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Thread: definition of full frame

  1. #21
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Sorry bro... it just sounds like a marketing spin to me,.

    Just like how in Nikon DX lenses are designed to project the full image on the DX sensor... then DX sensor is also "full frame" by that standard...
    I guess the commonly-accepted term is that full-frame = 35mm size

    but what do the MF ppl have to say about that?
    Exploring! :)

  2. #22
    Senior Member ZerocoolAstra's Avatar
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    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by CamInit View Post
    Just remembered... Wikipedia definition count or not?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-frame_digital_SLR
    wikipedia content also contributed by members of the public, like us
    Exploring! :)

  3. #23
    Member dannyfoxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Sorry bro... it just sounds like a marketing spin to me,.

    Just like how in Nikon DX lenses are designed to project the full image on the DX sensor... then DX sensor is also "full frame" by that standard...
    Yes and agree.. DX lenses also digital full frame.. it is not marketing... it is just technology advancement.
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    ... I'm not a photographer yet.....

  4. #24

    Wink Re: definition of full frame

    so the full frame is relative then .

  5. #25

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Hi, There is a standard definition according to internal standard as defined in the dictionary or by some standard body. Over time, we intend to use it loosely and give different meanings to it in accordance with different interpretations in different contexts so that it now has different meanings allotted to it. Today, it has more than one meaning and interpretation in terms of size, performance and comparison : FF vs APS-C, etc. as to which is better. Just for discussion only.

  6. #26

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    my 2 cents is that it reproduces FF quality..but it is not FF..

    then again..our world is governed by physics..

    unless some Einstein can change the basic rules..

    FF will always be FF..and 2x crop will be 2x crop..

    Quality is subjective..who will say their product is inferior?

    esp coming from a company that don't have FF in their range.

    so i feel, imho, it is a twist and a spin..

    just like C.Ronaldo to win a penalty.

  7. #27

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    I always wonder why m43 lenses say 14-42mm.

    If m43 regard their sensors as "full frame", why don't they label their lenses properly to 28-84mm?

    I also think FF is nonsense now. Makes no difference what the size of the sensor is with respect to image resolution and quality. Modern APS-C sensors can match the early FF sensors in terms of dynamic range, noise etc. Companies should call their sensors APS-C size and label the lenses with the correct field of view. No point in sticking with old film standards in the digital world.
    Last edited by Shahmatt; 25th November 2010 at 11:56 AM.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  8. #28

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Full frame standard 35mm film cameras have a frame size of 24x36mm. Full frame 4x5” cameras have a frame size of 4x5 inches. If you’re not getting “full frame” then either the shutter is not opening all the way or the recording media was not properly inserted. There is no such thing as a “non-full-frame” digital camera. Some web forum users insist that only a 35mm film camera is full frame. If that is true does it follow that medium format is then “big frame” while 4x5 is “super frame” and 8x10 “super-deluxe-biggie-humongous”?
    From here.

    Just wondering why you even bother if your camera is called full-frame or not ...

  9. #29
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    I always wonder why m43 lenses say 14-42mm.

    If m43 regard their sensors as "full frame", why don't they label their lenses properly to 28-84mm?

    I also think FF is nonsense now. Makes no difference what the size of the sensor is with respect to image resolution and quality. Modern APS-C sensors can match the early FF sensors in terms of dynamic range, noise etc. Companies should call their sensors APS-C size and label the lenses with the correct field of view. No point in sticking with old film standards in the digital world.
    14-42mm is the proper way and the only way to label. Because focal length label is a scientific absolute value scale. It quantifies the actual distance between the lens element and where the light converge to a point. It does not relate a FOV (field of view).

    There are still things a smaller sensor cannot match a larger sensor. Like the shallower DoF a larger sensor gives you. and with any technological advancement, that same advance can be applied to both smaller and to larger sensors. And the larger sensor will still come out tops.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 25th November 2010 at 12:02 PM.

  10. #30

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by wwooaahh View Post
    From here.

    Just wondering why you even bother if your camera is called full-frame or not ...
    matter of principle mah..

    cannot call a goat a sheep wat..one is mutton chop, the other a lamb.

    Though they smell the same. but cost is different wor..

  11. #31

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    I always wonder why m43 lenses say 14-42mm.

