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Thread: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

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    Default 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Film cameras uses 36x24mm. So when manufacturers decided to drop film for digital, they know that FF sensors then are expensive and out of reach of most consumers. So are APS-C a product whereby it started off with just the intention to attract mass adoption to digital to recover R&D cost? If so, does it mean that when FF sensors / cameras become affordable, it will also mean the demise of APS-Cs?

    For example, if you can have an affordable FF M9, would you still want a APS-C M8? If you can have a FF NEX, would you still want an APS-C NEX? If you can have a FF DSLR, would you still want an APS-C DSLR?

    Are APS-C a product that manufacturers cleverly made use of to push for mass adoption, recover R&D, buy time for FF sensor to mature, etc and unknowingly created a new market segment. Or are APS-C a genuine attempt by manufacturer to offer something new to the market?

    Will the day come when cameras all go back to the 36x24mm format?

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    FF's are still very expensive as compared to your APS-C sensors. i do think that the creation of APS-C DSLRs are to bring DSLRs to the masses, so that more people will buy. afterall a APS-C now isnt that much more expensive than a normal compact? its a way of companies trying to lure more consumers and make more money. as for the question of whether photography will ever go back to 35mm, my take is no. not until full frames can get so cheap and affordable that we have no need for APS-Cs anymore.

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    There is a place for both Full Frames and APS-C cameras in the market.

    Even when it becomes affordable to manufacture FF sensors, that would just mean that APS-C sensors are even cheaper.

    APS-C has the advantage of more "reach" when you consider the crop factor of 1.5 or 1.6x. Have you checked out the prices of super telephoto lenses? While it's possible to use a 600mm f4 on a FF camera, it's also possible to use a 400mm f2.8 on a APS-C camera to get the same view as a 600mm on a FF camera, and it comes with f2.8.

    Different tools for different uses. There's a place for both even when it gets cheaper.

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd View Post
    There is a place for both Full Frames and APS-C cameras in the market.

    Even when it becomes affordable to manufacture FF sensors, that would just mean that APS-C sensors are even cheaper.

    APS-C has the advantage of more "reach" when you consider the crop factor of 1.5 or 1.6x. Have you checked out the prices of super telephoto lenses? While it's possible to use a 600mm f4 on a FF camera, it's also possible to use a 400mm f2.8 on a APS-C camera to get the same view as a 600mm on a FF camera, and it comes with f2.8.

    Different tools for different uses. There's a place for both even when it gets cheaper.
    Both lens are still very expensive. A better comparison might be 500 f4 on FF compared to 300 f2.8 on 1.6x?

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    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Well , maybe before that happens we will see greater adoption of APS-C format sensor in PnS first, and maybe they will introduce PnS sized sensors into our phones

    With the strong vibrant support by the various makers for the crop sensor format, I cannot see the APS-C format DSLR getting phased out anytime soon. ( much unlike the failed film APS counterpart )

    Ryan

  6. #6

    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Hi, Then P&S cameras would have APS-C sensors and the others with FF and med-format coming down one step.

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    Film cameras uses 36x24mm. So when manufacturers decided to drop film for digital, they know that FF sensors then are expensive and out of reach of most consumers. So are APS-C a product whereby it started off with just the intention to attract mass adoption to digital to recover R&D cost? If so, does it mean that when FF sensors / cameras become affordable, it will also mean the demise of APS-Cs?

    For example, if you can have an affordable FF M9, would you still want a APS-C M8? If you can have a FF NEX, would you still want an APS-C NEX? If you can have a FF DSLR, would you still want an APS-C DSLR?

    Are APS-C a product that manufacturers cleverly made use of to push for mass adoption, recover R&D, buy time for FF sensor to mature, etc and unknowingly created a new market segment. Or are APS-C a genuine attempt by manufacturer to offer something new to the market?

    Will the day come when cameras all go back to the 36x24mm format?
    It depends.... for the nature and sports shooters, they may still want to have APS-C for the longer reach. Just imagine having a 450mm reach with just a 300mm lens. Why not?

    The only issue is on the wider side which would make user want to have FF better.
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    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd View Post
    There is a place for both Full Frames and APS-C cameras in the market.

    Even when it becomes affordable to manufacture FF sensors, that would just mean that APS-C sensors are even cheaper.

    APS-C has the advantage of more "reach" when you consider the crop factor of 1.5 or 1.6x. Have you checked out the prices of super telephoto lenses? While it's possible to use a 600mm f4 on a FF camera, it's also possible to use a 400mm f2.8 on a APS-C camera to get the same view as a 600mm on a FF camera, and it comes with f2.8.

    Different tools for different uses. There's a place for both even when it gets cheaper.
    The Bird Shooters will prefer to be on crop for sure... it give them more reach... and maybe sports too.....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    It depends.... for the nature and sports shooters, they may still want to have APS-C for the longer reach. Just imagine having a 450mm reach with just a 300mm lens. Why not?

