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Thread: complicated video-graphy question

  1. #21

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Quote Originally Posted by michael chick View Post
    Nat Geo has refused DV/ Mini DV since at least 6 years ago.
    Digi-Beta is the way to go.


    You can watch this Trailer for the Doco which I'm presently working on.

    So far, no one has been able to pin-point which Camera, the Brand nor the type of lenses used.
    (except for the obvious infra-red, hidden cam, and surveillance footage)



    Trailer is here:
    www.therighttolivefoundation.com



    Hope this inspires you mrksin..
    wow. looks very well done...

    seems like what i'm into.

    the footage matches well, video edited pretty well.. but the narration.. i think it'd be better off being words on the screen. haha. just some opinion.

    don't mind my unprofessional comments anyway, haha.

    well. i'm also intending on visiting south east asia, as a graduation trip. and hopefully gain some experience as to what documenting the trip would be like.

    i'm more of a.. nat geo adventure/wild genre. though as a nat geo employee, one must be open to all genres.

    thanks Michael.

  2. #22

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Quote Originally Posted by michael chick View Post

    So far, no one has been able to pin-point which Camera, the Brand nor the type of lenses used.
    (except for the obvious infra-red, hidden cam, and surveillance footage)
    With a high grade broadcast CRT monitor, I could only tell the difference between untreated DV, BetaSP, DVCPro, DVCPro50 & Digibeta footage....80% accurate, but can't tell specifics to which camera though.

    For HD, I can only tell roughly between HDV/AVCHD vs. XDCAM/DVCProHD vs. HDCAM if footage is shot properly....usually 60%-70% accurate by identifying the characteristics of the image especially the compression & noise level.
    DXNMedia.net
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  3. #23
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    My opinion is this:

    It is good to have dreams. But realizing that dream needs perseverance, research, planning, milestones in smaller steps and a a good grounding in reality. Imagination is your best friend in creativity but also your worse enemy in execution.

    Good luck in your future endeavors.

  4. #24

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    @ DXNMedia, I couldn't agree with you more !!!

    And my point is exactly that !! When footage is properly shot, (and given the appropriate post-treatment), it is irrelevant what camera make or model is used. And that was my entire point to mrksin. He just needs to get out there and shoot it right.

    @ mrksin Text on the screen? Which movie has text? PowerPoint has text. Films do not. And documentaries definitely should not. Can you imagine if you had to read an entire BBC Doco? That would be tedious. Already humans are lazy bums who prefer to watch the film, rather than read. (few do both)

    I've worked in the industry for the past 18 years, and when our camera sponsors saw the Trailer (link) which I listed above, they were simply shocked, and couldn't believe that it was shot with their cameras. At first they thought we used our own Arriflex, Bolex, Bell & Howell or Panavision.

    Try looking at the image below, and identify the camera make, model, and the lens used. I've been saying this to fellow CS'ers many times already.

    Sharpen your skill, and NOT your lens





    (ps... I think I'm beginning to piss off camera shop owners and camera salesmen, by overtly stating the above already.... sheesh)
    Last edited by michael chick; 29th November 2010 at 08:39 AM.

  5. #25
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Quote Originally Posted by michael chick View Post
    And my point is exactly that !! When footage is properly shot, (and given the appropriate post-treatment), it is irrelevant what camera make or model is used. And that was my entire point to mrksin. He just needs to get out there and shoot it right.
    Sharpen your skill, and NOT your lens
    Bro, we understand your experience and applaud your achievements. We are impressed with your work. And we know your skills have attained the level where gear do not matter as much because you have the experience and the know-how to get around limitations in gear.

    I certainly agree with you that sharpening skills is more important than any thing.

    That said, I hope you read what parameters TS is working under:

    - He is going to travel soon and wants to shoot this trip and sell to Nat Geo.
    - He has no real production level video shooting experience.
    - He has no fundamentals in video shooting.
    - He has no fundamental understanding in the technical side as well.
    - He certainly has no experience in planning a production, writing a script or creating a storyboard.
    - He has a very strict budget of 500 only for all equipment and post processing and editing.

