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Thread: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

  1. #61
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    Personally for me as I don't have the practice (as of this writing) to use TFCD shots to sell as stock photos hence I seldom have the practice of asking model who approach me to sign model release form. Because I don't earn monetarily from my TFCD shoot.

    Currently I would ask model (paid) to sign it for my commercial and product shoots for my clients. As I feel it's abit unfair for TFCD model to do the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79 View Post
    ok, i also feel unfair or a bit extra to ask TFCD models to sign this model release since its only meant for my own portfolio and their own portfolio.

    my photos i dun think good enough to sell yet (can see only), so i shall kiv this part for the time being.
    I state this is my term upfront, and it is also a common practice among stock images shooters around the world.

    bear in mind that the images I create need to be have certain quality, and also it is also has to be stock worthy, merchantable.

    some of my models are very please to see their photos appear in advertisements.

    I also understand some of the models don't wish their photos to be use for stock images, that is fine with me, "no model release no shoot". But on the other hand, some models don't mind their photos of them in bikini or lingerie appear in some sleazy sites, tho I don't really understand but am not interested to find out why, that is their choice anyway.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I state this is my term upfront, and it is also a common practice among stock images shooters around the world.

    bear in mind that the images I create need to be have certain quality, and also it is also has to be stock worthy, merchantable.

    some of my models are very please to see their photos appear in advertisements.

    I also understand some of the models don't wish their photos to be use for stock images, that is fine with me, "no model release no shoot". But on the other hand, some models don't mind their photos of them in bikini or lingerie appear in some sleazy sites, tho I don't really understand but am not interested to find out why, that is their choice anyway.

    Maybe my services have not expanded to stock photography yet... haha...

    A friend of mine did a stock photography when she was started out modelling when she was young. A couple of years later when she is no longer in this industry, her photos (bikini shots) was in poster & banner in a local shopping center. By then she is a lecturer with MOE and she have a tough time answering to the parents' inquiries.

    But like Benjamin had mention before, it's their choice. To me I always advise my models not to do something when you are young that you may regret later in your working life.

  3. #63
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post

    A friend of mine did a stock photography when she was started out modelling when she was young. A couple of years later when she is no longer in this industry, her photos (bikini shots) was in poster & banner in a local shopping center. By then she is a lecturer with MOE and she have a tough time answering to the parents' inquiries.
    i can imagine the jaw drop moments of those parents who saw the posters/banners

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    Currently in my TFCD's term & conditions it include specify that photos should not be use/sold for monetary gains such as stock photography & advertising without the approval of the photographer.
    Classic case that happened before.

    Model shoot TFCD with photographer.
    Few months later, image appeared in an in house mag.
    Model claim she was not paid as it is for some gov. health awareness thingy
    Problem is the release state "not be use/sold for monetary gains" and the mag editor confirm no money change hands

    Though the photographer still got paid in the end, it was more a token and as expected, things were ugly all round.

    Better just to state "all images created are meant only for the purpose of self promotion of the model, Mr/Ms XXXXXXX and the photographer Mr/Ms XXXXX and are not to be used for any other purpose."
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  5. #65

    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post

    as for cosplay, i have attended one event, never went back again. was extremely disgusted when my friend asked someone she knew to the side to pose against a cleaner background, then whole load of guys (probably from one of those mass groups here) just rushed over and stepped on my feet, pushed my friend (female) aside, and started snapping away.
    you should whack them with your tripod
    I think its not limited to cosplay event, its the society in general. We've lost our manner and graciousness

  6. #66

    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    A friend of mine did a stock photography when she was started out modelling when she was young. A couple of years later when she is no longer in this industry, her photos (bikini shots) was in poster & banner in a local shopping center. By then she is a lecturer with MOE and she have a tough time answering to the parents' inquiries.

