Originally Posted by StreetShooter
Originally Posted by StreetShooter
i think this discussion exposes what clubsnap is all about
Originally Posted by bobafat
Be fair. It just individual affair
i like the feel! Beon was wearing my ex classmate' JS clothes for the extra large works. "loneliness in the heartland". local guy "Beon", local clothes, local model, Stark expression, fashionwise or concept i got it. simple to me
Both my wife and i enjoyed the 5 mintures when we were in the exhibition, not to see nice photographs, but to see interesting concepts. We like the feel of what we saw, adding to the fact i seen before JC shooting in the wet market on TV + the narative here.
what happen then, we were thinking of some more concepts to shoot along the way. The exhibition was simple but effective for us. sorry not trying to be funny here, just our honest feelings.
We also saw John Cosgove (not sure spelling???) and family around. His wife was carrying a 1 series DSLR with lens and a huge tripod. Nice to see a wife so supportive of his husband passion. John was lugging another body around with his 2 kids.
really please read more between the lines, if you have nothing good to say don't say it at all.
Last edited by Belle&Sebastain; 27th June 2004 at 11:29 PM.
Honest Disagreement Is Often A Good Sign Of Progress. --GhandiOriginally Posted by mattlock
I'm all for the creation of a sub-forum for intellectual discourse of photography. I've rather enjoyed reading the different views put up by both mattlock & Minoxman as I feel such debates are few and far between in CS. It would be a good thing for all to have a space for such discussions which rouses our thought and opinion. Hopefully one day I'll be able to formulate my views as like these two gentlemen have.
Last edited by foxtwo; 27th June 2004 at 11:44 PM.
In reference to the John Clang Exhibit, I would recommend people to take a trip down, take a 5 min viewing and form their own opinions. Then if they so wish, come to this thread and try to understand the views presented.
Personally, I don't feel it was a waste of time as it's always a good thing to be exposed to different artforms. While nothing technically impressive, his pictures do invoke feeling from me. Not as strong as to make me a fan, but I do applaud him making his ideas happen.
my photography skills is probably nothing compared to many here, but nonetheless i spend lots of time honing me skills. without any intention of being boastful, i aspire to be an artist.
"i am an artist, and i've got something to say" is a phrase that stuck to me.
not all art is is meant to be seen or understood by the massess, sometimes it is a route of self expression that needs realisation.
everyone is entitled their views, so dun get personal with each other.
save your explainations, you friends dun need it, and you enemies probably wouldn't believe you.
i think he was not really mentioning you.Originally Posted by Clown
The saying "a prophet at home is without honour" comes to mind. I'm oddly ambivalent after reading through this thread and looking at JC's work.
I must admit that much of what I've seen doesn't fall under the conventionally pretty category. The ideas behind his photos don't seem to jump out, so maybe we think it lacks impact.
But not all stories are Jeffrey Archer. Not all stories give a solid twist at the end and blow your mind. Some stories lull and ebb, and many classics go deep when elaborating a point that would have fit in one sentence. But that's style for you.
I find myself at the beginning of the circle. I think I've taken a few aesthetically pleasing shots, but when I attempt to push the envelope a little, the photos end up looking like they came from Stevie Wonder on a point-and-shoot.
It is easy to understand pop. When you delve deeper into any subject it becomes more esoteric, and to the uninitiated it looks very amateur.
I'm the uninitiated. I think JC's work looks ordinary. But I'm willing to push ahead a little bit further and find out what he has to say; beyond the obvious. Maybe I'll discover the genius that is Minoxman's niece.
Last edited by Electrin; 28th June 2004 at 10:18 AM.
Haven't seen his work, but for the pics on his website, I think only fit to be in the newbies section in Clubsnap forum. Simply uninteresting!
I think Elizabeth is right. When one is famous, he/she can shoot a pile of manure and everyone will say it's good stuff. I think he's merely lucky to strike it rich in NY. Not jealous of his achievement, but nowadays, everyone needs a little bit of luck to strike.
took me ages to read this thread. and i skimmed through it coz it was so messy.
art is subjective. i don't want to denounce john clang.
as a fashion photographer, he has done an amazing job. i dunno about how egoistic he is or what, i don't care. it's the work he produces. his fashion photography is really good, it reeks of an artistic smell all the way from NYC to singapore. a person who does not appreciate fashion photography will not appreciate what he shoots... i'd recommend intense browsing of fashion magazines and works by fashion photographers as a comparison to how good john clang is doing.
clang as an artist... i do agree that yes some of his works are not exactly very impressive. however art is in the eye of the beholder. i know somebody said that if an artist has to explain his work then it isn't worth or what... but an artist can see things that we do not see. it does not mean the photograph or the work of art is bad. the artist just saw something we did not see. the reason for explaining ? because WE ARE TOO MEDIOCRE TO UNDERSTAND THE PIECE OF ART.
i had very mixed feelings about the backs of different people john clang took. when i first saw it i was impressed. when i saw it the 2nd time a week later i was absolutely disgusted. upon reading SS's comments about him making a lousy streetphotographer i started to realise that series of art was CRAP. and then clang explains himself - that's his parents and parents-in-law. now THAT'S ART. that simple explanation embodies everything. i was the mediocre one, not him.
i've yet to visit the exhibition. i've seen his commercial works and i'm nothing short of impressed. i've seen this particular series where he cracked his filter and took a whole series of photographs with a cracked filter. that's art. you don't have to understand. you just have to feel what he's shooting. if you don't feel it, or you don't see it, it doesn't make you less of a photographer, it just means that you didn't feel or see what the photographer did.
as for any person on the board being some other alter ego, i don't really care.
okay from a normal photographer's viewpoint. yes, i'll give my take.
i'm mostly unimpressed by his personal works.
from an artist's viewpoints,
i hope you all get what i mean.
