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Thread: K5 vs KX Pt II

  1. #21

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Camera Pentax K-x
    Exposure 0.05 sec (1/20)
    Aperture f/8.0
    Focal Length 31 mm
    Focal Length 31.0 mm
    ISO Speed 6400
    Exposure Bias 0 EV
    Flash Off, Did not fire
    Orientation Horizontal (normal)
    X-Resolution 72 dpi
    Y-Resolution 72 dpi
    Software K-x Ver 1.00
    Date and Time (Modified) 2010:10:17 11:01:10
    YCbCr Positioning Co-sited
    Exposure Program Aperture-priority AE
    Date and Time (Original) 2010:10:17 11:01:10
    Date and Time (Digitized) 2010:10:17 11:01:10
    Metering Mode Spot
    Color Space sRGB
    Sensing Method One-chip color area
    Custom Rendered Normal
    Exposure Mode Auto
    White Balance Auto
    Focal Length In35mm Format 46 mm
    Scene Capture Type Standard
    Contrast Normal
    Saturation Normal
    Sharpness Soft
    Subject Distance Range Close
    Pentax Version 5.1.0.0
    Pentax Model Type 0
    Preview Image Size 640x480
    Preview Image Length 23002
    Preview Image Start 12744
    Pentax Model ID Unknown (0x12dfe)
    Date 2010:10:17
    Time 11:01:10
    Quality Best
    Flash Mode Off, Did not fire; Internal
    Focus Mode AF-S
    AFPoint Selected Fixed Center
    Exposure Time 1/20
    FNumber 8.0
    ISO 6400
    Exposure Compensation 0
    Metering Mode Spot
    Auto Bracketing 0 EV, No Extended Bracket
    White Balance Auto
    Saturation Normal
    Contrast Normal
    Sharpness Med Soft
    DSPFirmware Version 1.00.00.06
    CPUFirmware Version 1.00.00.06
    Effective LV 4.4
    Image Processing Unprocessed
    Picture Mode Aperture Priority; 1/3 EV steps
    Drive Mode Single-frame; No Timer; Remote Control; Single Exposure
    Color Space sRGB
    Preview Image Borders 28 28 0 0
    Lens Type smc PENTAX-FA 31mm F1.8AL Limited
    Sensitivity Adjust 0
    Image Processing Count 0
    Camera Temperature 30 C
    AELock Off
    Noise Reduction Off
    Flash Exposure Comp 0
    Image Tone Natural
    SRResult Not ready
    Shake Reduction On (5)
    SRHalf Press Time 0.00 s
    SRFocal Length 32 mm
    Shutter Count 3280
    Dynamic Range Expansion Off
    High ISONoise Reduction Unknown (4 1 56)
    AFAdjustment 0
    Black Point 27 2 1 26
    White Point 14464 8448 8448 16768
    Picture Mode2 Aperture Priority
    Program Line Normal
    EVSteps 1/3 EV steps
    E- Dial In Program P Shift
    Aperture Ring Use Prohibited
    Flash Options Normal
    Metering Mode2 Spot
    AFPoint Mode Fixed Center
    Focus Mode2 AF-S
    AFPoint Selected2 Center
    ISOFloor 6400
    Drive Mode2 Remote Control
    Exposure Bracket Step Size 0.5
    Bracket Shot Number n/a
    White Balance Set Auto
    Multiple Exposure Set Off
    AEExposure Time 1/20
    AEAperture 8.0
    AE_ ISO 6400
    AEXv 0
    AEBXv 0
    AEMin Exposure Time 1/5461
    AEProgram Mode Av, B or X
    AEMax Aperture 0.2
    AEMax Aperture2 1.8
    AEMin Aperture 2
    AEMetering Mode [2], [3], [7]
    Flash Exposure Comp Set +8.0
    Auto Aperture On
    Min Aperture 22
    Lens FStops 7.5
    Nominal Max Aperture 1.7
    Nominal Min Aperture 23
    Max Aperture 1.8
    Flash Status Off
    Internal Flash Mode Off, Normal
    External Flash Mode Off
    Internal Flash Strength 60
    TTL_ DA_ AUp 150
    TTL_ DA_ ADown 44
    TTL_ DA_ BUp 172
    TTL_ DA_ BDown 0
    AEMetering Segments 3.4 4.0 5.5 3.8 4.9 4.8 5.0 4.2 4.0 5.1 4.6 4.1 4.2 4.8 4.4 4.1
    Flash Metering Segments 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Slave Flash Metering Segments 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Manufacture Date 2009:12:24
    Production Code 2.1
    Internal Serial Number 8020156
    Power Source Unknown (0x12)
    Battery States 4 0
    Battery ADBody No Load 3
    Battery ADBody Load 0
    Battery ADGrip No Load 2
    Battery ADGrip Load 170
    AFPredictor -1
    AFDefocus 0
    AFIntegration Time 30 ms
    AFPoints In Focus Center (horizontal)
    WBShift AB 0
    WBShift MG 0
    Compression JPEG (old-style)
    Panasonic TZ-110