    If m43 regard their sensors as "full frame", why don't they label their lenses properly to 28-84mm?

    I also think FF is nonsense now. Makes no difference what the size of the sensor is with respect to image resolution and quality. Modern APS-C sensors can match the early FF sensors in terms of dynamic range, noise etc. Companies should call their sensors APS-C size and label the lenses with the correct field of view. No point in sticking with old film standards in the digital world.
    m43 lenses is labeled 14-42mm because its focal length is 14mm to 42mm (physical property of the lens).

  12. #32
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    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Dead horse ahead alert...

    Actually it all boils down to what is one's definition of "full frame".

    If your definition is "full frame = 35mm film size" then yes, 4/3 and APS-C are all "cropped" sensors and medium/large format are "multiplied/humongous" sensors.
    If your definition is "full frame = capture full image circle projected by lens" then 4/3, medium, large format etc. are all "full frame". And APS-C bodies using lenses designed for APS-C is also "full frame" (e.g. DX bodies with DX lenses). You only get "cropped" if you are using smaller sensor which can only capture a crop of the image circle projected by the lens (e.g. DX body with FX lens).

    The argument about multiplication vs crop factor also depends on one's personal definition. If your sensor captured the full image circle projected by the lens, where's the crop? Hence Olympus users prefer the use of "multiplication factor" when comparing FOV to the more common 35mm size. Otherwise it'll be like saying medium is a 0.5x "crop" factor when there is no "cropping" involved. So to us, APS-C sensor + APS-C lenses -> multiplication factor. APS-C sensor + lenses designed for 35mm film size -> crop factor.

    Peace out guys...
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  13. #33

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Why medium format is not a full frame ? even from the size it's more bigger .

  14. #34
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by arctos View Post
    Dead horse ahead alert...

    Actually it all boils down to what is one's definition of "full frame".

    If your definition is "full frame = 35mm film size" then yes, 4/3 and APS-C are all "cropped" sensors and medium/large format are "multiplied/humongous" sensors.
    If your definition is "full frame = capture full image circle projected by lens" then 4/3, medium, large format etc. are all "full frame". And APS-C bodies using lenses designed for APS-C is also "full frame" (e.g. DX bodies with DX lenses). You only get "cropped" if you are using smaller sensor which can only capture a crop of the image circle projected by the lens (e.g. DX body with FX lens).

    The argument about multiplication vs crop factor also depends on one's personal definition. If your sensor captured the full image circle projected by the lens, where's the crop? Hence Olympus users prefer the use of "multiplication factor" when comparing FOV to the more common 35mm size. Otherwise it'll be like saying medium is a 0.5x "crop" factor when there is no "cropping" involved. So to us, APS-C sensor + APS-C lenses -> multiplication factor. APS-C sensor + lenses designed for 35mm film size -> crop factor.

    Peace out guys...


    That is why I think marketing loves to use this... make your product sound the best, and yet, by definition, cannot be blamed for false advertising, because there is no real fixed definition.

  15. #35
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by biskandar View Post
    Why medium format is not a full frame ? even from the size it's more bigger .
    Then what about large format?

  16. #36

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Then what about large format?
    ... medium format is then “big frame” while 4x5 is “super frame” and 8x10 “super-deluxe-biggie-humongous” frame ...
    Just for fun only,

  17. #37
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    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Google 135 standard where it all began.

    All lenses' focal lengths are measured according to this standard, regardless of whether it's designed for APS-C, 135, MF or 4/3. The main difference is their FOV.
    Home is where the heart is.

  18. #38

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    I also think FF is nonsense now. Makes no difference what the size of the sensor is with respect to image resolution and quality. Modern APS-C sensors can match the early FF sensors in terms of dynamic range, noise etc.
    I disagree. If they can improve DR and noise in crop, they also did the same to FF. Just because there are advancements in crop sensors doesn't mean FF sensors stay the same all through the years. Size matters.

  19. #39

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    It's very simple, folks.

    FF is for Canon and FX is for Nikon.

    Anything else, we can just nod our heads, "ya .. olympus full-frame, sony full-frame, samsung full-frame etc"

  20. #40

    Default Re: definition of full frame

    The 4/3 and m4/3 just wanna make themselves feel better by saying they have full frame dslrs, when in actual fact they have the smallest sensors compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony and Pentax...

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