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Thread: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

  1. #81

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    Fair statement. Yes, we need foreigners.

    However, it is totally different stories if the foreigners earn high salary and hold high posts. We need foreigners to build our flats, but we don't need foreigners to manage citizens. As in holding managerial posts or taking away skilled professional jobs from citizens.
    If only we have the skilled citizens to fill the vacancies.

  2. #82

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    you dun need too many of these sort of people. too many ppl at the top taken up by FT means people with the necessary qualifications but need a higher pay will be regulated downwards.


    read the stats: 1 in every 3 is a foreigner. a large amt of ppl in sg would be FTs. thats ridiculously high.

    in UK: population of 62 million. number of foreigners 6.7

    thats a 1 in 10.

    we have almost 3 times more in ratio of foreigners in singapore than UK.

    with regards to the claim taht singaporeans arent working hard, any evidence or is it just your opinion?

    i'm fine with FTs if they stay in singapoer and dun run away.it helps the singaproe economy actually.

    what i cant stand, is that they sap away opportunities, and then run back to their homeland. that causes money and time that we spent on them to flow out and away.
    It works both way. Every country faces the same challenge.

    Some professionals, as they are in demand, move away, some migrate and some will..

    nobody can stop this trend!

  3. #83

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    why don't you take a look at london, which is also a city:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

    London's foreign-born population is 2,288,000 (31%), up from 1,630,000 in 1997.

    i believe you will concede that 31% and 1 in 3 are pretty close.
    Eh, that 31% is not entirely the same as what we are comparing locally. Foreign born vs Foreigners. Oddly enough, their stats combines nationals born overseas with non-citizens. Ours on the other hand, combines PRs with citizens.

    Anyways, close to 50% of those foreign born are actually British citizens. So it's closer to a 1 in 6 or 1 in 4. Depending on how accurate we believe their census to be.

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloa...oreignBorn.pdf - Table 8.6

    So yeah, even when compared to London, we're still rather "crowded".

  4. #84
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    If only we have the skilled citizens to fill the vacancies.
    We have.

    These jobs would have gone to locals if not for the many so-called FTs. They (FT) maybe cheaper, or, more expensive but not necessarily better.

  5. #85
    Member voxies09's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    We have.

    These jobs would have gone to locals if not for the many so-called FTs. They (FT) maybe cheaper, or, more expensive but not necessarily better.
    imho, there are alot of managerial position which not possible to be filled by locals only.
    quality is NOT subjective to nationality. quality is more to individual.. we dont have to see he/she is FT or Local.. as long he can do the job, he agree with the pay, he gets the job.

  6. #86

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Are we talking about Foreign talent here? Or are we talking about foreigners? Or PR?

    If one has been in a comfortable position in their career, of course it'd be easy for them to say "may the best wins". Whoever has the quality gets the job... Unless you've been job searching for a period of time.

    I was once jobless for 6 months in between my previous job and my current job. How many unethical underhands have I seen from the company I interviewed for? To count a few... One company puts my 2nd interview on hold cause they try to see if they can have the luck to find a cheaper alternatives. Yes they did of course, and my 2nd interview has been cancelled. Another company giving excuses such as "I have to pay you low, cause it's the market rate, we don't distinguish between foreigners and locals. They get the same pay."

    Of course, one of the most ultimate one. Called by the HR for interview. During the interview, the interviewer said "Why are you here? I thought we are recruiting non-local?" and during the course of interview, "I guess you can just do as much. Why we're paying you more?". Being a green-horn in the working world, having graduated from poly before going to NS and come out work for 1 year, what else can I say?

    People, look at the fact. There's definitely a difficult times for local to find jobs. Worse when you're a male, just come out from Poly, from NS, with little working experience. And that only applies to a small % of us. There are people who just lose their job during mid-career, there are people who are stressed everyday cause of some 'underhand' method of replacing them with cheaper alternatives. Cut cost are there, but bottomline? Is there something to governs the underhand handling of recruitments for those companies?

    We are working adults, we're not blind.
    また再建しましょう~ ^_^

  7. #87
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulKami View Post
    Are we talking about Foreign talent here? Or are we talking about foreigners? Or PR?

    If one has been in a comfortable position in their career, of course it'd be easy for them to say "may the best wins". Whoever has the quality gets the job... Unless you've been job searching for a period of time.