    Looking at what TS wants to accomplish, with what he can bring to the table, for the budget he is looking for. He can go out and shoot... but he will certainly blotch up this travel shoot and it may become more of a home-video than anything,

    And would Nat Geo buy his documentary?... lets not answer that... but would you? even he is willing to sell it to you at cost at $500? I know I wouldn't.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 29th November 2010 at 08:56 AM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    @ Daredevil123

    Bro, we understand your experience and applaud your achievements. We are impressed with your work. And we know your skills have attained the level where gear do not matter as much because you have the experience and the know-how to get around limitations in gear.
    I certainly agree with you that sharpening skills is more important than any thing.
    MC: Yo Bro, I just gave 4 training sessions, 1 in Burma, 1 in Thailand, 1 in Samosir and 1 in Medan. All to NGO/ Humanitarian groups. And was specifically teaching them "Guerrilla Filmmaking". Their biggest lament was that they did not have "Pro Equipment".
    And in ONE quick on-site location demo, showed them how to maximize their camera. Am very sure they will remember this from now on.
    My only "requirement" is that the camera has full-manual modes. And that includes manual-focus override...


    That said, I hope you read what parameters TS is working under:

    - He is going to travel soon and wants to shoot this trip and sell to Nat Geo.
    MC: Some people believe that getting something on Nat Geo is like winning the lottery. This could not be further from the truth.


    - He has no real production level video shooting experience.
    - He has no fundamentals in video shooting.
    - He has no fundamental understanding in the technical side as well.
    MC: Not to mention CGI's animations and/or getting a competent team to work with.


    - He certainly has no experience in planning a production, writing a script or creating a storyboard.
    MC: Storyboard a Doco? WOW !! That's gonna be ambitious !! Hahahaha


    - He has a very strict budget of 500 only for all equipment and post processing and editing.
    MC: I thought he had $500 for the camera only. I assume he's not going to be renting a U-Matic, nor a Moviola. I also assume that he's not going to do contact-masking processing for composites, and that the final would only be the conversion cost for a Digi-Beta tape (coz he's only talking about Nat Geo)


    Looking at what TS wants to accomplish, with what he can bring to the table, for the budget he is looking for. He can go out and shoot... but he will certainly blotch up this travel shoot and it may become more of a home-video than anything,
    MC: Hmmmm, am wondering what the topic is? All over Southeast Asia? That's certainly an ambitious Project.


    And would Nat Geo buy his documentary?... lets not answer that... but would you?
    MC: Me? Hmmmm, if I were to apply CS'er mentality, I'd ask if he shot everything with Cooke Lenses, because they are the sharpest of the sharpest of the sharpest. (The lens cap and rear caps would thus cost more than $500 already) And if it's video, then it must be shot in High Def, and stored on a certain Brand Blue Ray Discs ONLY.

    even he is willing to sell it to you at cost at $500? I know I wouldn't.
    MC: Hmmmmm, on the other hand the footage of the plane hitting the first tower @ NYC was paid several hundred thousand dollars. And that was only shot with a Panasonic 102. So, who knows? He might get a lucky shot somewhere, somehow. But a "lucky shot" is about it. Making an entire film, is a totally different matter. Alternatively, he could just camp in Bangkok, and document the Red T-Shirt guys, or wait for Merapi to explode again, and get close-ups of Lava-Flow. I'm sure Nat Geo would love to see Macro close-ups of Lava Flow. If he wants some adventure, he could follow the Karen Rebels when they have their skirmishes against the Burmese Junta. That news is always welcome everywhere in the world. And no one has really made a film on the life of a Karen Soldier before, during, and after battle. Oh, but his insurance premium would blow through the roof, and the mention of Landmines alone might cause the Premuim to exceed $500. Oh boy oh boy... what should he do ????

    Any other film guys here?

  7. #27
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    I am not a video or film guy btw...

    All I can say is... humility can go a long way...

    And it appears common sense is not so common after all.


  8. #28

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Humility? I think he's just a little over-ambitious, that's all...

    btw, Mt Bromo in East Java just "burped" again yesterday, Maybe he could document the upcoming explosions?

  9. #29
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    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I am not a video or film guy btw...

    All I can say is... humility can go a long way...

    And it appears common sense is not so common after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by michael chick View Post
    Humility? I think he's just a little over-ambitious, that's all...

    btw, Mt Bromo in East Java just "burped" again yesterday, Maybe he could document the upcoming explosions?
    Hi Guys...I can safely say DD123 may be on top in his photography field and MC may also be on top in his videography field. Having said that, both of you may be doing what you do for a living or you may even be a specialist in your respective field.

    For TS, he is a typical green horn with his typical wishful thinking that he can conquer the world with $500. Don't be so quick to thumb him down with brand names that I myself find it difficult to pronounce.

    Remember guys...every great hero stands on the pedestal because he took the first step.
    Dreamz is the Alternate Realty | Stand Up and Be Counted

  10. #30

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Dear Hotwork77, I am typically known as "Hitler" or Slave Driver on a shoot.