    But like Benjamin had mention before, it's their choice. To me I always advise my models not to do something when you are young that you may regret later in your working life.
    not just working life.

    some of these girls just think about the short term, then they just play and pose. 10 years later, they are regretting it because people who have seen these photos have a bad impression of them. open-minded or not, it is hard to avoid this scenario in singapore. some might even face the trouble of continual harassment from hard-up people who think that such photos make them "easy".

    hence appearing in such photos is a much bigger decision than most girls realise at the time of said decision.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    not just working life.

    some of these girls just think about the short term, then they just play and pose. 10 years later, they are regretting it because people who have seen these photos have a bad impression of them. open-minded or not, it is hard to avoid this scenario in singapore. some might even face the trouble of continual harassment from hard-up people who think that such photos make them "easy".

    hence appearing in such photos is a much bigger decision than most girls realise at the time of said decision.
    I agree.. esp true for stock photography which maybe used all over the world. And since the model had signed a release form. Typically their stock photos maybe also be purchase by some sleazy sites as well. And since like what Benjamin mention: "common practice among stock images shooters around the world." to do TFCD hence I am assuming that the models are not paid a single cent for her hard work.

    Is it really worth for a model to do it?
    Last edited by Anson; 8th December 2010 at 12:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    not just working life.

    some of these girls just think about the short term, then they just play and pose. 10 years later, they are regretting it because people who have seen these photos have a bad impression of them. open-minded or not, it is hard to avoid this scenario in singapore. some might even face the trouble of continual harassment from hard-up people who think that such photos make them "easy".

    hence appearing in such photos is a much bigger decision than most girls realise at the time of said decision.
    i second this. while many young girls (yes. majority of cosplayers seems to be female) think their act cute poses are cute, and being shot from "weird, obscene angles" is artistic, what they dun realize is that it may come back to bite them.

    i have even heard that some paid models, who do lingerie shots, end up having their photos posted in some weird asian adult forums. i dun think i have to spell out the url. i believe it was mentioned somewhere in our forums. i believe my brief encounter with such allegations can be viewed here...

    i'll say that there are risks. models shldnt ignorantly let photographers shoot. and photographers have to be ethical abt it too.
    Last edited by allenleonhart; 8th December 2010 at 12:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    I agree.. esp true for stock photography which maybe used all over the world. And since the model had signed a release form. Typically their stock photos maybe also be purchase by some sleazy sites as well. And since like what Benjamin mention: "common practice among stock images shooters around the world." to do TFCD hence I am assuming that the models are not paid a single cent for her hard work.

    Is it really worth for a model to do it?
    Models or talents who shoot stocks on a TFCD basis have the assurence that the photographer will try his best to get good marketable images as he wants to sell them as stocks. Think that makes it worth their time liow
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  10. #70
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Models or talents who shoot stocks on a TFCD basis have the assurence that the photographer will try his best to get good marketable images as he wants to sell them as stocks. Think that makes it worth their time liow
    I agree that the photo must be marketable to sell as stocks photography. Nevertheless as the usage rights is normally dictated by the stock agency's policy, often even photographers does have a final say on it's usage *but he/she does have monetary gain to it's use).


    That what got me thinking, if it's worth it for a model's time and maybe her future employment to do TFCD for stock photography?

  11. #71
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    I agree.. esp true for stock photography which maybe used all over the world. And since the model had signed a release form. Typically their stock photos maybe also be purchase by some sleazy sites as well. And since like what Benjamin mention: "common practice among stock images shooters around the world." to do TFCD hence I am assuming that the models are not paid a single cent for her hard work.

    Is it really worth for a model to do it?
    I guess you are not very familiar with stock image I'm talking about, most leading stock image agencies don't welcome images contain nudity, or at the fringe of pornography.

    they only accept images has not technical faults, merchantable and also stock image orientated.

    stock shooters only has one goal, "shoot stock images that sell". just go and check out the most popular and most downloaded images from any stock image site, stock shooters only interested to shoot images as such, that is where the money is.

    bear in mind that most stock shooters are not amateurs, a lot of them are full time professional photographers, and some of them are shooting stock images for living.

    stock shooters use professional models and also everyday people, because there are also a huge demand of images with common faces, so there are paid sessions and TFCD sessions being offered, for the TFCD session, the pro models or none pro models are being compensate with images. so even just a few images being given, it will make the models efforts worthwhile.

