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Thread: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

  1. #41
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    That's how old men are found dead in Fuji Hotel in Geylang after drinking such stuff and over-straining themselves. The PRC female gets a fright when the old guy dies halfway in the action.
    i lawled at this

  2. #42
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricohflex View Post
    That's how old men are found dead in Fuji Hotel in Geylang after drinking such stuff and over-straining themselves. The PRC female gets a fright when the old guy dies halfway in the action.
    And the girls didn't collect the money first.

  3. #43
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    not true. what we wanna know is how it ticks. if tcm works, why? is there a system that we all can put to the test and get repeated results? can it be documented? could it be analysed?

    no one claimed that western medicine is the only science here. i think the plus point is that western medication is easily replicable and u dun have to be a genius to use them. pandadol for headaches, eyedrops for sore eyes. TCM requires slightly more, such as understanding of the meridians and how to give wad type of medication based on pulse. what we dunno is what we fear. someone shld do an in depth chemical analysis and mass test on lab rats and get some results
    The problem is, it does not work the same for everyone. It's not a broad based medication method or technique like the western style where you can just prescribe anti-biotics for those with this certain ailment.

    It will only work for certain individuals with the ailment as their body is in that certain balance point. With the same ailment in a different balance point, the doctor may have to "tune" the body before he/she can continue with the treatment.
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  4. #44
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    The problem is, it does not work the same for everyone. It's not a broad based medication method or technique like the western style where you can just prescribe anti-biotics for those with this certain ailment.

    It will only work for certain individuals with the ailment as their body is in that certain balance point. With the same ailment in a different balance point, the doctor may have to "tune" the body before he/she can continue with the treatment.
    hence a need for documentation. like, what is defined as equilibrium? how do we know. and as u said, each medicine, herb has a specific use, meaning if we were tojust test one factor and one herb each time, shld be easy to document. lets wait for the scientist to comment.

    either way, it would be better if we can udnerstand more of it. interms of something we can know easier. i still fidn it abstract and i just dun like the idea of using stuff without understanding what goes on.

  5. #45
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    hence a need for documentation. like, what is defined as equilibrium? how do we know. and as u said, each medicine, herb has a specific use, meaning if we were tojust test one factor and one herb each time, shld be easy to document. lets wait for the scientist to comment.

    either way, it would be better if we can udnerstand more of it. interms of something we can know easier. i still fidn it abstract and i just dun like the idea of using stuff without understanding what goes on.
    It's not individual and specific use. There are a multitude of factors involved. And honestly, there have been plenty of western doctors who actually take up TCM to investigate and they still are not able to produce any clear documentation on the workings of TCM.
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Many organization pump money to western medicine to care those uncureable diease like HIV, may be it is good to pump money to tcm also
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  7. #47
    Senior Member dennisc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Broke my leg in 3 parts, 2 hairline cracks and bones around the toe was shattered. Doctor said it was really bad, that I need operation immediately or I could never walk again or not without a limb for sure. Went to 4 other doctors, all said the same thing. They needed around 8 screws and 4plates or whatever for the upper part, and 30k, after multiple x-rays been done. Heck, I couldn't even feel nor move my feet at all.

    To cut the long story short, I went to chinese physician. He hardly touch my leg, just simply felt it over the air, he could tell my broken bone was in 3 parts. Even pointed out the exact spot, which was absolutely correct! According to him, the really bad swelling on my leg was caused by 'air'. Didn't make sense, but I thought thousands of yrs Chinese medicine must have some point to it. He adjusted my feet a bit, placed it on one of his thick chinese book, removed my very uncomfortable big hard cast, replaced by his soft bandage and his famous 'bone mending' medicine, which consist of fish scales, chalk, powdered granite, ginseng, etc which was supposed to be absorbed into the skin to mend and strengthen the bones.

    Next day my feet turned completely white! Supposedly caused by the chalk or something. To cut the story short, he managed to heal my leg completely in just 5months! On top of that, while I was casted (with soft plaster), I could actually walk very long distances with a limp! Until now 2yrs plus, my leg has never given me any problem, and now I can walk very long distances and carry heavy weights without any problem, no limp no complications. And the broken leg feels as strong as the good one.