  2. #22

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    I was on Apeture Priority. The room brightness did shift a little due to light coming in from the window changing.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  3. #23

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Thanks for the effort digging up the info.

    Do note the few points that can affect the comparisons.

    1. 1stop exposure difference
    2. High ISO NR seems to be different (but I don't know what the numbers mean)
    3. Picture settings are also dissimilar :
    Kx
    ---
    Saturation Normal
    Contrast Normal
    Sharpness Med Soft

    K5
    ---
    Contrast High
    Saturation Normal
    Sharpness Hard

  4. #24

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Hi to all experts / experienced photographers,

    Does it then mean that the K-X is a much better deal, given this comparison above ?

    Kindly comment

  5. #25

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Quote Originally Posted by maverickh View Post
    Hi to all experts / experienced photographers,

    Does it then mean that the K-X is a much better deal, given this comparison above ?

    Kindly comment
    I'm certainly no expert as you well know, but here are the obvious discrepancies. (I mentioned this just 1 post above).


    1. 1stop exposure difference
    2. High ISO NR seems to be different (but I don't know what the numbers mean)
    3. Picture settings are also dissimilar :

    Kx
    ---
    Saturation Normal
    Contrast Normal
    Sharpness Med Soft

    K5
    ---
    Contrast High
    Saturation Normal
    Sharpness Hard

    My few cents.
    The 1 stop difference in exposure easily means that K5 was shooting 1 stop ISO higher (ie. 6400 would be more like ISO12400)
    Contrast on K5 is set to High, which means its pushing the original file again.
    Add to that sharpness on K5 set to HARD (boy! it sure sounds bad), which can easily brings up more noise and artifacts.


    The AF, dynamic range, interface, ISO80, auto align HDR, NR tweaks, is already well worth the money for the K5. Not to mention the previous interface and weather sealing advantages that were already on the K7.
    Last edited by pinholecam; 17th October 2010 at 09:30 AM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    First of all im no expert, but here are my thoughts. The K5 came set like that from the factory as did the KX so Pentax preset those settings. Changing them may not exactly equate things either. Different firmware. Hard contrast on a K5 may not mean the same thing as hard contrast on a KX. Although there was a difference in exposure, it was calculated by the camera based on changing light situation. So its quite likely that the total amount of light coming through the sensor was the similar, unless of course, the exposure systems are very different on the two cameras. Hence, the K5 was not disadvantaged by 1 stop worth of light if you know what I mean. There was a window and Passing clouds, different angle of the sun.

    In any case, as a KX user, I do find the high ISO of the K5 similar, just slightly better. If one buys the K5 over the KX, it's not for greater high ISO capabilities, but for other things. I for one really like the fast focussing. I'm keeping my KX with the DA40 for a compact street camera until the EVIL arrives.

    I know my test is not perfect, but I think it's a reasonable. No doubt, there will be many, many high ISO tests over the coming weeks from professional reviewers and I'm sure there will be comparisons with KX, K7, Nikon, Canon etc. Let's see how they turn out. Frankly, I would be highly surprised if the conclusions are any different.
    Last edited by tsammyc; 17th October 2010 at 10:05 AM.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  7. #27

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    something you might want to take note about - noise usually occurs in shadow areas of photos.

    with differences in exposure, you should keep in mind that this could result in an increased amount of darker areas in the picture with less exposure, i.e. the k5 image here.

    to do a proper test, you need to ensure that camera is set to manual, and dial in the same settings.

    it is after all, an image quality test you are running here, not comparison of metering.