    Just like Boot Camp, new initiates are intuitively told that they are Maggots, coz they ARE Maggots.
    This kid wants to join the ranks of Nat Geo. Good dreams. But will get nowhere unless he is correctly put in his place.

    Asking one's relatives, friends and even GF "Is this picture nice", will usually elicit a favorable response.
    "Oh Darling, that is such a nice picture. Did you take it by yourself?"

    Definitely NOT the way to learn. The commercial world is harsh. Better he deal with it now, than to have his bubble burst after he's spent his $500.

    Having said that, I'll have no problems whatsoever taking him under my wing if he proves to be good, just shooting with a cell-phone and a flash-light.

    I love what DD said, "It is good to have dreams. But realizing that dream needs perseverance, research, planning, milestones in smaller steps and a a good grounding in reality. Imagination is your best friend in creativity but also your worse enemy in execution."

    This is so simply true !!!

    Cheers

  11. #31

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    well TS, u got all your questions answered ar....

    Nat Geo, i never even dreamed of trying to get that so called level, as its such a errr.... dont wish to say, may just flame me back..

    Overall, its gonna be hard learning curb for you, trust me i been slaving myself in a certain industry and yet i only have touch the halfway mark, where i cld at least claim i have make it..

    rather than be a fool with no parachute, at least get some lesson and a parachute before u decide to jump off a plane...

    maybe TS cld try to break into the local market, see how things ar... the real dog eat dog environment, politics, backstabbing, under-cutting....
    Last edited by akerue; 29th November 2010 at 12:33 PM.
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  12. #32

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Erm TS, i think just you getting a Sony Vegas Pro software can already empty your pocket.

  13. #33

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    oh man u guys are such great inspiration to me.

    it is true i don't know what i'm plunging into.

    in any sense, i'm not going to try and sell my "documentary" yet.

    i'm just going out there to see if i have the in-born talent.

    then followed by the luck to strike lottery. (to get hired)

    but of course, i would try make it as best as i can, hopefully getting sufficient advice to proceed any further.

    windows movie maker, cheap camcorder.. those will be my starting tools.

    luck and all the amazing advice ya'll be giving me, will be my aid.

    i'm going to vietnam, cambodia, thailand, msia, filming some historical landmarks, hoepfully provide some enriching background about the countries.

    it could be just a 10 minute video, it could turn into a major project. doing lots of homework now... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ughGVUG86Po
    Last edited by mrksin; 30th November 2010 at 01:31 PM. Reason: add some reference :P

  14. #34
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Quote Originally Posted by mrksin View Post
    ...i'm just going out there to see if i have the in-born talent.

    then followed by the luck to strike lottery. (to get hired)....
    Talent will only take you 5% of the way. The next 95% is pure hard work and experience. And you will take many years before you can become a cameraman or DOP.

    If you really have the passion for it, you need to start from the bottom up... start as an intern, bring coffee, carry gear, lay cables, move lightstands, setup tripods, set up dolly tracks, hold reflectors... slowly move up to best boy in sound, lights, then key grip... then assistant cameraman... etc etc etc....

    Long road buddy. And in the industry on set... no one talks nicely to you... you better be able to take the stress and the shouting and scolding. Be able to suck your pride in... and respond like the wind and work hard. And pray hard someone recognises and likes you enough to take you on as an apprentice.

    Wish you all the best.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 30th November 2010 at 09:19 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    I believe Singapore has very very little platforms for photographers and videoman to make it big..

  16. #36

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    mrksin. The link you gave us contains WRONG information. The golden triangle is NOT a spot where 3 countries meet. it covers a very large area, from Shan State in Burma till Vietnam, and includes parts of China. I spent much time in those areas. The host is ONLY using the "tourist" definitioned section. You want REAL action, go to the Poppy Farms controlled by the Shan Liberation Army in Shan State in Burma. But be warned, you might not walk out alove. The SLA is also known to constantly cross the border to rob Thai Villages; usually with Machine guns.

