View Poll Results: who thinks ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

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  • yes

    9 15.52%
  • no

    33 56.90%
  • dont really care

    16 27.59%
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Thread: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

  1. #41

    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    I can't help but feel maybe APS deliberately wanted the team to be late for the finals.
    Don't ask me why but I just find it is very VERY unusual for a Team Coach to make what is considered a school boy's mistake, other than he meant to do it.
    Even if APS is blur and forgot to leave on time, don't tell me all the swimmers and the other staffs are also blur? All never check the time?
    Could there be more than meets the eye to this matter, something that we do not know?
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  2. #42
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yutaka Go View Post
    I think the main problem is that all the SG Sports Association are run by losers
    huh? ...SingaporeSailing is run by losers ?
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
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  3. #43

    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Another headache for Dr Vivian possibly.

    maybe depending how highly connected the persons are...will just be another issue not recorded in official history or simply positively re-worded.
    Last edited by Reportage; 13th October 2010 at 05:39 PM.
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  4. #44
    Member kwttan's Avatar
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by reportage View Post
    another headache for dr vivian possibly.

    Maybe depending how highly connected the persons are...will just be another issue not recorded in official history or simply positively re-worded.
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by de_stan View Post
    I can't help but feel maybe APS deliberately wanted the team to be late for the finals.
    Don't ask me why but I just find it is very VERY unusual for a Team Coach to make what is considered a school boy's mistake, other than he meant to do it.
    Even if APS is blur and forgot to leave on time, don't tell me all the swimmers and the other staffs are also blur? All never check the time?
    Could there be more than meets the eye to this matter, something that we do not know?
    7 oct was day reported people got sick from pool water
    of course not mistake
    sing is super efficient
    no matter what traffic jam they would have left way before hand to get there on time if they wanted to
    sing is famous for kiasu so they won't be late by accident
    why expose your swimmers to potential disease if they really have no chance to win
    a group decision made by aps, swimmers, the management.
    aps just be fall guy absorb all the blame
    ssa back him
    swimmers don't scold him
    what if there really was disease bearing water in the pool, the swimmers went , got sick and some died. then how?
    how to explain to their parents?
    so it was a wise decision
    since 7th, got no chance.
    don't bet when you got no chance to win
    don't risk your swimmer's health or lives when the payoff is zero.

    why are we all still scolding aps and ssa mgt

    can we wake up from the dream
    Last edited by ricohflex; 13th October 2010 at 11:08 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    erm, so ur theory is APS sacrifice his own reputation to save his 4 swimmers from getting poisoned by swimming pool water?

    i think can make movie liao.

  7. #47
    Member kwttan's Avatar
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    7 oct was day reported people got sick from pool water
    of course not mistake
    sing is super efficient
    no matter what traffic jam they would have left way before hand to get there on time if they wanted to
    sing is famous for kiasu so they won't be late by accident
    why expose your swimmers to potential disease if they really have no chance to win
    a group decision made by aps, swimmers, the management.
    aps just be fall guy absorb all the blame
    ssa back him
    swimmers don't scold him
    what if there really was disease bearing water in the pool, the swimmers went , got sick and some died. then how?
    how to explain to their parents?
    so it was a wise decision
    since 7th, got no chance.
    don't bet when you got no chance to win
    don't risk your swimmer's health or lives when the payoff is zero.

    why are we all still scolding aps and ssa mgt

    can we wake up from the dream
    Was there report that other country swimmers fall sick after swimming in the contaminated pool?
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  8. #48
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by kwttan View Post
    Was there report that other country swimmers fall sick after swimming in the contaminated pool?
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spor...-1225935555457

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/ne...00/9070811.stm

  9. #49
    Member kwttan's Avatar
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Wow! Thanks for the information. What/how the hell the organizing country maintain the pool or what they use the pool for if no one is swimming?
    Wash clothes, bath in the pool, ... ???
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  10. #50

    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    7 oct was day reported people got sick from pool water
    of course not mistake
    sing is super efficient
    no matter what traffic jam they would have left way before hand to get there on time if they wanted to
    sing is famous for kiasu so they won't be late by accident
    why expose your swimmers to potential disease if they really have no chance to win
    a group decision made by aps, swimmers, the management.
    aps just be fall guy absorb all the blame
    ssa back him
    swimmers don't scold him
    what if there really was disease bearing water in the pool, the swimmers went , got sick and some died. then how?
    how to explain to their parents?
    so it was a wise decision
    since 7th, got no chance.
    don't bet when you got no chance to win
    don't risk your swimmer's health or lives when the payoff is zero.

    why are we all still scolding aps and ssa mgt

    can we wake up from the dream

    In that case, why couldn't Singapore's team just do things the relatively simple way and withdraw, citing safety concerns? There seems like there is no need to hatch such a seemingly elaborate plan that hinged on a, well, pathetic excuse- and at the expense of the reputation of Singapore's sporting heroes.

