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Thread: Past Present Future

  1. #1

    Default Past Present Future

    1. in what area is critique to be sought? Everything
    2. what one hopes to achieve with the piece of work? Technical and personal challenge, also, final project
    3. under what circumstance is the picture taken? (physical conditions/emotions) Hot, frustrated, stressed for due date. Thrice I went on-site and it was badlighting or raining. Computer died, making things really stressed for time. Managed to shoot this last sunday.
    4. what the critique seeker personally thinks of the picture I'm not happy that my wireless trigger died at mid-bridge where it was rather crucial, so i think the night shots are not as sharp as it should be.

    Past Present Future:


    Prior to this I was trying out panoramic stitching for the first time on the 4th week of my assignment (see sig link)~ mid sept. Really clueless, but the research process taught me (on hindsight) that a normal panorama is a LOT EASIER than this, mainly because ghosting is easily removed by layer masking but this one cannot.

    Things I would like to improve on:
    1)Trying out a motorized head
    2)Borrow someone's pano-head?
    3)Another lens for optimal sharpness
    3)On-going edits for bad patches.

    As to the above, I would like to thank DD123 and Draken for their comments on my assignment thread. Thanks a bunch for helping!

    ps. the photo is printed and up for exhibit at the NIE photographic room (80"x30"), feel free to drop by and check out my friends' work too. A group of friends did a 3D photo mozaic of Michael Jackson which I thought was awesome!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    I am sorry to hear about the stress and frustration that you have undergone in taking this set of pictures, but I really can't associate with those pains/efforts in the pic. To me, it is not a technically challenging piece of art, although the stitching was tastefully done. I can't relate te pic to the title too.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    interesting concept of day to night pano.
    You got foreground, leading elements, human element, blue light, daylight.... the middle portion looks a little underexposed.
    Coolthought - 冷静思考 - クールだ http://xaa.xanga.com/0aba0666d143253.../t35917343.gif

  4. #4

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    It's a very interesting concept! Nice paranoma.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Nice! I like the way the day to night is reflected. Nice stitching as well!
    Nikon D90 | AF-S 18-105mm | AF 50mm f/1.8D | Tokina 12-24mm f4 | Sigma 30mm f1.4

  6. #6

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    I don't understand the concept of "past present future" here. You seem to be trying to deal with the concept of time, but except for the lighting conditions (ie. night/day), the skyline shows nothing about past or future.

    On the technical side, you might want to standardise your shutter speed, since this is a water scene. It's quite clear that the night shots used a longer shutter speed than the shots on the right- the choppiness/smoothness of the water is inconsistent.

    Personally, the composition is also very left-heavy, but yet the leading line of sorts on the right leads the viewer's eyes out of the photo- or at least, towards the esplanade, with the dark skyline on the left competing for attention. Maybe you could have ditched the esplanade and did a looser pano of the skyline at varying times. I think that would have been less messy while maintaining the interesting take on the scene.
    Olympian

  7. #7

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Lekech View Post
    I am sorry to hear about the stress and frustration that you have undergone in taking this set of pictures, but I really can't associate with those pains/efforts in the pic. To me, it is not a technically challenging piece of art, although the stitching was tastefully done. I can't relate te pic to the title too.
    Haha, thanks for being emphatic

    My original intention was to shoot a 12 hour period. Since I have yet to attempt such shot before I would have to experiment, but due to time limitation I could only try this once For me the challenge came in choosing the shutter/aperture/iso in a changing light condition, and shooting each frames (like, shld i shoot x by x min, or y min etc etc), and i'm still not too pleased with the stitching...LOL

    The title was something thought at a whim

    Quote Originally Posted by coolthought View Post
    interesting concept of day to night pano.
    You got foreground, leading elements, human element, blue light, daylight.... the middle portion looks a little underexposed.
    Thanks

    Yes indeed it is, if i recall correctly the lighting conditions was like that, due to the angle of the sun. I did bracket for that but I decided to leave it be. if i have time i'll try another stitch!

    Quote Originally Posted by derrickder View Post
    It's a very interesting concept! Nice paranoma.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smiles88 View Post
    Nice! I like the way the day to night is reflected. Nice stitching as well!
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by candycaine View Post
    I don't understand the concept of "past present future" here. You seem to be trying to deal with the concept of time, but except for the lighting conditions (ie. night/day), the skyline shows nothing about past or future.

    On the technical side, you might want to standardise your shutter speed, since this is a water scene. It's quite clear that the night shots used a longer shutter speed than the shots on the right- the choppiness/smoothness of the water is inconsistent.

    Personally, the composition is also very left-heavy, but yet the leading line of sorts on the right leads the viewer's eyes out of the photo- or at least, towards the esplanade, with the dark skyline on the left competing for attention. Maybe you could have ditched the esplanade and did a looser pano of the skyline at varying times. I think that would have been less messy while maintaining the interesting take on the scene.
    I left the couple there as an anchor, and it ("relationship") occurred to me, of how transient it is , (or could be), that's why I was thinking of past present future...5min idea LOL. I was thinking maybe I should crop the bottom a little more, cutting into the reflections, but at least it's not so distracting...any ideas?

