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Thread: Spyder calibration

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Luminance (default, native unchecked, native checked):
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    RGB Levels (default, native unchecked, native checked):
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Colour Temperature (default, native unchecked, native checked):


    Conclusions:
    Assuming the spyder hardware is not spoilt, it seems that my laptop's default colour temperature is around 5000K. Forcing it to 6500K throws the gamma and luminance off. I can no longer see the highlights and shadows in http://www.imaging-resource.com/ARTS.../CALIBRATE.HTM and my screen looks super dark.

    On the other hand, forcing spyder to calibrate to the laptop monitor's native white point (I assume that's what the "Native LCD" option is for) throws the RGB levels and colour temperature (4000K vs 5000K) off. I can see the highlights and shadows on the imaging resource page, but there's that irritating yellow/brown cast (maybe caused by the wacked up RGB levels).

    So... what should I do now? Force spyder to calibrate at native white point and live with the colour cast or force my monitor to display at 6500K and lose highlight/shadow details? Or is there any other solution to this issue, short of purchasing the pro upgrade?
    Last edited by arctos; 8th October 2010 at 09:50 PM.
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
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  4. #24

    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    I don't fully understand what you are trying to say... but from the charts above, the middle one (Native Unchecked?) should be the one to use. If I read you correctly, you are saying that if you use the middle one (Native Unchecked), then your gamma and luminance will be thrown way off... so that is not workable.

    The one on the right will be too warm for me to use practically. A colour temperature around 4000K is too much. You did not present the gamma charts for the 3, so I don't know what would be the gamma reading, though the luminance chart above looks ok (but that is relative luminace across greys).

    Maybe you should try this...

    Without any color profile loaded, open a pure white page... which is pretty easy to achieve with photoshop. Put your Spyder on the white area. Then on the HCFR, choose 'Continuous Reading'... which is the green arrow button in HCFR. The Spyder will read continuously... so it should be reading the white page. Adjust your brightness level with your monitor brightness button, until the HCFR reads the luminance is just above 120 cd/m^2 (while reading white). Then calibrate again with that brightness, using your 'middle' setting? I think it's Native Unchecked? If the screen is not way too bright, you will tend to get better gamma... which is why I suggest setting the brightness before calibration.

    Then after you calibrate, check the white luminace using the same method again, except this time, with the new colour profile loaded. It should remain at around 120 cd/m^2. Too drastic a change (+/- 20) will cause your screen to look too bright or dark. But I know some people think that 120 cd/m^2 is too dark.. in which case, it's really fine to target a brighter output as long as you can still see the details. Our eyes and hence comfort level are all a little different.
    Last edited by nottipiglet; 9th October 2010 at 11:44 AM.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Actually I did have chart for gamma. It was the first of the consecutive 4 posts. Anyways I tried as per your suggestion - my monitor only reached ~110 cd/m^2 max brightness, and after calibration (native unchecked), it dropped to ~50 cd/m^2 (with average gamma ~2.3).

    Thanks for the help thus far though.
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by arctos View Post
    Actually I did have chart for gamma. It was the first of the consecutive 4 posts. Anyways I tried as per your suggestion - my monitor only reached ~110 cd/m^2 max brightness, and after calibration (native unchecked), it dropped to ~50 cd/m^2 (with average gamma ~2.3).

    Thanks for the help thus far though.
    I'm sorry... I missed the charts because it was in the 1st page.

    It looks like if you choose 'native unchecked', Spyder tries to get you Gamma 2.2 at 6500K, but you got gamma that's higher than 2.2, the colour temperature is OK, but the luminace drops to an unworkable 50 cd/m^2. If you check Native, I think the Spyder2Express software will try to make the colour temperature more consistent at the monitor's native temperature and try to get Gamma 2.2, but the temperature drops to around 4000K for darker greys and everything looks yellowish... which is also not workable.

    If I were you, I will leave the monitor uncalibrated. This way, you get a fairly consistent colour temperature at around 5000K (better than the 4000K you will get from calibrating), a fairly consistent gamma of about 1.8, a reasonable good relative luminace, and a very comfortable white luminance of 110 cd/m^2. It appears that the results are fairly consistent with a monitor calibrated to 5000K, Gamma 1.8. Some people calibrate their monitors to 5000K anyway, so it is not something out of the ordinary.

    From my readings... I think the following should be correct:

    In a colour managed environment like Photoshop, I think there is a way to tell it that your monitor is 'calibrated' to Gamma 1.8 (I will check this in a moment)... and all will be well if you look at your pictures through Photoshop. In an non-colour managed environment, like your desktop or other image viewers, your pictures will look somewhat brighter/lighter when compared to some other monitors calibrated to Gamma 2.2. However, I think this is better than calibrating the monitor using 'Native Unchecked' and get a Gamma above 2.2. Having Gamma way above 2.2 will make your images look darker when compared to a monitor calibrated to Gamma 2.2. Calibrating it with Native checked, and getting a very very warm temperature of 4000K is also not good.