    I was once jobless for 6 months in between my previous job and my current job. How many unethical underhands have I seen from the company I interviewed for? To count a few... One company puts my 2nd interview on hold cause they try to see if they can have the luck to find a cheaper alternatives. Yes they did of course, and my 2nd interview has been cancelled. Another company giving excuses such as "I have to pay you low, cause it's the market rate, we don't distinguish between foreigners and locals. They get the same pay."

    Of course, one of the most ultimate one. Called by the HR for interview. During the interview, the interviewer said "Why are you here? I thought we are recruiting non-local?" and during the course of interview, "I guess you can just do as much. Why we're paying you more?". Being a green-horn in the working world, having graduated from poly before going to NS and come out work for 1 year, what else can I say?

    People, look at the fact. There's definitely a difficult times for local to find jobs. Worse when you're a male, just come out from Poly, from NS, with little working experience. And that only applies to a small % of us. There are people who just lose their job during mid-career, there are people who are stressed everyday cause of some 'underhand' method of replacing them with cheaper alternatives. Cut cost are there, but bottomline? Is there something to governs the underhand handling of recruitments for those companies?

    We are working adults, we're not blind.
    There are worst cases than yours. How about being jobless 2 years, age range 40-45 armed with a degree - The interviewer asks:"Why have you been doing for the last 2 years?" You say: "Actively looking for a job"(this is the truth). The fact is, no one even offered you a job in the last 2 years. Why? This is because, you only worked in 2 industries doing a certain type of job. All the interviewers want "REVELANT EXPERIENCE, REVELANT INDUSTRY". No employer seems to want to teach you these days and deem you obselete. There was also one interview that I asked for feedback on my performance on why I didn't get the job. The interviewer said that my interview went well but the company decided not to hire at the moment. This was not the first time I heard this. I also heard this a few times from recruitment agents too. Some large institutions - schools hire foreigners by groups to work in offices as support staff- admin, student services etc. These jobs should go to locals.
    Last edited by dancemania; 3rd November 2010 at 11:31 AM.
    I'm here to learn.:flame:

  8. #88

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    I wonder what he meant by defend????

    Country? Systems? Singaporean benefits?

    I will want to ask: to protect the country is a responsibilities, not to be question at all. If you hate the policy doesn't gives you the reason to not to defend or why should defend, it is a different issue not to be mixed. I wonder why a officer cannot tell the different???
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  9. #89

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    We have.

    These jobs would have gone to locals if not for the many so-called FTs. They (FT) maybe cheaper, or, more expensive but not necessarily better.
    yes, I have notice that supervisor/floor manager in retail store such as coffee tea/star buck/watson etc. are all non-local. Formally locals complain they can't speak english, so nowadays they are employing nationality that speak good english.Honestly... I dun believe local cant do their job, the only reason is the pay tey offered is really too low.


    Quote Originally Posted by voxies09 View Post
    imho, there are alot of managerial position which not possible to be filled by locals only.
    quality is NOT subjective to nationality. quality is more to individual.. we dont have to see he/she is FT or Local.. as long he can do the job, he agree with the pay, he gets the job.
    yes, i agreed! but shouldn't a guy/gal who is born locally,serve NS, has a priority over nationality/PR?

  10. #90
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jollin View Post
    yes, I have notice that supervisor/floor manager in retail store such as coffee tea/star buck/watson etc. are all non-local. Formally locals complain they can't speak english, so nowadays they are employing nationality that speak good english.Honestly... I dun believe local cant do their job, the only reason is the pay tey offered is really too low.




    yes, i agreed! but shouldn't a guy/gal who is born locally,serve NS, has a priority over nationality/PR?
    Even NTUC Fairprice has plenty of them- foreign supervisors/ floor managers. So disgusting! Locals can do the job and they can speak clearer too.
    I'm here to learn.:flame:

  11. #91

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by dancemania View Post
    Even NTUC Fairprice has plenty of them- foreign supervisors/ floor managers. So disgusting! Locals can do the job and they can speak clearer too.
    why they select them not our own????

    Some says we are expensive, some say we demand more, some say we are lazy, some say we do not want this job......
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  12. #92
    Member voxies09's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jollin View Post
    yes, i agreed! but shouldn't a guy/gal who is born locally,serve NS, has a priority over nationality/PR?
    if it's private company, mostly they will priority to the cost benefit regardless you are local or non local. Ideally, I do agree, Singaporean should be given 1st priority, but that's not the case now. Unless government said, ok if you hired Singaporean, I will give you 50% salary rebate..