    The only issue is on the wider side which would make user want to have FF better.
    I see FF & Crop co-existing....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    I think it's quite unlikely that aps-c sensors will be wiped out of the market entirely. Even when there are DSLRs people are still buying PnSs. You may argue that it's because PnSs are cheaper than DSLRs, and because it's smaller. Then it's the same reason with aps-c and ff sensors. Digital technology has created those 2 different sensors for different consumer markets that are likely to stay on

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    15 years from now........... I will dig up this very thread and compare history notes LOL !!!

    just 7-8 years ago i remember some guy in CS commenting that DSLR body will NEVER go below $1000

    Technology and economies of scale will trickle down..........

    Wanna bet ? APS-C sized sensors will find themselves being deployed in higher end PnS cameras (non-interchangeable lens) within 15 years ?
    Last edited by ed9119; 5th October 2010 at 12:05 AM.
    shaddap and just shoot .... up close
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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    15 years from now........... I will dig up this very thread and compare history notes LOL !!!

    just 7-8 years ago i remember some guy in CS commenting that DSLR body will NEVER go below $1000

    Technology and economies of scale will trickle down..........

    Wanna bet ? APS-C sized sensors will find themselves being deployed in higher end PnS cameras (non-interchangeable lens) within 15 years ?
    Maybe below 10 yrs....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  13. #13

    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Did you just invent that history? FYI, APS-C has it's origins in film:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Photo_System

    It's the film format that gave birth to the DSLR APS-C format, as it allowed for a well-understood size to be utilized to manufacture DSLR cameras in an affordable way and in a smaller size format (you can't fit a FF sensor into a NEX, and the FF lenses would be huge).
    Alpha

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    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    Did you just invent that history? FYI, APS-C has it's origins in film:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Photo_System

    It's the film format that gave birth to the DSLR APS-C format, as it allowed for a well-understood size to be utilized to manufacture DSLR cameras in an affordable way and in a smaller size format (you can't fit a FF sensor into a NEX, and the FF lenses would be huge).
    One of the difference was that film APS was more expensive to purchase and process than the 135mm format, and killed itself. APS-C/H on the other hand proved a cheaper alternative to FF.

  15. #15

    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    Wanna bet ? APS-C sized sensors will find themselves being deployed in higher end PnS cameras (non-interchangeable lens) within 15 years ?
    No need to wait 15 years.. the Leica X1 and the upcoming Fujifilm X100 are higher end PnS cameras with APS-C sized sensors.

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by ed9119 View Post
    15 years from now........... I will dig up this very thread and compare history notes LOL !!!

    just 7-8 years ago i remember some guy in CS commenting that DSLR body will NEVER go below $1000

    Technology and economies of scale will trickle down..........

    Wanna bet ? APS-C sized sensors will find themselves being deployed in higher end PnS cameras (non-interchangeable lens) within 15 years ?
    Within the next 3 years. In 15 years, you should be able to buy digital sensor modules and upgrade your camera DIY.
    Home is where the heart is.

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by ManWearPants View Post
    Film cameras uses 36x24mm. So when manufacturers decided to drop film for digital, they know that FF sensors then are expensive and out of reach of most consumers. So are APS-C a product whereby it started off with just the intention to attract mass adoption to digital to recover R&D cost? If so, does it mean that when FF sensors / cameras become affordable, it will also mean the demise of APS-Cs?

    For example, if you can have an affordable FF M9, would you still want a APS-C M8? If you can have a FF NEX, would you still want an APS-C NEX? If you can have a FF DSLR, would you still want an APS-C DSLR?

    Are APS-C a product that manufacturers cleverly made use of to push for mass adoption, recover R&D, buy time for FF sensor to mature, etc and unknowingly created a new market segment. Or are APS-C a genuine attempt by manufacturer to offer something new to the market?

    Will the day come when cameras all go back to the 36x24mm format?
    In the days of the 135mm format, we had full frame and half frame cameras. So, today's FF and APS-C is nothing new. What I am looking forward to, hope it happens fast, is for MF digital system to get to current FF DSLR price.
    Home is where the heart is.

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    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Lee View Post
    Within the next 3 years. In 15 years, you should be able to buy digital sensor modules and upgrade your camera DIY.
    dat will be cool

  19. #19
    Senior Member giantcanopy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Lee View Post
    Within the next 3 years. In 15 years, you should be able to buy digital sensor modules and upgrade your camera DIY.
    Red already introduced it. And just when alot of people thought modular system would drive overall cost down, well. .

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    Default Re: 36 x 24mm and APS-C

    Quote Originally Posted by giantcanopy View Post
    Red already introduced it. And just when alot of people thought modular system would drive overall cost down, well. .
    My idea is slightly different. For example, technology would have reached a state where I could easily buy a 5D2 sensor module and replace it on my 5D, relatively speaking, just like replacing CF card.
    Home is where the heart is.

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