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Thread: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

  1. #101
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    My personal view is FT should primary fill the "gaps" in the industry... if the industry needs 100 engineers of a particular field... and locally we only have 50, then we should bring in 50 FT in fill the gaps.. or maybe sligtly more, to give some competitiveness...

    i can understand there is no way you can have a system to 100% fullfill this... but seems the industry is getting overflow with FT or the control is just no possible ? Is all the FT coming to fill the gaps or replace us ?
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  2. #102

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore...porean--Survey

    People, all this unhappiness is a myth. All is well and good in sg!

  3. #103

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by macaroni View Post
    On the subject of foreign talent, putting jobs aside for now. U feel proud to see the "Singapore" football team take to the field? Or the table tennis team win medals? I don't.

    at least these sportman still gt talents. NTUC Fairprice/watson etc, foreign supervisors/ floor managers has better talents than locals? they are already taking over mid level posts or even supervisory or even managerial posts from locals.

  4. #104

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    "Two National Education (NE) surveys on students - conducted in 2008 and this year - showed that more than 95 per cent were proud to be Singaporeans, the minister said yesterday. "

    "Similar surveys on National Servicemen have also consistently shown that a majority feel they belong here and would defend Singapore should it come under threat. More than 90 per cent felt Singapore is where they belong."

    Do take note the survey is done on STUDENTS and NS men! That says alot about the credibility of the findings.
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  5. #105

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    They are here to ensure the economy booms at all cost, even at our cost. So that some can carry on to take home big fat pay checks and not retire.....

  6. #106

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by happyfrog View Post
    I can understand why FTs are usually paid more even on the same position as companies will have to foot 15% more for CPF (+ more days off for reservist, etc), but close to 60-70% more? That, I do not understand.
    That you have to ask their HR dept.
    Companies with the money can pay whatever they want to whomever they wish to, in order to attract or fill vacancies.

  7. #107

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Maybe we should ask ourselve.

    If I were the boss, what would I do? Engage a local or a FT....???

    It is a real and cruel world!

    My boss used to tell me, you fight for yourself and nobody will help you!

    I accepted it so what should I do? Move forward and how?

    ..... this has been my greatest method... add service to your job... anticipate and do before the boss ask yiou to do so, be proactive........ etc

    I once lost a job and I had 3 mouths to feed ... blame the government, never why should I. I went back to start as an apprentice with money just enough to feed all. I survive and now I am confortable so do my family.
    Good for you!
    Indeed, the real world is survival of the fittest. It's a free market out there and employers have the ultimate say to hire whoever or whatever that meet they criteria. It all comes down to economics. My brother who's in the US was out of job for almost a year (had 2 mouths to feed), was fortunate to find another one.

  8. #108
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by happyfrog View Post
    I dont understand that table tennis thing. But if this is not done, SG will never shine in sports.
    what sports? i thought the only sports we asian are good are like math games?

  9. #109

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchRival View Post
    http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore...porean--Survey

    People, all this unhappiness is a myth. All is well and good in sg!
    Local media is a fallacy, its like gold 95, only can broadcast the good things, remember:

    We are like a little deaf frog, deaf to all criticisms, Minister Lim Swee Say, March 2010
    Last edited by Belle&Sebastain; 3rd November 2010 at 01:30 PM.

  10. #110

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by happyfrog View Post
    I dont understand that table tennis thing. But if this is not done, SG will never shine in sports.
    Not true, our YOG soccer team played pretty well. But I don't see many of them going to join the national team any time soon. Sports are just underappreciated in Singapore, they just feel they should do something more "meaningful" than playing soccer.
    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    Good for you!
    Indeed, the real world is survival of the fittest. It's a free market out there and employers have the ultimate say to hire whoever or whatever that meet they criteria. It all comes down to economics. My brother who's in the US was out of job for almost a year (had 2 mouths to feed), was fortunate to find another one.
    Yeah it's about economics but then we should still take care of our own citizens too. Otherwise countries will mean nothing. The world will just become China. We do have to keep in mind that the 1/3 ratio thing includes the older generation too (which consists of less foreigners). Which means a few years later when our older population is gone, the ratio could very well be around half...
    Last edited by brapodam; 3rd November 2010 at 02:04 PM.

  11. #111

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by de_stan View Post
    Do take note the survey is done on STUDENTS and NS men! That says alot about the credibility of the findings.
    To quote your statement here...

    Why not conducting a survey to the majority of the forces here, apparently the working adults and give a figure?
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  12. #112
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulKami View Post
    To quote your statement here...

    Why not conducting a survey to the majority of the forces here, apparently the working adults and give a figure?
    remember. ns men, and students havent have to fight in the real world yet. most are still in their teens. (note i used the words most. i'm not taking into account of those who sign on)

    and perhaps as such, they dun think so much?

    for me i'm happy. sg passport go many place dun need visa

  13. #113

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by brapodam View Post
    Don't know about the scholars in other schools, but from where I came from, all the scholars did were to sleep in class and study late into the night in the hostels, not sure why they go to school anyway...
    So does that mean that these foreign students are really talents? And that locals suck cos we got to try so hard? Then it seems to me more like a case of sour grapes. If we are really better than them then we need to prove it.