    Since this is a business to stock shooters, they will keep everything in a professional level.
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  12. #72
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    on the other hand, if you can see from a model point of view, it is worthwhile to have a few commercial images, or a dvd full of act cute, self punching, victory hand sign, poses in cosplay/ bikini/ clubwear wardrobe plus Christmas tree like accessory with porcelain face touchup for portfolio?

    I think only models themself able to answer such question.
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    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I guess you are not very familiar with stock image I'm talking about, most leading stock image agencies don't welcome images contain nudity, or at the fringe of pornography.

    they only accept images has not technical faults, merchantable and also stock image orientated.

    stock shooters only has one goal, "shoot stock images that sell". just go and check out the most popular and most downloaded images from any stock image site, stock shooters only interested to shoot images as such, that is where the money is.

    bear in mind that most stock shooters are not amateurs, a lot of them are full time professional photographers, and some of them are shooting stock images for living.

    stock shooters use professional models and also everyday people, because there are also a huge demand of images with common faces, so there are paid sessions and TFCD sessions being offered, for the TFCD session, the pro models or none pro models are being compensate with images. so even just a few images being given, it will make the models efforts worthwhile.

    Since this is a business to stock shooters, they will keep everything in a professional level.

    Benjamin you are right I am currently not into stock photography. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that image are pornography in nature nor do I question the professionalism of most of the stock photographers.

    But like I say the usage of the stock photo is something that both (pg & model) have no control. And for the model to do TF for it... maybe I would think differently when I am doing stock photography myself..

  14. #74
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    Benjamin you are right I am currently not into stock photography. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that image are pornography in nature nor do I question the professionalism of most of the stock photographers.

    But like I say the usage of the stock photo is something that both (pg & model) have no control. And for the model to do TF for it... maybe I would think differently when I am doing stock photography myself..
    no problem, just to let everyone know that stock image agencies are very strict, is all about business, nobody will want to wasting time and efforts on anything it is not profitable.
    and No, photographers has control over the images submitted....

    never never submit any photos you will regrets later.

    anyway, for stock agencies, there are some conditions which photo buyers need to adhere, they can't use the images anyway they like.

    Prohibited uses for both Standard and Extended license
    Online "print-on-demand" products
    Use in any logo or trademark
    Pornographic, obscene or libelous works
    Use that depicts personal endorsement by model
    Use that depicts model in a sensitive way i.e. mental or physical health issues, substance abuse, criminal behavior, sexual activity or preference without a disclaimer.
    Sub-license, give away, share or otherwise transfer stand-alone images/files
    Displaying an original image digitally on-screen larger than 800 x 600 pixels; video image size limitation is 640 x 480. Any size reproduction is acceptable with substantial changes to the content.
    taken from istock.

    for me, I always let my models (paid or non paying) know upfront, address their concern, and will not use any images which might have any issue in future.
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    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    no problem, just to let everyone know that stock image agencies are very strict, is all about business, nobody will want to wasting time and efforts on anything it is not profitable.
    and No, photographers has control over the images submitted....

    never never submit any photos you will regrets later.

    anyway, for stock agencies, there are some conditions which photo buyers need to adhere, they can't use the images anyway they like.

    taken from istock.

    for me, I always let my models (paid or non paying) know upfront, address their concern, and will not use any images which might have any issue in future.

    Thanks Benjamin for the clarification, it would be useful for everyone (including myself) if we ever thinking of going into the business of stock photography.

    For now my principal of TFCD still remain that both side should not profit monetary from the photo taken.

  16. #76
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    my standard is still far far from stock photography requirements

    i shall continue to practise and practise.

  17. #77
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anson View Post
    Thanks Benjamin for the clarification, it would be useful for everyone (including myself) if we ever thinking of going into the business of stock photography.