Last edited by sequitur; 28th June 2004 at 04:26 PM.
Only in America my friend....only in America. Look at William Hung.Originally Posted by Virgo
The issue is not so much if JC's exhibition appeals to everyone. The issue is why none of us can hold an exhibition with our own concepts in Jendela. Yes you can, if you have proven yourself like Matlock said earlier. But why is that so? Does it make this particular exhibit any more important or relevant than any of ours(who haven't made it already)?
Some of the pictures in this forum touched me. Personally I think our Zaren should go for an exhibition. If JC can hold one, so can he...or maybe Streetshooter.They have concepts too you know? Perhaps deeper than you think. The only difference I see is the exhibitors' names, looking at their work. Don't you agree? Honestly?
I can shoot a cat on 9 different coloured walls and call it "Nine Lives". Art.
But I might have to make it first, in NYC.
..... so..... armed with the various opinions and prejudices from this thread I dropped by the Esplanade during lunchtime today and had a look for myself.
On the first pass after a very initial cursory glance, I understood what SS, Minoxman and the other naysayers were saying.
On subsequent .....and slower examination and contemplation .... I also understood what Mattlock was trying to say in his replies.
But most importantly I saw a piece of JC beyond his public image ..... and to me that was important.
Ironically there seems a subtle veil that perhaps reflects John the recluse (incredible, against the world of high fashion he is involved in ) and in Beon, some of his Heartland spirit.
Without going through all this debate, in all honesty I might have breezed through the images with impunity and wondered if I could not have done a better job.
But armed with all these opinions both positive and negative, it truly enriched my time. To be honest, I'm still befuddled in certain ways which I'll try to put in words after my 2nd go at it tomorrow.
If you're going there to have a look at the exhibition yourself, I would strongly suggest printing out a copy of this great thread and bringing it there for another read to understand the epic struggle between the 2 camps.
Putting aside a couple of these nasty words exchanged earlier, its been an education that helped my own mediocre understanding of what art embodies and where and how that envelope is being pushed.
No offence meant to anybody at all
Last edited by ed9119; 28th June 2004 at 05:45 PM.
shaddap and just shoot .... up close
I understand where you're coming from, but I totally disagree with the above statement. that's a very ummm to put it lightly, strange way to go about appreciating photos or art. so everytime you don't understand or feel the pic sucks you turn right around and berate yourself for being too pathetic an arty person enough to understand the cheem-ness of the artist? I also wonder if it wasn't john clang but john doe that held the exhibition would you also feel like the above statement? or is it cuz its someone famous hence you automatically accord a high level of respect regardless of the image strength and instead self critize?Originally Posted by sequitur
I still feel everyone has their own cheem views. everyone has at one time or the other tried taking a pic that really described how they felt. yes their views are impt and worth a listen. but if the pics aren't strong enuff to bring the message across or not powerful enuff to make you stop and think, then hey the pics are lousy. period.
If I took lousy photos that confused audiences more than impress them or make them think, then I would be the first one to admit that I have failed as an artist. I won't hide behind a whole bunch of cheem mambo jambo to justify my photo, EVEN if I really truly meant the cheem stuff from the bottom of my heart. If my photo doesn't deliver the msg, then as a medium of delivery, it has failed. I might as well hang empty frames and just stand there and talk about how my photos would look and what they mean.
Coming back to the main pt, I agree everyone has different views. if JC's works mean something, then good, for this part of the public audience, his works were effective and good, if JC's works don't mean anything to others, then to them, he has failed. Nothing personal against him. BUT to walk away thinking "oh I think his photos aren't great, but hey its prob becuz I"m not worthy enuff to be an audience cuz I am too mediocre to understand him" then goodness, there's something wrong there! esp since its from sequitur who has some good works here and therefore shouldn't belittle himself or his taste!
If the artist's work don't work for you, that's his/her problem, not yours. And sequitur does have some nice work going around here.
In life, one man's meat is another's shiit, or vice versa.
always the Light, .... always.
I am not a famous person nor well known. But I wish to document the lives of ordinary Singaporean in this pressurized cooker pot of a country. I am thinking of doing a series of shoots showing.
1) Louhan fishshit flooding in a aquarium tank
2) birdshit on a brand new car in the showroom
3) dogshit on the road under a no littering sign
4) catshit on a step beside a sweeper broom
5) goatshit in a Hayes farm in the pen
6) horseshit in the Turf club at the legs of jockeys
7) Lastly human sh1t in a toilet bowl, unflushed
I will call this Shitty Living in Singapore. Do you think the Durian or any Gallery in Singapore will be keen to exhibit this series of photos
Originally Posted by Minoxman