    Hmm, I'm not sure about keeping a constant shutter speed, cause of many reasons, and for pano typically we keep a constant aperture..in a varying exposure shot that would leave with the ISO to play around, abit tough. I'll keep that in mind and experiment tho!

    Thanks for the comment on the composition. Personally I feel that without that "magic" couple there including the esplanade is quite uninteresting as well. Would like to try what you suggested with a tighter focal length, maybe 35 or 50 and do a 2 or 3 row pano! Think a pano-head would come in handy there
    Last edited by Jonathan Ang; 2nd December 2010 at 03:16 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    i think its a nice job done stitching was spot on,dun see much ghosting, and technically everything was pretty perfect. but perhaps the name cld be changed to 'day to night' or smth lol. but seriously, this is nice, works for me

  9. #9

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ang View Post
    I left the couple there as an anchor, and it ("relationship") occurred to me, of how transient it is , (or could be), that's why I was thinking of past present future...5min idea LOL. I was thinking maybe I should crop the bottom a little more, cutting into the reflections, but at least it's not so distracting...any ideas?
    As an "anchor" of sorts, I don't think the position of the couple in the photo helped- and as a "transient relationship" motif, I don't think the physical position of the couple helped either. I hope you get what I mean- the couple are neither here nor there in their actions, and the inclusion of the couple in the photo causes that to be neither here nor there also.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ang View Post
    Hmm, I'm not sure about keeping a constant shutter speed, cause of many reasons, and for pano typically we keep a constant aperture..in a varying exposure shot that would leave with the ISO to play around, abit tough. I'll keep that in mind and experiment tho!
    Consider more carefully- please correct me if I'm wrong, a constant aperture is used to maintain the same DOF throughout the photos. Usually, a pano is taken frame by frame one after the other. With a constant f number, the shutter speed will be roughly the same. The underlying principle is to keep your exposure constant/relatively constant so that the pano looks seamless in terms of exposure.

    Here, the shutter speed is very drastically different because you're shooting at night and in the day. While your stiched frames are properly exposed, I have a minor issue with the inconsistency in the water. You can choose to ignore this or you can make the photo better on the technical side. I think, maybe it's a minor issue and it's also tricky to solve- but I would try to put in that extra effort because think it makes the photo better.

    You can still keep your f number and ISO constant no problem- but there are other ways to maintain a constant exposure no? The first thing that popped to my mind was filters. That part, I agree is tricky. But if you calculate properly, you can vary the number of nd stops used to good effect. That needs some trial and error though.

    Hope this helps,
    AC
    Olympian

  10. #10

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Quote Originally Posted by candycaine View Post
    As an "anchor" of sorts, I don't think the position of the couple in the photo helped- and as a "transient relationship" motif, I don't think the physical position of the couple helped either. I hope you get what I mean- the couple are neither here nor there in their actions, and the inclusion of the couple in the photo causes that to be neither here nor there also.



    Consider more carefully- please correct me if I'm wrong, a constant aperture is used to maintain the same DOF throughout the photos. Usually, a pano is taken frame by frame one after the other. With a constant f number, the shutter speed will be roughly the same. The underlying principle is to keep your exposure constant/relatively constant so that the pano looks seamless in terms of exposure.

    Here, the shutter speed is very drastically different because you're shooting at night and in the day. While your stiched frames are properly exposed, I have a minor issue with the inconsistency in the water. You can choose to ignore this or you can make the photo better on the technical side. I think, maybe it's a minor issue and it's also tricky to solve- but I would try to put in that extra effort because think it makes the photo better.

    You can still keep your f number and ISO constant no problem- but there are other ways to maintain a constant exposure no? The first thing that popped to my mind was filters. That part, I agree is tricky. But if you calculate properly, you can vary the number of nd stops used to good effect. That needs some trial and error though.

    Hope this helps,
    AC
    Ahhh no doubt that makes some sense! Might have to do some back calculations. Okay just did:

    Assuming the final frame is 8 sec f/8 100 iso, and first frame 1/250 frame f/8 iso 100, that is 11 stop. Assuming 8 seconds can be compromised with iso 200. It'll fit just right! Will be rather tricky for other frames though, as the changes are 1/3-4/3 exposures different.. but I think it's not impossible.. Another idea to consider if one has a vari-ND or 2

  11. #11
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Past Present Future

    nice effort on stitching! that's one area i haven done myself.

  12. #12
    Senior Member ovaltinemilo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Innovative concept.

    However, I am still rather disturbed by the uneven exposure and patches at the stitching border...
    ...:::..::.Nikon.::.:::..
    RGB Metering & Focusing.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Nice. I love it! Yes i love the concept.
    Very nicely done with the couple at the right.

    Kinda gives me an impression they are singapore's future (sort of).

