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Thread: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

  1. #61

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by brapodam View Post
    There are locals who can fill their posts, if they are actually provided the same educational opportunities as the foreigners.
    That's not true at all. Of the entire population not all will be smart enough to become lawyers / doctors etc regardless of the amount of education given to them. And among those who are smart enough no amount of education will give them the calibre / quality that will allow them to excel in their field. For the country to be competitive you need these sort of people.

    Don't look for excuses of why Singaporeans are losing opportunities to FTs. If you feel sour that someone from another country is making more than you or is marrying the chiobu that you fancy then you can only blame yourself for not working hard enough.

  2. #62
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    That's not true at all. Of the entire population not all will be smart enough to become lawyers / doctors etc regardless of the amount of education given to them. And among those who are smart enough no amount of education will give them the calibre / quality that will allow them to excel in their field. For the country to be competitive you need these sort of people.

    Don't look for excuses of why Singaporeans are losing opportunities to FTs. If you feel sour that someone from another country is making more than you or is marrying the chiobu that you fancy then you can only blame yourself for not working hard enough.
    you dun need too many of these sort of people. too many ppl at the top taken up by FT means people with the necessary qualifications but need a higher pay will be regulated downwards.


    read the stats: 1 in every 3 is a foreigner. a large amt of ppl in sg would be FTs. thats ridiculously high.

    in UK: population of 62 million. number of foreigners 6.7

    thats a 1 in 10.

    we have almost 3 times more in ratio of foreigners in singapore than UK.

    with regards to the claim taht singaporeans arent working hard, any evidence or is it just your opinion?

    i'm fine with FTs if they stay in singapoer and dun run away.it helps the singaproe economy actually.

    what i cant stand, is that they sap away opportunities, and then run back to their homeland. that causes money and time that we spent on them to flow out and away.

  3. #63

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    That's not true at all. Of the entire population not all will be smart enough to become lawyers / doctors etc regardless of the amount of education given to them. And among those who are smart enough no amount of education will give them the calibre / quality that will allow them to excel in their field. For the country to be competitive you need these sort of people.

    Don't look for excuses of why Singaporeans are losing opportunities to FTs. If you feel sour that someone from another country is making more than you or is marrying the chiobu that you fancy then you can only blame yourself for not working hard enough.
    And economic growth is not everything. We need them to stay competitive, that I don't doubt. I'm also not one of those shallow fools who are sour about them stealing away chiobus, if they even do that. But equity is another big issue here, and economic growth, no matter what, will lead to a trade off in terms of equity as long as we follow a capitalist system.

    Also, I don't believe that our population is really that cui, some of them just don't have that money for tuition and all that stuff. They're just not being able to perform their best as they are demoralised by the unfairness (or perceived unfairness - that still affects them nevertheless), and are unable to reach their full potential. There are people who spend thousands of dollars for primary school tuition and I laugh at them for wasting their money, but hey, tuition really does help, even if it's just psychologically.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    what i cant stand, is that they sap away opportunities, and then run back to their homeland. that causes money and time that we spent on them to flow out and away.
    True, my dad told me that there are FTs in his company who just work for 2 years and fly back to China and with the money they earn, set up their own business. They can do that with 2 years of salary (they do save a lot, of course, but look what locals can get with 2 years of salary)
    Last edited by brapodam; 2nd November 2010 at 08:13 PM.

  4. #64

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    That's not true at all. Of the entire population not all will be smart enough to become lawyers / doctors etc regardless of the amount of education given to them. And among those who are smart enough no amount of education will give them the calibre / quality that will allow them to excel in their field. For the country to be competitive you need these sort of people.

    Don't look for excuses of why Singaporeans are losing opportunities to FTs. If you feel sour that someone from another country is making more than you or is marrying the chiobu that you fancy then you can only blame yourself for not working hard enough.
    If everyone is equal, then you can say so, what puts us at a disadvantage is that we need a certain amount to live in singapore and grow our families, SOME FTs are able to survive staying here with a lower pay as they want to make money and go back/remit back to their families. Another disadvantage for the singaporean male is reservist and NS obligations. If you take all the disadvantages of being a local and complete, who is the employer going to hire?