    Same goes for my mom too, sprained her leg couldn't walk at all. Bedridden for 3 days, same sinseh treated her, in 2 days she can walk with a limp and now cured.

    Chinese medicine has been around even before Western medicine existed.
    Last edited by dennisc; 12th September 2010 at 01:34 AM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by proteonXPR View Post
    is TCM only for the older generation? or maybe TCM not popular because cannot take MC?!!
    some TCM are authorised to give out MC.. its just wheter companies wanna recognise it or not

    TCM does work to a certain extent. there is a new branch of medicine... western + TCM . they focus on both western and tcm to treat patients .. aka using XYZ from western medicine and ABC from TCM to treat a patient..


    when i have a bad cough... i sometimes trust TCM more than local doc.. and im not chinese . only certain things im unable to consume as they contain animal products
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  9. #49

    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    I would say TCM is only good for certain conditions. I would trust western medicine much more.

    For a western drug to be approved for sale you need to first do research in lab to get the active ingrediant. Then you test it on some rats and if it passes you then test it on human subjects, all the while taking note of any side effects. Only after going through this whole process can it be used on patients. Even then, you need a doctor that went to med school for 5 years followed by 3 years of housemanship to presribe it to you. He will have a manual of drugs to refer to that documents down any known side effects or which allergy sufferers should avoid.

    TCM on the other hand was bourne out of experimentation. It probably has a history of thousands years but somehow I just do not trust that the TCM shifu can remember by heart a few thousand years of knowledge. I have also never heard of TCM healing any serious illnesses. I only go to them if I sprained my ankle and thats all.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    I would say TCM is only good for certain conditions. I would trust western medicine much more.

    For a western drug to be approved for sale you need to first do research in lab to get the active ingrediant. Then you test it on some rats and if it passes you then test it on human subjects, all the while taking note of any side effects. Only after going through this whole process can it be used on patients. Even then, you need a doctor that went to med school for 5 years followed by 3 years of housemanship to presribe it to you. He will have a manual of drugs to refer to that documents down any known side effects or which allergy sufferers should avoid.

    TCM on the other hand was bourne out of experimentation. It probably has a history of thousands years but somehow I just do not trust that the TCM shifu can remember by heart a few thousand years of knowledge. I have also never heard of TCM healing any serious illnesses. I only go to them if I sprained my ankle and thats all.
    The full TCM course takes 7 to 8 years complete (along with examinations etc.). That's why even for western doctors who are interested to understand more they have to study it in order to even begin the appreciate the depth of it. I believe that the knowledge is so vast that not all TCM doctors know everything, and many are still on the learning curve -- mastery is a journey not a destination. And there are serious illnesses that can be healed by TCM though I think not every aspect.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Some things are proven.
    Eg.
    MaHuang -stimulant and a thermogenic for good or for bad.
    Ginseng - as a stimulant for sports enhancement
    TienChi - for hemostatic properties


    There was also the famous case recently where a HK TV presenter (Tanya Liu) sustained serious head injuries in a UK train accident and was declared brain dead by UK docs. She was later brought into China for treatment as regained consciousness.


    There probably is a scientific explanation for the meridians, qi, balance, cold/heat terminologies used in Chinese medicine, just that no one has done the scientific work to make them scientific or relate them to a more mundane explanation.


    There are other stuff that seem more like hocus pocus though.
    Best thing would be to take with a pinch of salt and not have false expectations or too high hopes (esp. when it involves loads of money)

  12. #52

    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    The full TCM course takes 7 to 8 years complete (along with examinations etc.). That's why even for western doctors who are interested to understand more they have to study it in order to even begin the appreciate the depth of it. I believe that the knowledge is so vast that not all TCM doctors know everything, and many are still on the learning curve -- mastery is a journey not a destination. And there are serious illnesses that can be healed by TCM though I think not every aspect.
    Can you give me an example of a serious illness that can be healed by TCM? I have seen many desperate people being cheated by TCM sinseis, my relative being one of them. They will ask you buy expensive medicines, eg. 10 years ago ling zhi powder was the craze. Even if there is a TCM "sen yi" that can cure a serious illness how do I know who is the real "sen yi"? If I have a heart problem I'll go to a cardiologist and I am assured that he really knows what he is talking about. I can't say the same about TCM sinseis.