    Some other forumer argued that these guys can come here, make a lot of money cos of the exchange rate and go home, doing all this while accepting half the pay. Dont forget, they come here also need to pay rental and expenses, which is in Singapore dollars.
    Insults so far:
    "Sad, got hypocrite like u.", greenieadi(2010)

  14. #114
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muckafutha View Post
    So does that mean that these foreign students are really talents? And that locals suck cos we got to try so hard? Then it seems to me more like a case of sour grapes. If we are really better than them then we need to prove it.

    Some other forumer argued that these guys can come here, make a lot of money cos of the exchange rate and go home, doing all this while accepting half the pay. Dont forget, they come here also need to pay rental and expenses, which is in Singapore dollars.
    remember... they are talents. supposedly the cream of the crop of where they come from.

    a couple of thousands of talents out of the billions from where they come from. that will put matters into perspective

    only a small percent is supposed to be elite. even in singapore.

    problem is when other country elite go to your country, it shifts the whole food chain down

  15. #115

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    But the phenomenon in SG is we r flooded by foreign workers left right n center.
    From Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Vietnam, Myanmar, Phillippines, China and several Western nations. They fill up jobs from construction workers to telemarketers to supervisors and even low level managers. Can our small economy sustain so many FWs and in doing so is it squeezing our citizens out of a job?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    remember... they are talents. supposedly the cream of the crop of where they come from.

    a couple of thousands of talents out of the billions from where they come from. that will put matters into perspective

    only a small percent is supposed to be elite. even in singapore.

    problem is when other country elite go to your country, it shifts the whole food chain down
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  16. #116

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    remember... they are talents. supposedly the cream of the crop of where they come from.

    a couple of thousands of talents out of the billions from where they come from. that will put matters into perspective

    only a small percent is supposed to be elite. even in singapore.

    problem is when other country elite go to your country, it shifts the whole food chain down

    yes, I agreed we need some of these talents,foreigners earn high salary and hold high posts. we do need them to built our HDB flat, selling ban mian in food court, cleaning the plates etc. BUT, pls stop throwing smoke bomb.... do we really need them to take managerial posts (starbuck's/TCC/watson/ntuc etc supervisor?) or taking away skilled professional jobs from citizens?

  17. #117

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    remember... they are talents. supposedly the cream of the crop of where they come from.

    a couple of thousands of talents out of the billions from where they come from. that will put matters into perspective

    only a small percent is supposed to be elite. even in singapore.

    problem is when other country elite go to your country, it shifts the whole food chain down
    I'm not disagreeing with you. But then it also means that Singaporeans got to wake up and stop thinking too highly of themselves.

    And i feel the agrument of FT's accepting lower pay doesnt hold water. The salaries ofmiddle to higher management around the region is somewhat comparable. So for a corporation to employ FT is not really about cost. Its more to do with supply. Any HR consultants/recruiters care to comment?
    Insults so far:
    "Sad, got hypocrite like u.", greenieadi(2010)

  18. #118

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muckafutha View Post
    So does that mean that these foreign students are really talents? And that locals suck cos we got to try so hard? Then it seems to me more like a case of sour grapes. If we are really better than them then we need to prove it.

    Some other forumer argued that these guys can come here, make a lot of money cos of the exchange rate and go home, doing all this while accepting half the pay. Dont forget, they come here also need to pay rental and expenses, which is in Singapore dollars.
    If we are really better but they are given an unfair advantage of 2 years (with the only disadvantage being that they are not as well versed in English), it may very well offset our own talents.

    And I do not doubt that they do pay rental and expenses, but there are many of them who do not need to support a family here. They support a family back in China, and it is significantly cheaper. They send most of their money back there and save here, so they can enjoy their life when they get back after working after a few years. That is what a smart FT does. They help our GDP figures but I'm not so sure about GNP figures.

    I doubt they are so altruistic, they come here to help us grow our economy? Sure, they do help us get business connections with China, they do help us grow our economy, but that is not their intention and they will never try that hard to do it, even if they do it as a side effect. They are not that dumb, many of them aim to use SG as a base to gain capital and expertise and then go back to China to set up their own businesses. If we really want them to help grow SG's economy, we need them to settle down in SG. Which is what the government is trying to do now, but I'm not sure of how successful such efforts will be. There are many other countries who want these people, and they know it. Why tie themselves down to SG if some other countries offer more attractive pay/opportunities for them? Because they get to do NS to defend Singapore and get marginally higher welfare benefits?
    Last edited by brapodam; 3rd November 2010 at 02:16 PM.

  19. #119
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fave78 View Post
    yes, I agreed we need some of these talents,foreigners earn high salary and hold high posts. we do need them to built our HDB flat, selling ban mian in food court, cleaning the plates etc. BUT, pls stop throwing smoke bomb.... do we really need them to take managerial posts (starbuck's/TCC/watson/ntuc etc supervisor?) or taking away skilled professional jobs from citizens?


    The problem is that pinoys come with degrees and are cheaper. I don't think they have relevant work experience in their own countires.
    I'm here to learn.:flame:

  20. #120
    Senior Member ovaltinemilo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    I thot Mr Goh didn't answer properly...if it was me, it would be easy to "1sian".... your families, friends are here...if you don't defend your family, your country, who will?

    no point going "this is a very serious...."etc...no point...

    end of the day, foreigners can come and go if they like...those with a no.4 at home, you got to go to war...hope all are stayers..
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