    Stop giving the government too many excuses on how the general population is sore right now. Liberal immigration policies only serves short terms gains for the government to grow GDP but will cause long hardship of the people of Singapore. Everyone is effected by it expect companies where wages can be suppress or lowered when manpower is concern. We do not have a minimum wage to protect the bottom 17% of our workforce whom have very little means to retire and enjoy life.
    Last edited by Belle&Sebastain; 2nd November 2010 at 08:20 PM.

  5. #65

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Generally, did anyone actually explore on the ethics of local company when hiring people? Cut cost is one thing... but the basic ethics isn't even there...

    Yes, we can say we can't survive without foreigners, yes we can say we can't survive without foreign investment... But bottomline is that finance aside, there is a serious social problem developing. Can the people at the top see?

    This basic question has been answered already in that forum. What else we have to say? Money money money, and all social problems aside... What sense of belonging we're giving to the next generation?
    また再建しましょう~ ^_^

  6. #66
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulKami View Post
    Generally, did anyone actually explore on the ethics of local company when hiring people? Cut cost is one thing... but the basic ethics isn't even there...

    Yes, we can say we can't survive without foreigners, yes we can say we can't survive without foreign investment... But bottomline is that finance aside, there is a serious social problem developing. Can the people at the top see?

    This basic question has been answered already in that forum. What else we have to say? Money money money, and all social problems aside... What sense of belonging we're giving to the next generation?
    i am the next generation and my main priority is survival first.

  7. #67
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    i am the next generation and my main priority is survival first.
    Well, you're gonna find it getting more and more difficult....
    Michael Lim
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  8. #68
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotoudavid View Post
    ďYou want to have a home. Whoís going to build your HDB flat?Ē said the Minister.
    Fair statement. Yes, we need foreigners.

    However, it is totally different stories if the foreigners earn high salary and hold high posts. We need foreigners to build our flats, but we don't need foreigners to manage citizens. As in holding managerial posts or taking away skilled professional jobs from citizens.

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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Well, you're gonna find it getting more and more difficult....
    oh whey

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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    We need FT in other areas, but not managerial level. (Only boss around, but know nuts)
    We dun need their family members to be here. (Ah ma, Ah gong all here, are they FTs?)
    We dun need them to make up the population figure. (Everywhere in Singapore, even in neigbourhood)
    We dun need them to fight with us, the true Singapore for HDB flats.(Look around ur HDB flats, how many household own by FTs)
    We dun need their off springs here to fight for academic supremacy and slots.(Most of them dun even speak proper english)

    With the above mentioned points noted,
    We Singaporean can have affordable HDB flats.
    The younger generation Singaporean will not be too worry for not able to get into the institution they wanted most.
    Local talents will be able to pursue their role in managerial level.

    'Why our birth rate is decreasing' = higher living standards + low wages increment

  11. #71

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    in UK: population of 62 million. number of foreigners 6.7
    hello, please note that when you talk about uk, you're talking about many things.

    when you can find huge plots of land with sheep grazing peacefully and getting to the next house takes a 5 minute drive in singapore, then i concede, you can just pick and choose numbers and compare singapore to the uk when it comes to degree of globalisation.

    why don't you take a look at london, which is also a city:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

    London's foreign-born population is 2,288,000 (31%), up from 1,630,000 in 1997.

    i believe you will concede that 31% and 1 in 3 are pretty close.

  12. #72
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    hello, please note that when you talk about uk, you're talking about many things.

    when you can find huge plots of land with sheep grazing peacefully and getting to the next house takes a 5 minute drive in singapore, then i concede, you can just pick and choose numbers and compare singapore to the uk when it comes to degree of globalisation.

    why don't you take a look at london, which is also a city:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

    London's foreign-born population is 2,288,000 (31%), up from 1,630,000 in 1997.

    i believe you will concede that 31% and 1 in 3 are pretty close.
    hmm. yea i shld had taken a city into consideration thanks for the adding on

    anyways, are the FTs there taking up a lot of opportunities? cause you been there, so perhaps you could share your experiences
    Last edited by allenleonhart; 2nd November 2010 at 10:27 PM.

