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Thread: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

  1. #161

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by expro View Post
    Who the hell do you are? You ask question I need to answer?
    Quote Originally Posted by expro View Post
    If you are too lazy to read pass posts, you deserve to be Puzzle!
    expro,

    Just look at your own bloody answer, you are one crude poster who cannot even defend your own point of view or probably don't even know what yourself are talking about. I just ask a simple question about how you can compare a product sale business (clothing business in you case) vs more towards services oriented business (photography). The business model is already different, you might have a valid point if you can clarify.

    In a discussion forum, there are bound to be Q&A, if you are not willing to part take then better don't waste bandwidth.
    Last edited by ilikeit; 24th November 2010 at 08:57 PM.

  2. #162

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Some pros here said they Wanda " share insights" into the trade but then charges $250 an hour by conducting a course on how to " make your business work". Sharing? I t thought sharing is free and out of goodwill? do you really care what the cheap photographers charge? are you really worried about them? Or yourself. It is the hypocrisy that uss killing the industry.. Not the cheap photographers.

  3. #163

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Some pros here said they Wanda " share insights" into the trade but then charges $250 an hour by conducting a course on how to " make your business work". Sharing? I t thought sharing is free and out of goodwill? do you really care what the cheap photographers charge? are you really worried about them? Or yourself. It is the hypocrisy that uss killing the industry.. Not the cheap photographers.
    Hi Lancey,

    Hahaha.... I knew that will come from you.

    Anyway, u can read my post here in CS and it is free. I guess your glass is too full. Post on CS is sharing, course unfortunately are expected to teach.

    I am never worried about other photographer how much they charge or what they do, why should I? but what I am interested is to show people who are interested to make a living out of photography and enjoy the trade.


    But funny... I wonder what have you done to contribute to the world of photography other than questioning my and other's intention.


    I wasn't surprised, I was "named" not professional 3 years ago because I don't shoot studio for children photography by some fellow Photographers... and guess what, they are still there looking for jobs while me enjoying my work. Suddenly after 2 years later outdoor photography for children seems to be so popular. Why don't people see that before me?

    I told many I love skeptics...

    So before you make a fool of yourself, ask what you have done to the photography community. I have yet to see any...


    Regards,

    Hart
    Last edited by Agetan; 25th November 2010 at 12:44 AM.

  4. #164

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    nothing. But at least I don't charge people in the name of sharing. Can you? if no one pays, would you conduct your " course" for free? With note and everything? Nothing wrong with doing business this way though.. But confuse business with sharing. Look up the word while you are at it.

  5. #165

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    and you have done what to the photo community may i ask? oh, by conducting a few hundred bucks an hr course on "how to make it work"?. Thats not even funny.

    "post on CS is sharing"? yea, so is everyone who posted here..sharing...Your point?

    "course unfortunately is to teach"? yea, so all teachers who stop getting paid will stop teaching? Teach? Of course a course is to teach, but why charge a fee if u r in for the "sharing"? Aren't u a believer of sharing with the photo community? No money no honey?

    Don't fall further man...you don't know what sharing means. At least if im not sharing, Im not saying I am.

    "I am never worried about other photographer how much they charge or what they do, why should I? but what I am interested is to show people who are interested to make a living out of photography and enjoy the trade. "

    This one takes the cake.. If u r not interested what they charge and what they do, why should u be interested in showing them ANYTHING(with a fee)?

  6. #166

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    oh wait...the fee....that's why ~

  7. #167

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry


  8. #168

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry


  9. #169
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Let the market forces decide.

    a. Charge expensive with good pictures and all well ends well.

    b. Charge expensive with cheezy pictures and expect to be bad mouthed.

    c. Charge cheap with good pictures and all things goes well.

    d. Charge cheap with cheezy pictures and let CS decide the fate!

    I think the technology has come down so cheap for photographic equipments that almost everyone has it. The real problem comes in from the freelancers in which they dont need the "real" income from photography and can afford to charge cheap. Most dont even spend the effort to be proficient in their craft. But can you really blamed them since the most consumers or so-called-photographers dont even know what is a good picture or the bad ones?

    btw. i am just an enthusiastic GWC and not photographer.

  10. #170

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    In Singapore people do what they do best to gain attention and say that their product is good, by slandering their opponents. I do not blame anyone but the government and our education.

    When we are young when we do something wrong and the teacher tells us that, the first thing we say is never 'sorry' but 'xxx also do this what'. When election polls come, some xxx pple will say 'vote for xxx and you will not get hdb upgrade'. When you go to IT show you will find salesman say 'xxx brand is no good lah, parts all made in china etc' and never 'why my brand is better'. It is our society that build us and I do not need to go thru all 9 pages of this thread to find out.

    Everyone who started as an entrepreneur needs to start finding business as a start. This is the most difficult and I know that because I have come through this route although not in the photo industry. When you have zero customers and zero portfolio, the first thing many people will do is to slash price. Like it or not, when a price war starts, no matter product is good or not, some people will buy. But we are not talking about product quality here.

    I encourage many youngsters to start their own business even when you are very young and have no experience. Why? Some people will ask. Why not gain some experience while working for people and then start when you are more mature. Yes that can be a way but the advantage of starting young is that you can afford to make mistakes and you do not have financial commitment. You have many years ahead of you so why worry about the first 3 years?

