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Thread: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

  1. #1

    Default I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Young Singaporeans like Lim Zi Rui are becoming increasingly disillusioned and they’re not afraid to let it show.

    The 23-year-old final-year aerospace engineering student was among a 1,000-strong crowd who attended a Ministerial Forum organised on Friday by Nanyang Technological University (NTU) Students’ Union.

    Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong was the guest-of-honour.

    During a dialogue session after SM Goh’s main address, Lim stood up and asked if the Minister was aware that many young people no longer felt a sense of ownership in Singapore.

    “When I was younger, I was very proud of being a Singaporean,” said Lim.

    “But that was about five, ten years ago. Five years later, with all the changes in policies and the influx of foreign talent, I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.”

    He said this was a view that many of the men he served with during National Service also held.

    “I feel that there is a dilution of the Singapore spirit in youth… We don’t really feel comfortable in our country any more,” he said.

    Mr Goh replied, “‘This is one early sign of danger… If this is happening, it is very serious.” He went on to ask Mr Lim why he felt disconnected.

    Mr Lim told SM Goh, ”‘I’m still serving as an officer and I definitely would love to defend Singapore.”

    But he said the key difference between him and his foreign friends was, “I tell them, this is my country. I can’t just leave here whenever I want to. You can come and play and work here, but I have to stay here.”

    SM Goh responded by defending the government’s policy of welcoming foreigners.

    “You want to have a home. Who’s going to build your HDB flat?” said the Minister.

    Lim replied that due to the inability to afford the sky-high public housing prices, his brother had to call off his engagement.

    “My brother got engaged, but lost his engagement because he could not afford an HDB flat,” said Lim, who went on to state that his question was not about “integrating foreigners”.

    “My question was, how are we going to help the younger generation feel a sense of belonging to Singapore? I don’t think it’s about integrating foreigners,” said Lim.

    “This is your country,” SM Goh replied. “What do you want me to do to make you feel you belong?”

    “For my part, don’t worry about me,” Mr Lim said. “I will definitely do something, if I can, for Singapore. But I can tell you honestly that the sentiment on the ground is a bit different.”

    “If this is happening, it is very serious,” said SM Goh.

    “If the majority feel they don’t belong here, then we have a fundamental problem. Then I would ask myself: What am I doing here? Why should I be working for people who don’t feel they belong over here?” asked SM Goh.

    Earlier on during the dialogue session, the Minister made the point that the next General Elections, due to be held by February 2012, would be a “watershed” for the future of Singapore from which a “fourth Prime Minister and a core team of younger ministers will emerge”.

    SM Goh also challenged the young undergrads in his audience to “make a difference to Singapore” by joining local politics.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

  2. #2
    Member voxies09's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    I think ALL Singaporean, PR, Work Permit holder and everybody whose working and living in singapore should defence Singapore ... defence Singapore does not mean = military service, but in the sense, helping Singapore Economy, Social, and Law.

  3. #3

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by voxies09 View Post
    I think ALL Singaporean, PR, Work Permit holder and everybody whose working and living in singapore should defence Singapore ... defence Singapore does not mean = military service, but in the sense, helping Singapore Economy, Social, and Law.
    this should happen ideally.. but...

  4. #4

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Total defence is not only about military defence. If you ask a foreigner to hold a gun and fight he will run but if you ask him to help build the economy he will. Not due self righteous reasons but because it benefits him to do so and I don't see anything wrong with that. Singapore makes use of foreigners' talents to compete and as a result we are one of the most vibrant and prosperous countries in the world.

  5. #5

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    victim of our own success maybe..

  6. #6

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by voxies09 View Post
    I think ALL Singaporean, PR, Work Permit holder and everybody whose working and living in singapore should defence Singapore ... defence Singapore does not mean = military service, but in the sense, helping Singapore Economy, Social, and Law.
    and what make you think PR, Work Permit holder, etc did not contribute helping Singapore Economy, Social, Law?

  7. #7
    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    The younger generations have been too comfortable with their life having been born in a nation of peace thus taking granted our rights as an independent and sovereign nation free from foreign and domestic struggles.

    It might just take history for it to repeat itself before the mass majority of Singaporeans could possibly regain back the sense of patriotism to their homeland.
    Last edited by 9V-Orion Images; 1st November 2010 at 08:12 PM.
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Did anybody ask him to defend in the first place?

    if NS is abolished now, how many parents will still send their sons to the army voluntarily? People talk about defending a country like choosing between Nikon and Canon. "I dunno which is good anymore...". ya ya..

    The guy has done nothing for his country yet. Not shed a drop of blood and now he questioned our ex -prime?
    Last edited by lancey; 1st November 2010 at 08:15 PM.

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    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    The younger generations have been too comfortable with their life having been born in a nation of peace thus taking granted our rights as a independent and sovereign nation free from foreign and domestic struggles.