    A simple withdrawal would minimise the controversy. On the contrary, such a move might even have been applauded by the public because it is clear that SSA and, perhaps, other Singaporean sports associations prioritize the well being of their athletes regardless of the monetary and opportunity cost.

    If there are concerns over whether a withdrawal would affect bilateral ties with India, I am sure India is more concerned over its global reputation rather than to pressurise Singapore based on such a decision.
    Olympian

  11. #51
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    SSA chief is an idiot. APS screwed up already and instead of calming the situation, he adds fuel to the fire by saying that SG swimmers CMI, don't go also nevermind. What the hell?!

  12. #52
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    There are other concerns to send or not to send Team Singapore to India. One of it would be the economic ties with India. Like it or not, as a country, Singapore needs India more than India needs Singapore. It is not a simple yes or no.

    I see some with views that "hey he should take responsibility", "how come this kind of things happen" etc etc. You imagine yourself, not suppose to go to the games and with such environment, unless it is a life or death issue, you would not be asked to go and make up the numbers.

    Now imagine you are the young boys, away from home in a country with shootings. There is only one to look up to, Mr Ang. Yeah, you may say "hey, it is at the hotel or village, what is so unsafe about?". But are you there yourself? Have you when through the airport, road, security and seen all the things you hear or on TV?

    What if the security was breached at the village/hotel, Mr Ang had to protect the boys and got killed somehow just because he stayed longer until 2.45pm, then he become a hero?

    I did not know Singaporeans are saints. Maybe we should ask the bosses to start sacking and deducting pay for those who made mistakes, big or small. Then that will make justice? Maybe.

  13. #53

    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    7 oct was day reported people got sick from pool water
    of course not mistake
    sing is super efficient
    no matter what traffic jam they would have left way before hand to get there on time if they wanted to
    sing is famous for kiasu so they won't be late by accident
    why expose your swimmers to potential disease if they really have no chance to win
    a group decision made by aps, swimmers, the management.
    aps just be fall guy absorb all the blame
    ssa back him
    swimmers don't scold him
    what if there really was disease bearing water in the pool, the swimmers went , got sick and some died. then how?
    how to explain to their parents?
    so it was a wise decision
    since 7th, got no chance.
    don't bet when you got no chance to win
    don't risk your swimmer's health or lives when the payoff is zero.

    why are we all still scolding aps and ssa mgt

    can we wake up from the dream
    So you are saying that they deliberately miss the final as they have prior knowledge that the pool is contaminated? I think a spin doctor could not have done better at this version.

    Such assumption that the management is always infallible and beyond reproach is why we sometimes don't see people taking blame for their mistakes. We are not asking for sacking, but a simple admission of oversight.

    Yes, the fact was that swimmers fell sick, and that the pool might be contaminated. But to link it to the issue of Singapore's non-participation sounds like a desperate excuse cooked up with the benefit of hindsight. In fact, I would feel even more embarrassed if they somehow knew about the "contamination" and not flag it to the origanisers.

    At this moment, I am not even sure I want to start off the argument of "don't take risks or participate unless there is a chance to win."

  14. #54
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Risk management.

    The most important question to ask is: Do we have to take this risk, is this risk necessary in the first place?

    Other assessments:
    What are the risks?
    What is the payoff for taking these risks?
    What is the price to pay if the outcome is negative?

    The price is not just money. It can be and often is many human lives, the entire reputation of the organisation, world wide condemnation of your company, for individual management who ignored the risks, it is the ruin of their high flying careers...and maybe criminal prosecution for ignoring the dangers, even when repeatedly told and warned by underlings who braved management's wrath by bringing bad news.