    You'll get used to "Black Areas" and "White Areas" terms once you're in the thick of things. I wish you luck if you're paddling this path....
    You've been "warned" hahahahaha

  17. #37

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    i found myself a vetran!

    haha!

    hey tell me, how do i get myself a homestay with the locals, say e.g. a rice field farmer?

    i don't speak their language, i'd only probably be able to use a language dictionary... i heard they speak cantonese, i know a bit of that...

    i just find how they manage to film working in the rice field, and staying with the locals, really interesting. do they welcome us though? (or our $$)

  18. #38

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    hey tell me, how do i get myself a homestay with the locals, say e.g. a rice field farmer?
    MC: Depends on which country you're in. Lao and Burma is "touchy". It is technically "illegal" to stay anywhere other than a designated Hotel for tourists. Of course, the Burmese would haul your ass in Jail if you violate this. The Lao Police, are very slightly more relaxed on this.


    i don't speak their language, i'd only probably be able to use a language dictionary... i heard they speak cantonese, i know a bit of that...
    MC: AM gonna give you THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT advise.
    LEARN TO SAY THE WORD "TOILET" in EVERY country you go to. It REALLY saves you much embarrassment and frustration when you need to go, and NO ONE understands what the hell you want. Bonus, if you can manage a few Thai words, the Lao would understand you. However, the Thai Language has 5 tones, and you could either be asking for a Horse or your Mother depending on how you say it.

    MC: Learning numbers is great for bargaining for anything. They WILL give you that little bit of an extra discount if you can manage numbers in their local language.


    i just find how they manage to film working in the rice field, and staying with the locals, really interesting.
    MC: They would welcome a Farang much quicker than you. However, they also call the Farang a "Walking ATM".


    do they welcome us though? (or our $$)
    MC: It all depends on how you carry yourself. If they smell that you have $$$, then that's the EXACT thing you will part with.
    If you wave your gear in their face, then they'll EAT YOU ALIVE (metaphorically).


    MC: I only spent no more than SG$500 per MONTH during my filming in Thailand. And I've spent more than 9 months in Thailand.
    The $500 includes food, transport, hotels, and so on. But, be warned, that this will be "rough travel".
    (Most idiots blow this amount in 5 days or less, and spoil the market for others)

    MC: Cambodians, on the other hand, are mostly *******s !! Especially those in Siem Reap. They quote, and deal in US$. The trick is this. Carry dual currencies, and pay for it in whichever currency they ask for. Otherwise, they'll screw you again in the conversion, despite the agreed price. The difference can be as much as 30% sometimes; which defeats the purpose of even bargaining in the first place.

    MC: Money Changers are another problem. They do a nice disappearing trick with your money, and you WILL ALWAYS end up short. This is especially TERRIBLE in Batam, Bintan, and Bali !! Carry a stapler, and staple the money in mini stacks of 5, so that you have Rp100,000 and DO NOT CHANGE if they only have Rp20,000 bills !!! The massive counting screws you up !! To give you an example, the rates can vary from Rp6,500 till Rp7,100 depending on where you change. The problem is, the higher the rates are, the higher the chance you will get robbed. Either way, you lose !! Change at a bank instead. Much safer, and they always have larger notes (ie Rp50,000 or Rp100,000)

    Hope this helps...

  19. #39

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    nice... this was definitely useful info.

    any other advice, such as crossing borders safely (lots of robbing there i heard).

    i've been reading lonelyplanet "on a shoestring" series. mostly tell me its not too expensive if i travel by bus, but don't tell me how to get one. is there a better book i can use?

  20. #40

    Default Re: complicated video-graphy question

    Dear mrskin,


    any other advice, such as crossing borders safely (lots of robbing there i heard).
    MC: Border-crossings are generally alright, if you use the regular and legit channels. Please don't be a hero and try to cross illegally.
    You have no reason to do so otherwise!!

    Unless you are planning on filming the Thai-Burmese border. Then the legit crossings are a complete waste of time, coz nothing to see or film there.
    I've done those, and needed the help of the Rebel Military. However, I MUST WARN YOU about Landmines !!

    Lao, Vietnam, and China borders are a breeze. No issues at all. The robberies do happen between Lao and Vietnam, However, those robbing you are the Bus drivers themselves, who will demand US$20 for you to stay on the bus till the border. They usually stop somewhere in the middle of Timbuktoo, and rob you then. You have NO CHANCE of escape !! (Unless you had a local girlfriend who can help wiggle your way out)


    i've been reading lonelyplanet "on a shoestring" series. mostly tell me its not too expensive if i travel by bus, but don't tell me how to get one. is there a better book i can use?
    MC: Thai buses are the MOST reliable. The rest are rather shitty !!

    MC: The shoestring book, is an all-in-one book. Horribly useless for more details. I'd recommend you get each individual country separately. Mail the books home when you're done. BTW ONLY Thai Postal is reliable. The rest, will steal your stamps money, and sell the contents of your package !! NO JOKE !!

    Been there, done that....

    Hope this helps
    Cheers

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