    For now my principal of TFCD still remain that both side should not profit monetary from the photo taken.
    to some of my "models", getting images is more worthwhile than being paid, hence the term for them is TFCD.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79 View Post
    my standard is still far far from stock photography requirements

    i shall continue to practise and practise.
    it takes years to build up a sizable stock image portfolio, you can start now, anyway, you will learn along the way, it will help you to be a better photographer too.
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  18. #78
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    it takes years to build up a sizable stock image portfolio, you can start now, anyway, you will learn along the way, it will help you to be a better photographer too.
    just curious, since which year you started?

    is there a minimum submission each month required? or we can submit as and when we want?

    any tips to sign up for which stock photography site that have a higher acceptance rate and can accept standards like mine (eg less stricter) ?

    another question - if i am already using those photos (such as posting on forums and on my portfolio site) that i wish to submit for stock photography, will it be accepted? or these photos must never be uploaded to the internet other then the stock photography site that i signed up for?
    Last edited by sinned79; 8th December 2010 at 05:36 PM.

  19. #79
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79 View Post
    just curious, since which year you started?

    is there a minimum submission each month required? or we can submit as and when we want?

    any tips to sign up for which stock photography site that have a higher acceptance rate and can accept standards like mine (eg less stricter) ?

    another question - if i am already using those photos (such as posting on forums and on my portfolio site) that i wish to submit for stock photography, will it be accepted? or these photos must never be uploaded to the internet other then the stock photography site that i signed up for?
    we are talking about RF stock sites now, conventional stock images the entry bar is even higher.

    first thing first, stock image is not about making some quick bucks, it take years to build, just like any other business, but the main things is your photos are able to sell multiple times over a span of few years, the more photos you have, the more you able to make.

    To sign up stock image site is free, but you may need to take a test and submit sample photos for approval, you need to upload a scan copy of your passport, you also need a paypal account for them to pay you.

    istock is the hardest to get in, you can consider dreamstime, shutterstock, the rest can try try, but to me the earning are not really justify my time. no offend, perhaps is just that my images are not in demand in their collection.

    most sites don't have minimum submission, but some sites have quota for upload limit.

    not all images submission will be accepted, some sites will lower your upload quota if your acceptance rate falls below certain level.

    the basic requirement;
    no visible logo, brand name, patent design in the photos.
    all reconcilable figures need model release.
    all reconcilable buildings, structures, need property release.
    all photos should be free from any technical flaw, OFF, noise, wrong WB, blurriness, CA, incorrect exposure etc.

    you can submit your photos to multiple sites, but once you go exclusive with any of a site, you can't sell your images thru any other sites or your own site, using your photos as portfolio is not a restriction.

    hope this help.
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  20. #80
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disscussion on Time for CD/Print (TFCD/TFP)

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    we are talking about RF stock sites now, conventional stock images the entry bar is even higher.

    first thing first, stock image is not about making some quick bucks, it take years to build, just like any other business, but the main things is your photos are able to sell multiple times over a span of few years, the more photos you have, the more you able to make.

    To sign up stock image site is free, but you may need to take a test and submit sample photos for approval, you need to upload a scan copy of your passport, you also need a paypal account for them to pay you.

    istock is the hardest to get in, you can consider dreamstime, shutterstock, the rest can try try, but to me the earning are not really justify my time. no offend, perhaps is just that my images are not in demand in their collection.

    most sites don't have minimum submission, but some sites have quota for upload limit.

    not all images submission will be accepted, some sites will lower your upload quota if your acceptance rate falls below certain level.

    the basic requirement;
    no visible logo, brand name, patent design in the photos.
    all reconcilable figures need model release.
    all reconcilable buildings, structures, need property release.
    all photos should be free from any technical flaw, OFF, noise, wrong WB, blurriness, CA, incorrect exposure etc.

    you can submit your photos to multiple sites, but once you go exclusive with any of a site, you can't sell your images thru any other sites or your own site, using your photos as portfolio is not a restriction.

    hope this help.
    thanks for the info!

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