posted by YSLee


    I'm not really interested the differences in power here, it's a damn small difference; what I'm more interested in how our self styled guru of equipment is shooting his mouth off and providiing information based on so-called experience.
    I am also interested in that.
    As complexity rises, precise statements lose meaning and meaningful statements lose precision.

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