    For those who say you trust TCM, let give me a scenario. If say you have a uncle or aunt with stage 4 cancer and he/she tells you that they are seeing a TCM sinsei that is "famous" for curing cancer. They trust the sinsei so much that they are only taking the TCM medicine and none of the medicine that the western doctor is giving them. How many of you will advise otherwise?

  13. #53
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    on the plus side, western medicine has been documented quite well. any google of the medication brings up the whole list of details needed, including sideeffects, dosage, effects etc.
    on the not so plus side, tcm is quite fishy. i wont say its useless as i used to be on tcm. but until its well documented, i'll just take them as tigerpills to be.

  14. #54
    Deregistered allenleonhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    For those who say you trust TCM, let give me a scenario. If say you have a uncle or aunt with stage 4 cancer and he/she tells you that they are seeing a TCM sinsei that is "famous" for curing cancer. They trust the sinsei so much that they are only taking the TCM medicine and none of the medicine that the western doctor is giving them. How many of you will advise otherwise?
    i admit this is a valid point. have seen a few, especially TIGER PILLS just because its 2000 yaers of medication doesnt mean it has to be good look at witch doctors. until now also got. u wanna try?

    but i have to emphasize the abv is regardign scammers. there are real docs that do tcm well. tong chai medical hall is one decent place at least.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by victorlee10 View Post
    Can you give me an example of a serious illness that can be healed by TCM? I have seen many desperate people being cheated by TCM sinseis, my relative being one of them. They will ask you buy expensive medicines, eg. 10 years ago ling zhi powder was the craze. Even if there is a TCM "sen yi" that can cure a serious illness how do I know who is the real "sen yi"? If I have a heart problem I'll go to a cardiologist and I am assured that he really knows what he is talking about. I can't say the same about TCM sinseis.

    For those who say you trust TCM, let give me a scenario. If say you have a uncle or aunt with stage 4 cancer and he/she tells you that they are seeing a TCM sinsei that is "famous" for curing cancer. They trust the sinsei so much that they are only taking the TCM medicine and none of the medicine that the western doctor is giving them. How many of you will advise otherwise?
    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    i admit this is a valid point. have seen a few, especially TIGER PILLS just because its 2000 yaers of medication doesnt mean it has to be good look at witch doctors. until now also got. u wanna try?

    but i have to emphasize the abv is regardign scammers. there are real docs that do tcm well. tong chai medical hall is one decent place at least.
    That's true. You can't just go to any sinsei who happens to know how to rub bones and muscles and selling pills. People who go for these run the risk of being treated by non-professionals who may have gone beyond their field of knowledge to treat patients. True TCM doctors are recognized by institutions such as Tong Chai in Singapore: http://www.stcmi.org.sg/profile.asp

    So one has to do their homework b4 seeking medical attention. Malpractice is everywhere by western and tcm docs who are less reputed. Years ago my brother in law had an eye operation at Mount E and the surgeon made a mistake and damaged the eye (not blinded) -- sue the fella for 20k as compensation.
    Last edited by snowspeeder; 16th September 2010 at 07:01 PM.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    Good TCM is real. A long time a ago there was a TCM doctor named Lam Wai Mun in Chinatown. He was formerly a medical doctor 军医in the Chinese Army (probably the Kuomintang army fighting the Japanese in WW2). This guy was the real thing. He has passed away. He treated me when I was a kid.

    Same for Ayurvedic medicine.
    Same for Japanese herbal medicine. ( I have used a Japanese traditional herbal medical product before - superior results everytime )

    So here we are not talking theories; or what you read on the Internet about some other people's opinion; or hearsay, but our own personal experience.

    Of course western medicine is good too.

    And of course there are numerous dubious doctors in Western medicine too.
    (ask the late Michael Jackson)
    Last edited by ricohflex; 17th September 2010 at 10:12 PM.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Do you believe in Traditional Chinese Medicine?

    TCM seems to work to cure the disease, not the symptoms, which western medicine is targeted to do.

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