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Thread: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    The investigation committee would have to find out if "it could have been handled better"....

    If it is the best case scenario.. then good for the pilot.. if it is due to their mis-judgement that damaged the bird............................ different story liao..

  2. #42

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    With the tail section broken off, I guess there is not way RSAF can fix it back without compromising structural integrity ? If the manufacturer cannot fix it back too, this bird will have to be cannibalised for spares ?

  3. #43

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    The investigation committee would have to find out if "it could have been handled better"....

    If it is the best case scenario.. then good for the pilot.. if it is due to their mis-judgement that damaged the bird............................ different story liao..
    If u drive ur car and the engine stalled without reason. U save urself and passenger but damaged the car beyond repair, is it ur fault?

  4. #44
    Member kwttan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Before final investigation report came out, suggest not to jump to any conclusion.
    The pilot(s) has done marvelous job by landing the helicopter in one piece and avoid hitting into any buildings/objects, thus prevent further damages, injuries or lost of life.

    I guess it is not easy job to fly a helicopter, thus should avoid irresponsible comment unless the commenter can prove he/she is a top gun.
    Last edited by kwttan; 1st October 2010 at 11:18 PM.
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  5. #45

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    fooo yo.. take that road everyday leh.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    The pilots did a fantastic job in being able to land the heli. Flying a helicopter is no easy task. Trying to land a malfunctioned one is even worse. If they had not been properly trained, they would probably have crashed into some populated area and burst into flames.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by KiichiroToyoda View Post
    If u drive ur car and the engine stalled without reason. U save urself and passenger but damaged the car beyond repair, is it ur fault?
    Like I said, it depends on the investigation on whether there could be a "better way of handling". Perhaps what the pilot did is best case scenario, I never deny that possibility. But it maybe something else too..

    If you drive a car and the brake malfunctioned, one side wall and one side grassland/mud, if you're skillful enough to steer it into some grassland or mud, you could save everyone and the car.

    If you kalang kabo and maneuver the car to the wall side and let the friction stop the car, you save everyone but lost the car. In this case, is it your fault for making worse than better judgement?

    If you refer to 9V's post, the pilots demonstrated the "possibility" of landing the helicopter w/o damage. of coz, it's different type of bird, and there could be differences.

    Again, I want to emphasis that w/o further information, we're in no position to comment on whether the pilot "could have done better". Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't.

    he didn't land properly, that's a fact. But maybe it is not possible to land properly given that situation, so in that case he still "did a good job". Until investigations are completed, it's still too early to conclude that it "Is a good job", that's what I wanna say.
    Last edited by Limsgp; 2nd October 2010 at 07:42 PM.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    Like I said, it depends on the investigation on whether there could be a "better way of handling". Perhaps what the pilot did is best case scenario, I never deny that possibility. But it maybe something else too..

    If you drive a car and the brake malfunctioned, one side wall and one side grassland/mud, if you're skillful enough to steer it into some grassland or mud, you could save everyone and the car.

    If you kalang kabo and maneuver the car to the wall side and let the friction stop the car, you save everyone but lost the car. In this case, is it your fault for making worse than better judgement?

    If you refer to 9V's post, the pilots demonstrated the "possibility" of landing the helicopter w/o damage. of coz, it's different type of bird, and there could be differences.

    Again, I want to emphasis that w/o further information, we're in no position to comment on whether the pilot "could have done better". Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't.

    he didn't land properly, that's a fact. But maybe it is not possible to land properly given that situation, so in that case he still "did a good job". Until investigations are completed, it's still too early to conclude that it "Is a good job", that's what I wanna say.
    Being an ex-aviation(rotary wing), I can tell u that's is a very good landing, it's not perfect but in that situation, that can be said to be the best. Yes, even in my earlier post I also mentioned that a proper landing would be "everything a ok" but given the situation, saving his own and the co-pilot.

    Collective lever, Cyclic Stick, Guages to watch for rotor RPM, guages to see attittude, Guages to see heli pitch and yaw(assuming these are still available), Paddles for counter-torque, watching out for a clear field, that is just some of the stuff the pilot need to be consistenly aware of till he touch down in a few seconds. Training are carried out for auto rotation but there's no way to gurantee a perfect landing every time.

    in short, even without the findings(which u'll not be able to have as it is a military issue), u can't really fault the pilot for that landing incident. u can mark my words. As to if the pilot caused a power failure, then that's a separate issue, but twin engine failure is very rare.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by KiichiroToyoda View Post
    Training are carried out for auto rotation but there's no way to gurantee a perfect landing every time.

    in short, even without the findings(which u'll not be able to have as it is a military issue), u can't really fault the pilot for that landing incident. u can mark my words. As to if the pilot caused a power failure, then that's a separate issue, but twin engine failure is very rare.
    Well, in 9V's example, the bird seems to land w/o damaged on *every* landing. Maybe the last one that actually crashed the bird wasn't in the video, no one can tell.. but it's not impossible to get *many* good landings as what is shown.

    Of coz, one can say that the Ah-64 is different.. and since it's military issue, I will not conclude that whether or not it is a "good job" by the pilot.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    Well, in 9V's example, the bird seems to land w/o damaged on *every* landing. Maybe the last one that actually crashed the bird wasn't in the video, no one can tell.. but it's not impossible to get *many* good landings as what is shown.

    Of coz, one can say that the Ah-64 is different.. and since it's military issue, I will not conclude that whether or not it is a "good job" by the pilot.
    Clean weather condition? Air density, cross wind, etc these are also factors in acheiving a good landing.
    Is the video of Autorotation film on actual e-cases? or training? There are hard landing where u might not see and might not tell the diff.

    Won't say AH64 is different, all the principle applies to it.