    So... I think your monitor is best left uncalibrated.
    Last edited by nottipiglet; 10th October 2010 at 12:13 AM.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by arctos View Post
    Actually I did have chart for gamma. It was the first of the consecutive 4 posts. Anyways I tried as per your suggestion - my monitor only reached ~110 cd/m^2 max brightness, and after calibration (native unchecked), it dropped to ~50 cd/m^2 (with average gamma ~2.3).

    Thanks for the help thus far though.
    You are using Spyer express, which is not suitable for LED backlit screens (most laptops). I think you need the pro version to get it done right.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You are using Spyer express, which is not suitable for LED backlit screens (most laptops). I think you need the pro version to get it done right.
    That's not entirely right. The Spyder2 cannot work on LED backlit screen. All versions of Spyder2, including the pro version will not work well. You will need the Spyder3.

    The difference between the Spyder2Express and the Spyder2Pro is simply the software. If you can get hold of a Spyder2Pro software, then your Express Colorimeter can be used exactly as the Pro version with no limitations.... except maybe legal limitations. However, since it is the same colorimeter, it cannot work on LED backlit screens due to the colorimeter limitation, which has nothing to do with the software.

    If indeed the TS has an LED backit screen, then the Spyder2 will not work... which may explain the results he is getting (lumunance too low after calibration). In which case, the solution would be to get the Spyder3 (and I suggest at least the Pro version).
    Last edited by nottipiglet; 10th October 2010 at 11:33 AM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    I tried to find out if you can tell Photoshop that your screen is calibrated to Gamma 1.8. From what I understand after much experiment and reading, I think Photoshop takes this data from the monitor profile, which is done automatically. So, I don't know what information your monitor profile is giving to Photoshop, but that's how it's done.

    I think if you have a calibrated profile, Photoshop will take the information from there... However, this is not workable for you since the Spyder2Express cannot calibrate to Gamma 1.8 and 5000K.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Okay, I guess that means I have no choice but to "upgrade" then, or else find a non-LED backlit external monitor to work with (is there a difference in the way LCD is backlit?)

    If I have to get the Spyder3Pro, how much would it cost?
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by arctos View Post
    Okay, I guess that means I have no choice but to "upgrade" then, or else find a non-LED backlit external monitor to work with (is there a difference in the way LCD is backlit?)

    If I have to get the Spyder3Pro, how much would it cost?
    Spyder3Pro costs $255 at Cathay.

    You mean you knew all along that your monitor was LED backlit? I thought we already shared with you much earlier that Spyder2 will not work for LED backlit monitor?
    Last edited by nottipiglet; 11th October 2010 at 12:54 AM.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    LCD screens use cold cathode fluorescent lighting (CCFL)? This is much thicker... so not so nice for laptops.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by nottipiglet View Post
    Another thing... if your screen is an LED screen (like on some laptops), Spyder2 may not work.
    Quote Originally Posted by nottipiglet View Post
    Nothing to do with the glossiness. Spyder2 does not calibrate LED displays. It says so on the specs.

    You need the Spyder3... which is the main reason why I upgraded to the Spyder3.
    Quote Originally Posted by nottipiglet View Post
    You mean you knew all along that your monitor was LED backlit? I thought we already shared with you much earlier that Spyder2 will not work for LED backlit monitor?
    Actually I'm not sure which type my monitor is, except that it is glossy. The product (laptop) brochure states TFT LCD, which doesn't give any indication of LED backlit or not. Plus I thought we were talking about LED displays, not LED backlit displays (e.g my newer work laptop product brochure states LED display). So it seems like there's 3 different classes as opposed to the previous 2: "LCD vs LED backlit LCD vs LED" instead of "LCD vs LED". At any rate the glossy screen alone means that I can't work with spyder2 as seen from the datacolor knowledgebase:
    For laptops with very narrow viewing angles, LCDs with gloss finishes, and new LCD technologies such as LED backlight and Wide Gamut displays, we recommend Spyder3-based products, such as Spyder3Pro.
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
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  14. #34
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by arctos View Post
    Actually I'm not sure which type my monitor is, except that it is glossy. The product (laptop) brochure states TFT LCD, which doesn't give any indication of LED backlit or not. Plus I thought we were talking about LED displays, not LED backlit displays (e.g my newer work laptop product brochure states LED display). So it seems like there's 3 different classes as opposed to the previous 2: "LCD vs LED backlit LCD vs LED" instead of "LCD vs LED". At any rate the glossy screen alone means that I can't work with spyder2 as seen from the datacolor knowledgebase:


    The "real" LED screen is called OLED (read more here). LED backlit is just that, that the screen is lit from the back using LED. The actual pixels of RGB are still controlled by LCD. Most laptops are now using LED as backlight.

    Anyway here is some info on backlight technologies.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 11th October 2010 at 11:39 AM.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Spyder calibration

    Thanks for the links daredevil. And thanks to all for the help thus far, especially nottipiglet.

    Locking thread as question answered.
    Just photograph what you think is beautiful - that is all that matters. ~ Wing Shya ~
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