  8. #28

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    something you might want to take note about - noise usually occurs in shadow areas of photos.

    with differences in exposure, you should keep in mind that this could result in an increased amount of darker areas in the picture with less exposure, i.e. the k5 image here.

    to do a proper test, you need to ensure that camera is set to manual, and dial in the same settings.

    it is after all, an image quality test you are running here, not comparison of metering.
    Totally agreed

    It's like when you compare optical quality of two lenses, you'd better use MF or whatever method to make the focusing right first. You can't simply rely on camera's AF to do the job for you

  9. #29

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    What am I, but a newbie, not agreeing with the gurus, but here is my point. The light in my room was changing, so if I use the same F stop and shutter speed, different amounts of light hit the sensor, so you have the same problem. What I really need to do is to redo it at night where the only source of light is the florescent light. Perhaps then, both K5 and KX will also calculate the same shutter speed.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  10. #30

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Quote Originally Posted by fengwei View Post
    Totally agreed

    It's like when you compare optical quality of two lenses, you'd better use MF or whatever method to make the focusing right first. You can't simply rely on camera's AF to do the job for you
    But what if on the KX you have no manual focussing aids and are dependent on your judgement of sharpness and quality of your eyesight. Pehaps it might be better to pick spot AF on a high contrast area of the subject and do contrast detect AF. That seems to work better for me in doing macro with the KX
    Panasonic TZ-110

  11. #31

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    If no other aid available, LiveView is always there to guide you

  12. #32

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Quote Originally Posted by tsammyc View Post
    First of all im no expert, but here are my thoughts. The K5 came set like that from the factory as did the KX so Pentax preset those settings. Changing them may not exactly equate things either. Different firmware. Hard contrast on a K5 may not mean the same thing as hard contrast on a KX. Although there was a difference in exposure, it was calculated by the camera based on changing light situation. So its quite likely that the total amount of light coming through the sensor was the similar, unless of course, the exposure systems are very different on the two cameras. Hence, the K5 was not disadvantaged by 1 stop worth of light if you know what I mean. There was a window and Passing clouds, different angle of the sun.

    In any case, as a KX user, I do find the high ISO of the K5 similar, just slightly better. If one buys the K5 over the KX, it's not for greater high ISO capabilities, but for other things. I for one really like the fast focussing. I'm keeping my KX with the DA40 for a compact street camera until the EVIL arrives.

    I know my test is not perfect, but I think it's a reasonable. No doubt, there will be many, many high ISO tests over the coming weeks from professional reviewers and I'm sure there will be comparisons with KX, K7, Nikon, Canon etc. Let's see how they turn out. Frankly, I would be highly surprised if the conclusions are any different.
    Thank you for the default testing. It still has great value for me.
    I got something out of your test as I'm interested in default metering of a system (since I'm already impressed with K-5 K-x ISO). The K-5 metering makes the colors look very nice and natural too. At least don't have to keep adjusting the compensation dial.
    Last edited by wksoh; 17th October 2010 at 12:46 PM.

  13. #33

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Quote Originally Posted by tsammyc View Post
    First of all im no expert, but here are my thoughts. The K5 came set like that from the factory as did the KX so Pentax preset those settings. Changing them may not exactly equate things either. Different firmware. Hard contrast on a K5 may not mean the same thing as hard contrast on a KX. Although there was a difference in exposure, it was calculated by the camera based on changing light situation. So its quite likely that the total amount of light coming through the sensor was the similar, unless of course, the exposure systems are very different on the two cameras. Hence, the K5 was not disadvantaged by 1 stop worth of light if you know what I mean. There was a window and Passing clouds, different angle of the sun.