  13. #73

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    hmm. yea i shld had taken a city into consideration thanks for the adding on
    yeah, well, every city that has opened its doors somewhat faces these problems:

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-immigrants.do

    http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...3172614AAoR8CI

    i think if you bother to do a bit of reading up, you will see that everyone's complaining about the same ol' things... being squeezed, having to fight for jobs, having too many people who can't speak proper english (or at least comprehensible english)...

    there is a tendency for humans to think that their troubles are the greatest, and that when something happens to them, it is the sole thing echoing in the universe at that very point in time, and that life is absolutely unfair - only for them, only them, and just them. everyone else is better off.

    whether that's true or not, you decide.

    to answer your question about opportunities, what do you think? singaporeans are pretty competitive in the financial sector there, people are fighting over whether there should be an immigration cap:

    http://www.channel4.com/news/immigra...covery-at-risk

    all these are out there for you to read, or you could choose to believe that singapore is a unique little country with its own little unique problems that are so special and we are absolutely tormented and oh boy anywhere else would be better.
    Last edited by night86mare; 2nd November 2010 at 10:32 PM.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    why don't you take a look at london, which is also a city:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London

    London's foreign-born population is 2,288,000 (31%), up from 1,630,000 in 1997.

    i believe you will concede that 31% and 1 in 3 are pretty close.
    Haha... my gripe would be that if I were born a UK citizen, I would run away to rear sheep instead of living in the city.

    But I don't have a choice in Singapore. (Unless maybe I go find a kelong to rear fishes in?)
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
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  15. #75
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by arctos View Post
    Haha... my gripe would be that if I were born a UK citizen, I would run away to rear sheep instead of living in the city.

    But I don't have a choice in Singapore. (Unless maybe I go find a kelong to rear fishes in?)
    No true kelongs these days... these days it's a floating fish farm and the cost of running it is not low either....
    Michael Lim
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  16. #76
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    yeah, well, every city that has opened its doors somewhat faces these problems:

    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-immigrants.do

    http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...3172614AAoR8CI

    i think if you bother to do a bit of reading up, you will see that everyone's complaining about the same ol' things... being squeezed, having to fight for jobs, having too many people who can't speak proper english (or at least comprehensible english)...

    there is a tendency for humans to think that their troubles are the greatest, and that when something happens to them, it is the sole thing echoing in the universe at that very point in time, and that life is absolutely unfair - only for them, only them, and just them. everyone else is better off.

    whether that's true or not, you decide.

    to answer your question about opportunities, what do you think? singaporeans are pretty competitive in the financial sector there, people are fighting over whether there should be an immigration cap:

    http://www.channel4.com/news/immigra...covery-at-risk

    all these are out there for you to read, or you could choose to believe that singapore is a unique little country with its own little unique problems that are so special and we are absolutely tormented and oh boy anywhere else would be better.

    yep. i'm fine with FTs lar. my stand never changed. so long as they are staying here instead of running off back to homeland, its good for the economy.

    they come, they have to eat, have to spend. we all get to earn. money stays in singapore.
    but if they come, they earn, spend less and remit the rest back to mother land....

  17. #77

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    yep. i'm fine with FTs lar. my stand never changed. so long as they are staying here instead of running off back to homeland, its good for the economy.

    they come, they have to eat, have to spend. we all get to earn. money stays in singapore.
    but if they come, they earn, spend less and remit the rest back to mother land....


    pls take note that the causeway will be jamm this thursday nit

  18. #78

    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by arctos View Post
    Haha... my gripe would be that if I were born a UK citizen, I would run away to rear sheep instead of living in the city.

    But I don't have a choice in Singapore. (Unless maybe I go find a kelong to rear fishes in?)
    you don't?

    well, there are goats and fish.... just go and take a walk around lim chu kang area.

    don't think you can be born in the city and then end up gathering a bunch of stray sheep to start a farm in the countryside. same thing applies here and there - want a farm, but no parental money.... you have to work, save, and then have your farm.

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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    i think it boils down to both opportunities and hardwork? you cant do without either.

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    Default Re: I really donít know what Iím defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    you don't?

    well, there are goats and fish.... just go and take a walk around lim chu kang area.

    don't think you can be born in the city and then end up gathering a bunch of stray sheep to start a farm in the countryside. same thing applies here and there - want a farm, but no parental money.... you have to work, save, and then have your farm.
    Haha the "farms" in lim chu kang is different lah. These are intensive farms for efficient output. I've never been to the UK so I don't know if their farms are also thus commercialized, but what I had in mind was more the Enid Blyton kind...

    Granted, nobody said it's going to be easy or cheap to buy that big piece of land on which to build a farm. But for large countries, there exist an option to run away from the maddening crowd in cities (whether or not one chooses to do so for long term or temporarily). In Sg one has to go for a "holiday".
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
    .:Flickr:.

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