    It will take history to repeat itself before the mass majority of Singaporeans to possibly regain their sense of patriotism.
    is it fair?

    if singapore offers good TnC to foreigners and ppl come,

    then if other country offers us better TnC shldnt we go too?

    if u need a ww3 before ppl start to feel patriotic, then i think it is really sad.

    my take on this case: if i'm a singaporean, i expect certainly to be slightly better off than my foreign counterparts. its what the ppl before me fought for, to have a stable country for the future generations to prosper in. isnt it? it would be what i am defending, to ensure that my future generation will have a better life.

    yet that illusion seems to just repeat itself. to defend for something better, yet something better always comes with worst problems.

    sure some will argue that we need the competition to keep an edge. yet the funny part would be then: are our own singaporeans so useless that they have to rely on foreign competition before they can improve? cant we just have competition amongst our ownselves?

    sneeze. sorry i might have rattled off point. just found it weird and i just needed to get it off my chest.
    Last edited by allenleonhart; 1st November 2010 at 08:16 PM.

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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by lancey View Post
    Did anybody ask him to defend in the first place?

    if NS is abolished now, how many parents will still send their sons to the army voluntarily? People talk about defending a country like choosing between Nikon and Canon. "I dunno which is good anymore...". ya ya..

    The guy has done nothing for his country yet. Not shed a drop of blood and now he questioned our ex -prime?
    no one ask him to defend. it just so happens u will be slapped a nice fat fine and be jailed for not "defending"

  11. #11

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    no one ask him to defend. it just so happens u will be slapped a nice fat fine and be jailed for not "defending"
    If that's the case, the guy should voluntarily extend his army days and sign on and keep defending. Walk the talk. I hope he has already plan to do so! But i doubt so lor.

  12. #12

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    If not, what is he? another opportunist big mouth getting philosophical about how miserable being a singaporean is?

  13. #13
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    so far... i went to the OCS for their openhouse. most of the officers are actually passionate abt leading. while most dun sign on, many take up crucial roles in our society. a few of my teachers in my sch used to be officers in some shape and form lor. its a good experience with leadership. but i'm not cut out for it so not interested.

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    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    is it fair?

    if singapore offers good TnC to foreigners and ppl come,

    then if other country offers us better TnC shldnt we go too?
    All I just have to say is that that grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
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    Member 9V-Orion Images's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    so far... i went to the OCS for their openhouse. most of the officers are actually passionate abt leading. while most dun sign on, many take up crucial roles in our society. a few of my teachers in my sch used to be officers in some shape and form lor. its a good experience with leadership. but i'm not cut out for it so not interested.
    Wait till you enter NS then you will know that most orificers are FUBAR.
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    Wait till you enter NS then you will know that most orificers are FUBAR.
    fubar?

  17. #17

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9V-Orion Images View Post
    All I just have to say is that that grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
    Yea, every country got its own problem / issue and strong points. Just see how much we accept it or not.

  18. #18

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    “My brother got engaged, but lost his engagement because he could not afford an HDB flat,” said Lim

    oh dear.................................. i think the issue here is that the brother needs to find a better person to marry if that were the case...

  19. #19
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    “My brother got engaged, but lost his engagement because he could not afford an HDB flat,” said Lim

    oh dear.................................. i think the issue here is that the brother needs to find a better person to marry if that were the case...
    u leh? getting hdb or private housing?

  20. #20

    Default Re: I really don’t know what I’m defending any more.

    I think it's mainly because people are starting to feel that being a citizen offers only marginal benefits compared to being a PR, and they start to wonder why they are treated in such a way. Sometimes people even feel that foreigners are treated better than us and have an unfair advantage over us (free education plus they were brought here knowing just about everything - only need to translate into English, so they have an edge over locals in terms of educational opportunities). Some of them also don't respect us at all, I have seen some of those foreign talents sleeping over morning assembly (I salute them for being able to sleep while standing though ) when the national anthem is playing.

    Sometimes I do wonder if we really need such high growth rates, and if these foreigners can really solve the root problem of our economic woes. We always complain that people are not having babies, but costs of living are going up so high, people's salaries are not going up that fast. Bringing those foreigners in will just lower wage rates because they are willing - and able to accept lower wages. Not because they can live with lower wages and we can't, but because the Chinese currency is artificially weak and they can just send money back to their families in China and let them enjoy life. With the same salary, they can probably buy at least a condo or even a bungalow in China, while we struggle to afford a HDB. We just keep worsening the problem by doing this, and we will need to "import" even more and more as time goes on, and our own population growth rates will continue dropping as wages keep dropping (or not rising as fast as costs of living)
    Last edited by brapodam; 1st November 2010 at 10:58 PM.

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