    I can understand from a "layman's" POV(no offend) wanting a perfect landing from a e-situation

    Try flying a remote control helicopter and do a 100% good landing from a auto rotation.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by KiichiroToyoda View Post
    Clean weather condition? Air density, cross wind, etc these are also factors in acheiving a good landing.
    Is the video of Autorotation film on actual e-cases? or training? There are hard landing where u might not see and might not tell the diff.

    Won't say AH64 is different, all the principle applies to it.

    I can understand from a "layman's" POV(no offend) wanting a perfect landing from a e-situation

    Try flying a remote control helicopter and do a 100% good landing from a auto rotation.
    I guess you have completely missed my point. Whether or not it is layman's POV is not important at all.

    I'm in no position to comment on whether it is considered "a good job" or not, because I'm not trained in that field.

    Only the experts can assess and comment on that.

    As an analogy, Any driver can keep a car in it's lane. Ask any non-driver and they will not be able to do it (i.e. difficult). So, is it a terrific job by a car driver to keep a car in it's lane just bcoz it is something very difficult for a layman(non-driver)? needless to say, flying a helicopter is something very difficult for a layman, like driving is to a non-driver, it doesn't mean that every driver should be awarded a medal for getting from Pt A to Pt B w/o causing any accidents along the way, right?

    Flying a helicopter is difficult, of coz, and I believe the pilot already received their due recognition when they put on their wings. And probably how to land a malfunctioned bird is part of their training.

    What I'm saying is I will not conclude whether it is "a good job" for damaging the bird unless the conclusions from the expert's finding after detailed analysis say so.

    I feel that it is too early to conclude that it is a good job just just because it landed on empty ground and the pilots are safe, w/o consideration for the damage that may or may not have been prevented.

  12. #52
    Senior Member xtemujin's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    The Apache helicopter that broke was showcased during the Singapore Airshow 2010 as a static display.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by xtemujin View Post
    The Apache helicopter that broke was showcased during the Singapore Airshow 2010 as a static display.
    Interesting...
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Errrrr, a bit OT here. Crash landing a Helicopter is one thing but if eg a F16 damage it's sole engine in mid-flight due to eg bird strike during landing and crash a HDB block. I shudder to think.

    It's well known that our F16 Squadrons are based at Tengah AB and those who lived in Jurong West HDB estate can view them approaching to land overhead across these HDB flats.

    The area spanning from Jurong Point to the Jurong West stadium used to be an airfield guidance area of sorts. So it's been the aircraft point of landing years before.

    I wondered why Gahmen did what they did and built the new Jurong West Estate there .

  15. #55

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Singapore is just wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to small lah.

    where else do you expect the air bases to be built? Paya Lebar airbase is located near the center of Singapore island hosting the C-130s.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    I guess you have completely missed my point. Whether or not it is layman's POV is not important at all.

    I'm in no position to comment on whether it is considered "a good job" or not, because I'm not trained in that field.

    Only the experts can assess and comment on that.

    As an analogy, Any driver can keep a car in it's lane. Ask any non-driver and they will not be able to do it (i.e. difficult). So, is it a terrific job by a car driver to keep a car in it's lane just bcoz it is something very difficult for a layman(non-driver)? needless to say, flying a helicopter is something very difficult for a layman, like driving is to a non-driver, it doesn't mean that every driver should be awarded a medal for getting from Pt A to Pt B w/o causing any accidents along the way, right?

    Flying a helicopter is difficult, of coz, and I believe the pilot already received their due recognition when they put on their wings. And probably how to land a malfunctioned bird is part of their training.

    What I'm saying is I will not conclude whether it is "a good job" for damaging the bird unless the conclusions from the expert's finding after detailed analysis say so.

    I feel that it is too early to conclude that it is a good job just just because it landed on empty ground and the pilots are safe, w/o consideration for the damage that may or may not have been prevented.

    no casualty, no damage to civilian property, in my opinion is a good job.

    wat more you want to expect sia?

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmore View Post
    Singapore is just wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to small lah.

    where else do you expect the air bases to be built? Paya Lebar airbase is located near the center of Singapore island hosting the C-130s.
    I don't expect them be built anywhere, just wondering........ the runway now used for Airshow can be purpose built, we still have Sudong island runway, but again I never ask for it to be built elsewhere.

    Just that .........what if our top guns in a F16 where to have engine trouble..........you know. No idea take-off and landing flight path at PLAB but Tengah AB landing path is directly above HDB flats.

    Statistics says probability is low, calculated risk. But such thing can happen, lucky it's a helicopter.
    Last edited by greenieadi; 4th October 2010 at 06:02 PM.

  18. #58
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by greenieadi View Post
    Errrrr, a bit OT here. Crash landing a Helicopter is one thing but if eg a F16 damage it's sole engine in mid-flight due to eg bird strike during landing and crash a HDB block. I shudder to think.

    It's well known that our F16 Squadrons are based at Tengah AB and those who lived in Jurong West HDB estate can view them approaching to land overhead across these HDB flats.

    The area spanning from Jurong Point to the Jurong West stadium used to be an airfield guidance area of sorts. So it's been the aircraft point of landing years before.

    I wondered why Gahmen did what they did and built the new Jurong West Estate there .
    Land is scarce in SG... then wat? Build our HDB underground?

    Duh... there are not much choices left actually.
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    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    Land is scarce in SG... then wat? Build our HDB underground?

    Duh... there are not much choices left actually.
    I think in straits times life sometimes back there was a write up about how the life underground would be like, without sunlight, wind, etc.

    It should be interesting.
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  20. #60

    Default Re: Apache helicopter crash landed in Woodlands

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxshade View Post
    I think in straits times life sometimes back there was a write up about how the life underground would be like, without sunlight, wind, etc.

    It should be interesting.
    It won't be interesting. It will be pathetic.

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