    Can we afford to pay the price if things go wrong? Can we recover form the fallout or is it a fatal error that will finish us off forever.

    It is sometimes a judgement call.

    Sometimes you win.

    Sometimes you lose. In some cases, you lose BIGTIME.

    Examples:

    Space Shuttle Challenger disaster occurred on January 28, 1986.
    Many people knew the fault. Discovered the fault. Warned the management about the fault.
    They sacrificed their careers warning about something the management did not like to hear or know about. They knew if all went well with the space shuttle mission, they would be condemned in their careers or even laid off by NASA. Considered negative naysayers that are bad for the company.

    The management worried about having to tell the media and President Reagan about postponing the space shuttle mission to look into possible engineering faults.

    So they made a judgement call on that risk.

    They lost BIGTIME.
    Last edited by ricohflex; 16th October 2010 at 10:50 AM.

  15. #55

    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    and what happened to the Challenger contractors and management in charge? did anyone go to jail or any names named to face the public backlash?
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  16. #56
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reportage View Post
    and what happened to the Challenger contractors and management in charge? did anyone go to jail or any names named to face the public backlash?
    Read.

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/newre...eply&p=6596799


    Quote:[


    "The apparent nonchalance of NASA officials about safety was appalling."

    "NASA management was determined to press on with the launch under any circumstances. Having browbeaten its subcontractors into giving qualified approval for the launch, it decided to go ahead. NASA never even informed the seven shuttle astronauts of the engineers’ concerns"


    "Feynman had written a scathing assessment of NASA management’s procedure for risk evaluation. He ridiculed NASA’s claim that the probability of shuttle failure was 1-in-100,000, saying this number was chosen arbitrarily to make the program look safe, when the real probability of failure was 1-in-50 or 1-in -100."



    "The report, however, absolved the Reagan administration and top NASA officials of blame, claiming they were never informed of the concerns of engineers about the safety of the launch. Instead, the commission singled out for blame several mid-level NASA officials at the Marshall Space Flight Center."



    "Many members of the commission were dissatisfied with the report. It was clear that even if top NASA officials had not been directly told of the problems, they had made it abundantly clear to subordinates that they did not want to hear anything that would stop the launch."] End-Quote
    Last edited by ricohflex; 16th October 2010 at 12:51 PM.

  17. #57

    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    Risk management.

    The most important question to ask is: Do we have to take this risk, is this risk necessary in the first place?

    Other assessments:
    What are the risks?
    What is the payoff for taking these risks?
    What is the price to pay if the outcome is negative?

    The price is not just money. It can be and often is many human lives, the entire reputation of the organisation, world wide condemnation of your company, for individual management who ignored the risks, it is the ruin of their high flying careers...and maybe criminal prosecution for ignoring the dangers, even when repeatedly told and warned by underlings who braved management's wrath by bringing bad news.

    Can we afford to pay the price if things go wrong? Can we recover form the fallout or is it a fatal error that will finish us off forever.

    It is sometimes a judgement call.

    Sometimes you win.

    Sometimes you lose. In some cases, you lose BIGTIME.

    Examples:

    Space Shuttle Challenger disaster occurred on January 28, 1986.
    Many people knew the fault. Discovered the fault. Warned the management about the fault.
    They sacrificed their careers warning about something the management did not like to hear or know about. They knew if all went well with the space shuttle mission, they would be condemned in their careers or even laid off by NASA. Considered negative naysayers that are bad for the company.

    The management worried about having to tell the media and President Reagan about postponing the space shuttle mission to look into possible engineering faults.

    So they made a judgement call on that risk.

    They lost BIGTIME.
    Taking into context your point on the swimming fiasco, your debate hinges on the argument that management should pull out if they know something is wrong.

    So what is the tangible thing that team discovered was risky? Flying over to delhi? Eating the delhi food? Swimming the heats? Swimming the finals?

    Did you really advocate that they pulled out because they knew the "water was contaminated"?

  18. #58
    Moderator ed9119's Avatar
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    Default Re: ang peng siong's mistake was 'trivial'?

    After conspiracy theory, this discussion has now changed flight path towards the Space Shuttle and Nasa ?

    Results are in the polls above .... 'APS's mistake was not trivial' wins

    Thread closed....
    Last edited by ed9119; 17th October 2010 at 02:10 AM.
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