  13. #93

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by dancemania View Post
    Even NTUC Fairprice has plenty of them- foreign supervisors/ floor managers. So disgusting! Locals can do the job and they can speak clearer too.
    It's probably the same all round the world. If we are holding jobs in their country, they might be red eyed and find us disgusting too (I remember as a student in Australia back in the 90s, some aussies dislike asians being there to work). Then again, that's global competition. From the employers perspective, they will in many cases prefer the ones with the lowest pay and the least benefits, economics over politics.
    Last edited by snowspeeder; 3rd November 2010 at 11:45 AM.

  14. #94

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    I have a colleague who used to work in a vitamin supplement company and she said that the company now hires about 40% Pinoys. But the best part is, Singaporeans are paid $1.1k basic salary while the Pinoys are paid $1.8k! On top of that they are also entitled to all the incentives and commission that are enjoyed by the staffs.
    Many of these Pinoys merely use Singapore as a stepping ground or springboard to jump to other countries to work such as Middle East of Canada, and because of their 'training' in Singapore they are normally accepted without even having to go for interview.

    The only party that gets to benefit from this episode are those manpower outsourcing companies that recruits foreigners and allocate them jobs in Singapore!
    Nikon D300 | MB-D10 | AF-S 17-55mm f2.8 | 35mm f1.8 | SB-900

  15. #95

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    I guess that's just capitalism. Companies just wanna maximize profit at lowest cost.

    Say there are no FTs / FWs. Companies will just migrate elsewhere where there are cheaper labor. And SG with no resources, will just be another small island... like those in the Pacific.

  16. #96

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by de_stan View Post
    I have a colleague who used to work in a vitamin supplement company and she said that the company now hires about 40% Pinoys. But the best part is, Singaporeans are paid $1.1k basic salary while the Pinoys are paid $1.8k! On top of that they are also entitled to all the incentives and commission that are enjoyed by the staffs.
    Many of these Pinoys merely use Singapore as a stepping ground or springboard to jump to other countries to work such as Middle East of Canada, and because of their 'training' in Singapore they are normally accepted without even having to go for interview.

    The only party that gets to benefit from this episode are those manpower outsourcing companies that recruits foreigners and allocate them jobs in Singapore!
    I can understand why FTs are usually paid more even on the same position as companies will have to foot 15% more for CPF (+ more days off for reservist, etc), but close to 60-70% more? That, I do not understand.

  17. #97

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    It does appear to me that Singapore is a victim of it's own success and the people suffering the most are the blue collar workers who are earning peanuts.
    But it is not difficult to imagine these foreigners soon taking over mid level posts or even supervisory or even managerial posts in the near future.
    That will be really scary!

    Quote Originally Posted by happyfrog View Post
    I guess that's just capitalism. Companies just wanna maximize profit at lowest cost.

    Say there are no FTs / FWs. Companies will just migrate elsewhere where there are cheaper labor. And SG with no resources, will just be another small island... like those in the Pacific.
    Nikon D300 | MB-D10 | AF-S 17-55mm f2.8 | 35mm f1.8 | SB-900

  18. #98

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    why they select them not our own????

    Some says we are expensive, some say we demand more, some say we are lazy, some say we do not want this job......
    Maybe we should ask ourselve.

    If I were the boss, what would I do? Engage a local or a FT....???

    It is a real and cruel world!

    My boss used to tell me, you fight for yourself and nobody will help you!

    I accepted it so what should I do? Move forward and how?

    ..... this has been my greatest method... add service to your job... anticipate and do before the boss ask yiou to do so, be proactive........ etc

    I once lost a job and I had 3 mouths to feed ... blame the government, never why should I. I went back to start as an apprentice with money just enough to feed all. I survive and now I am confortable so do my family.

  19. #99
    Member macaroni's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    On the subject of foreign talent, putting jobs aside for now. U feel proud to see the "Singapore" football team take to the field? Or the table tennis team win medals? I don't.

  20. #100

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by macaroni View Post
    On the subject of foreign talent, putting jobs aside for now. U feel proud to see the "Singapore" football team take to the field? Or the table tennis team win medals? I don't.
    I dont understand that table tennis thing. But if this is not done, SG will never shine in sports.

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