    For people who have established their businesses, I congratulate you on your success. But turn around and look back. Do you remember which client gave you the very first chance when you have zero portfolio and experience. Do you remember the client who said 'it is ok' when you made a mistake because your lack of experience and skills. We all gain experience and skills as we grow older and we become better at our work. But do not scuff or look down on people who are starting up their business. They are like you when you started out. Do not be the old fart chinese master who thinks an apprentice must sweep the floor for 10 years before learning the trade. Whatever skills we have we want to pass them on, sometimes not to our kids but the next most talented in line. When I grow old and cannot continue anymore, my company still can carry on. I will pass it to the most talented staff I have in the company.

    Remember we all want to be successful but do not take that success with you into the grave. Leave it in the world for everyone to enjoy and for it to flourish further. Make it the next IBM or HP whom have lived past their founders. That in my humble opinion is doing something, contributing to the industry or society.

  11. #171

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by nex100 View Post
    In Singapore people do what they do best to gain attention and say that their product is good, by slandering their opponents. I do not blame anyone but the government and our education.

    When we are young when we do something wrong and the teacher tells us that, the first thing we say is never 'sorry' but 'xxx also do this what'. When election polls come, some xxx pple will say 'vote for xxx and you will not get hdb upgrade'. When you go to IT show you will find salesman say 'xxx brand is no good lah, parts all made in china etc' and never 'why my brand is better'. It is our society that build us and I do not need to go thru all 9 pages of this thread to find out.



    well said

  12. #172
    Member dannyfoxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    after so many days.. the topic still go on and on, cut the story short, just charge what you want if you can find the "carrot head" willing seller, willing buyer.. just make sure is legal.
    flickr
    ... I'm not a photographer yet.....

  13. #173
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyfoxy View Post
    find the "carrot head" willing seller, willing buyer.. just make sure is legal.
    It's reminded me of some "famous" shops in SLS & Lucky Plaza "chopping" their customer with their outrageous price, only to have the customer finding out later that it cost only a faction of the price elsewhere..

  14. #174

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyfoxy View Post
    just charge what you want if you can find the "carrot head" willing seller, willing buyer.. just make sure is legal.
    Just a receipe for short term business and give the rest of ethical business a bad name.

    Cheap photographer don't kill the market. Unethical Photographers do....


    Regards,

    Hart

  15. #175

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post

    I remember a quote from Gerry from Xsight, if the photographer itself is the business, it is not a business at all.

    Hart
    Do you mean Jerry Ghionis? I thought he sold Xsight to Ryan Schembri?

    Sorry for the OT...

  16. #176

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Just a receipe for short term business and give the rest of ethical business a bad name.

    Cheap photographer don't kill the market. Unethical Photographers do....


    Regards,

    Hart
    yup.. agree..

    like what you said..

    anyways.. the reason why we pay top dollar for professional classes/courses is because they're worth SOMETHING. we learn more, sometimes get certified. we PAY for something.

    imagine if things are too cheap or rather FREE (sharing tips and tricks). where's the perceived value behind it? where's the security that the person you hired is worth the wages?

    imagine, you go for a job interview and the interviewer asks you "what's your knowledge in the field of marketing" and your reply is "oh i heard things from my buds, a few tips and tricks from people i've met here and there blah blah.." what's the impression.

    there are things that can be shared online free. but other things it's better to PAY for it. too much sharing can just hurt in the end as well.

  17. #177

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    Do you mean Jerry Ghionis? I thought he sold Xsight to Ryan Schembri?

    Sorry for the OT...
    He might, I don't follow too much on their business.

    Yes, I should mean Jerry... Hahaha..

  18. #178
    Senior Member Anson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    imagine, you go for a job interview and the interviewer asks you "what's your knowledge in the field of marketing" and your reply is "oh i heard things from my buds, a few tips and tricks from people i've met here and there blah blah.." what's the impression.

    there are things that can be shared online free. but other things it's better to PAY for it. too much sharing can just hurt in the end as well.
    OT

    First and foremost, I am not referring to anyone in particular. But how often is a photographer get hired for an assignment/job based on his/her qualification?

    Based on my experience, most are hired based on word-of-mouth, portfolio, etc. Is having a certificate/diploma/degree in photography really needed to be successful in this business?

    Personally at least for me, I don't think so... alot of successful working photographers I knew did obtain any photography qualification either. To me your works speak for itself..

    Anyone working pros disagree?
    Last edited by Anson; 26th November 2010 at 03:38 PM.

  19. #179

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Well, I'm just a new member, but it's very interesting to see some well-thought out answers (albeit some brainless ones) in this thread. On the topic of charging, I think it's to conduct a course on how to do business and charge for it. Very few business has such entry/introductory courses and I think even having someone to tell you the ropes of the trade is invaluable. To provide this out of goodwill is a bit hard, because not everyone is grateful/appreciative, so in my opinion it's better to charge people for the information, get those emotions out of the way.

    Of course if one feels ripped off by such a course one can feel free to complain and warn of others, just like what we do on camera shops. However I think it's a bit of a stretch to expect such privilleged information to be given as free. If people are willing to share a nugget of information, it's already a steal.

  20. #180

    Default Re: Cheap photographers only kill themselves, not the industry

    Quote Originally Posted by kei1309 View Post
    imagine, you go for a job interview and the interviewer asks you "what's your knowledge in the field of marketing" and your reply is "oh i heard things from my buds, a few tips and tricks from people i've met here and there blah blah.." what's the impression.

    .
    as compared to "oh i got some tips from this guy online who charges me a few hundred an hour on "how to make it big in marketting"..he even gave me notes! and a printed cert!"

    yes, big difference i think.

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