    In any case, as a KX user, I do find the high ISO of the K5 similar, just slightly better. If one buys the K5 over the KX, it's not for greater high ISO capabilities, but for other things. I for one really like the fast focussing. I'm keeping my KX with the DA40 for a compact street camera until the EVIL arrives.

    I know my test is not perfect, but I think it's a reasonable. No doubt, there will be many, many high ISO tests over the coming weeks from professional reviewers and I'm sure there will be comparisons with KX, K7, Nikon, Canon etc. Let's see how they turn out. Frankly, I would be highly surprised if the conclusions are any different.
    Quote Originally Posted by wksoh View Post
    Thank you for the default testing. It still has great value for me.
    I got something out of your test as I'm interested in default metering of a system (since I'm already impressed with K-5 K-x ISO). The K-5 metering makes the colors look very nice and natural too. At least don't have to keep adjusting the compensation dial.
    Apologies in advance, but this is exactly the thing I was worried about. Ppl drawing conclusions ahead of more controlled tests and/or taking the results at face value.

    The settings may or may not be Pentax default. When I picked up my camera on Friday, ISO was at 800 when I turned it on. Default? I don't think so. There was another item that was not set to a logical value, but I can't remember what it was already. The values on the camera out of box can be anything. If the operator or QC checker picked up the unit for tests/inspection and did not set it back, thats what we get out of box. Remember sometime back on the Iphone, an operator from China had accidentally taken her photo on the iphone she was assembling. It went out, and she became and instant 'celebrity' (default setting picture in the iphone of a Chinese lady ; Not..... )

    I'm not saying Kx cannot be better than Kr or K5, but we need to shift through this carefully to avoid misunderstanding and worse misuse of the information provided.

    tsammyc, if you are willing. You are one of the few ppl with both a Kx and K5. Appreciate it if you did more controlled tests with the settings fixed to be similar and do the shots again. At least we will then have a better idea. Thanks
    Last edited by pinholecam; 17th October 2010 at 02:30 PM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Unfortunately busy next week or so. In fact, doing office work now on a Sunday afternoon. However, if you want to borrow the KX for tests, happy to lend the KX to you. Contact me via PM.
    Panasonic TZ-110

  15. #35

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Quote Originally Posted by tsammyc View Post
    What am I, but a newbie, not agreeing with the gurus, but here is my point. The light in my room was changing, so if I use the same F stop and shutter speed, different amounts of light hit the sensor, so you have the same problem. What I really need to do is to redo it at night where the only source of light is the florescent light. Perhaps then, both K5 and KX will also calculate the same shutter speed.
    not necessarily.

    btw, for fluorescent lighting, make sure you have a long enough exposure, else there will be exposure difference as well.

  16. #36

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    Quote Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
    Apologies in advance, but this is exactly the thing I was worried about. Ppl drawing conclusions ahead of more controlled tests and/or taking the results at face value.

    The settings may or may not be Pentax default. When I picked up my camera on Friday, ISO was at 800 when I turned it on. Default? I don't think so. There was another item that was not set to a logical value, but I can't remember what it was already. The values on the camera out of box can be anything. If the operator or QC checker picked up the unit for tests/inspection and did not set it back, thats what we get out of box. Remember sometime back on the Iphone, an operator from China had accidentally taken her photo on the iphone she was assembling. It went out, and she became and instant 'celebrity' (default setting picture in the iphone of a Chinese lady ; Not..... )

    I'm not saying Kx cannot be better than Kr or K5, but we need to shift through this carefully to avoid misunderstanding and worse misuse of the information provided.

    tsammyc, if you are willing. You are one of the few ppl with both a Kx and K5. Appreciate it if you did more controlled tests with the settings fixed to be similar and do the shots again. At least we will then have a better idea. Thanks
    Wow.. Pinhole, thanks for the headsup. I had jumped to the conclusion and in my head had written the K-X off. I has assumed camera to be default out of the box. Thank you....

  17. #37

    Default Re: K5 vs KX Pt II

    BTW I managed to get the opportunity to handle a white Pentax K-x at Alan photo funan last friday. I'm amazed by it's speed and simplicity.
    The shutter is not as loud as it was made out to be in many forums - in fact I find it very smooth. Also the FPS is very fast.

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