  14. #14

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ang View Post
    Ahhh no doubt that makes some sense! Might have to do some back calculations. Okay just did:

    Assuming the final frame is 8 sec f/8 100 iso, and first frame 1/250 frame f/8 iso 100, that is 11 stop. Assuming 8 seconds can be compromised with iso 200. It'll fit just right! Will be rather tricky for other frames though, as the changes are 1/3-4/3 exposures different.. but I think it's not impossible.. Another idea to consider if one has a vari-ND or 2
    You might want to look at Vari-NDs as a relatively cheap and easier option. Some people swear by it and some people swear it is problematic. I think there's a thread or 2 in this forum.

    If you are reshooting this you may also want to allocate equal portions of the photo to the 4 (I think you shot at 4 different times, correct me if I'm wrong) timings this photo was taken at, so it looks more even as well.
    Olympian

  15. #15

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Quote Originally Posted by ovaltinemilo View Post
    Innovative concept.

    However, I am still rather disturbed by the uneven exposure and patches at the stitching border...
    Me too . I'm okay with the darker exposure in the middle tho as I'm exposing for e sky , which is more impt, alternatively next time around I could try a hdr-pano which I did for another shot.. I think it's against the rules to post more then one photo here..

    [edit]: oops sorry I thought u were coolthought referring to the middle portion. Oops.


    And yes the bad patches! At the moment exams next week, I'll properly try to remask this in January. It's a compromise between ghosting actually. Not sure but I think not using a pano-head results in an apparent movement cause the lens not at nodal(very evident when zoomed in).. Typically panos with constant exposure u can simply mask away the offending area, but when I try to do it here, the darker/lighter exposure of the next frame shows up.. Easier to do then know then explain here lol

    Quote Originally Posted by candycaine View Post
    You might want to look at Vari-NDs as a relatively cheap and easier option. Some people swear by it and some people swear it is problematic. I think there's a thread or 2 in this forum.

    If you are reshooting this you may also want to allocate equal portions of the photo to the 4 (I think you shot at 4 different times, correct me if I'm wrong) timings this photo was taken at, so it looks more even as well.
    Yea but I've heard the vari-NDs have issues at maximum strength like 8? Still think it's really tricky tho haha

    Actually no, they are not 4 different times. They are from 15 frames over a period. If possible I want to try at least two more ways of doing this, one being a
    Motorized head, but don't know of anyone in sg who uses it lol.

    Btw I was considering your suggestions on the composition about the couple. My original idea was of either chopping this photo into equal portions (or without chopping) and curve the whole photo such that the viewer stands in a space and looks from right to left, left to right. Ideally it should be at least 4m in length but I only printed 2m, but the idea is there. Not sure if u can visualize this and comment based on that?
    Last edited by Jonathan Ang; 4th December 2010 at 07:36 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Quote Originally Posted by ovaltinemilo View Post
    Innovative concept.

    However, I am still rather disturbed by the uneven exposure and patches at the stitching border...
    On full view on a 25" monitor I had difficulty spotting the bad patches (@ 10% size$, same for large print. But seems like zooming out makes it more obvious.. Another learning point, thanks!

    But actually now that u mention it I get more disturbed by it too haha, have a sudden urge to rework on it, but zzz must be disciplined. Good thing my computer this down working on the spare is a pain, takes 5-10 mins to load and save.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ang View Post
    Yea but I've heard the vari-NDs have issues at maximum strength like 8? Still think it's really tricky tho haha

    Actually no, they are not 4 different times. They are from 15 frames over a period. If possible I want to try at least two more ways of doing this, one being a
    Motorized head, but don't know of anyone in sg who uses it lol.

    Btw I was considering your suggestions on the composition about the couple. My original idea was of either chopping this photo into equal portions (or without chopping) and curve the whole photo such that the viewer stands in a space and looks from right to left, left to right. Ideally it should be at least 4m in length but I only printed 2m, but the idea is there. Not sure if u can visualize this and comment based on that?

    Definitely keeping the exposure constant is tricky. But be versatile. I think my best bet would be to vary the number of ND stops and keep all else constant. Bear in mind that you can use 2 filters even (vignetting doesn't seem to be a big issue to me when I stack a CPL+ND8).

    You can also vary your ISO, no problem, unless the inconsistency in dynamic range/noise is too great.

    I think, for this scene, you can give or take with regards to the f number as well. I think the difference in DOF and sharpness for say 1/3 or maybe even 1 f-stop would not be significant.

    I think the underlying idea is to find some way to keep your shutter speed as well as overall exposure constant. However, if the shutter speed for some frames are 8s and some 10s, for example, the water quality can possibly be very similar. (Depends on many factors like wind/boat traffic even). Don't need to be too rigid.

    Hmm. Not sure if I'm visualising it correctly, especially the "right to left, left to right" part. If you could make a quick diagram that would be great. The panorama is supposed to form a.. semi circle?

    I'm not too sure how that enhances the photo though, except that perhaps it makes the transition between time periods in the photo more fluid.
    Olympian

  18. #18
    Senior Member Override2Zion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Past Present Future

    Personally I like this photo, the concept is good. Kudos for the effort in putting this panorama together, shooting throughout the day till night would not have been easy. I've always wanted to do a time lapsed panorama but didn't have the time.
    Nikon D200/D700/D800 User :)
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