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Thread: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

  1. #41
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by CS TAN View Post
    So far, I have not seen anyone really came out and take responsibility. It is all lip service without sincerity.
    Please refer to my post above. People have already admitted that mistakes were committed. That, in my vocabulary, is taking responsibility. People were sacked and/or suspended. That too, in my vocabulary, is taking responsibility.

    Maybe you can be specific as to what kind of "take responsibility" you are looking at.

    You can all blame those separate incidents after the tragedy as issues with individuals but when victims involve a different country's people, those individuals' act will always be identified as part of that country.
    So it's justified that because of 1 person's crime:

    - An entire nation gets insulted
    - Phil Govt websites get attacked and hacked onto
    - A worker in HK gets fired (reported, and there could be other such cases too)
    - etc?

    As for those smiling policemen, the relevant authorities have already responded

    :Later,

  2. #42
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    Please refer to my post above. People have already admitted that mistakes were committed. That, in my vocabulary, is taking responsibility. People were sacked and/or suspended. That too, in my vocabulary, is taking responsibility.

    Maybe you can be specific as to what kind of "take responsibility" you are looking at.

    So it's justified that because of 1 person's crime:

    - An entire nation gets insulted
    - Phil Govt websites get attacked and hacked onto
    - A worker in HK gets fired (reported, and there could be other such cases too)
    - etc?

    As for those smiling policemen, the relevant authorities have already responded

    :Later,
    In nowhere I see the Manila police chief got sacked. He just went on leave (with full pay). That is taking responsibility when Aquino already admitted there are big mistakes in the rescue action? How about the mayor who ordered the arrest of Mendoza's brother which allegedly triggered the massacre? He seemed to have distanced himself from all the accusations. So as a mayor, he did nothing during the hostage crisis? How about the ombudsman who took 10 hours to reply to Mendoza?

    All I see are the little ones get punished. And that, in my vocabulary, is not taking responsibility.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by CS TAN View Post
    In nowhere I see the Manila police chief got sacked. He just went on leave (with full pay). That is taking responsibility when Aquino already admitted there are big mistakes in the rescue action? How about the mayor who ordered the arrest of Mendoza's brother which allegedly triggered the massacre? He seemed to have distanced himself from all the accusations. So as a mayor, he did nothing during the hostage crisis? How about the ombudsman who took 10 hours to reply to Mendoza?

    All I see are the little ones get punished. And that, in my vocabulary, is not taking responsibility.
    You'll have to wait for the result of the ongoing investigation then.

    I'm quite disappointed that you didn't reply the question I raised above.

    :Later,

  4. #44

    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by CS TAN View Post
    I am. I was born in HK and is currently living there. So, I AM discussing whats happening in my own country.

    So far, the discussion here is still quite civilize so I would say we should let the discussion continue.

    JIX, obviously, you are a Pinoy, so, why don't you tell us how you feel about this incident? Do you feel the Philippines SWAT team has done a great job? or Mr. President Aqunio is not smiling while visiting the shooting scene? Or, the family of Mandoza should cover his coffin with the flag?

    Unless you felt ashamed that your home country has done such a 'good job' in handling this tragedy, why don't you let people here to continue the discussion instead of deflecting the attention somewhere else?
    there are some issue that are sensitive and need not to be discuss, this is sensitive one.
    just to answer your questions:
    1st: its obvious, but they did what they can...
    2nd: that's his way to counter his emotion...
    3rd: it was not them who covers it and the flag does not belongs to them...

    this things can happen anywhere!!!
    prayers to the victims..

    I'AM A FILIPINO & PROUD TO BE A FILIPINO

  5. #45
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    So it's justified that because of 1 person's crime:

    - An entire nation gets insulted
    It's not ONE person....

    It's the police force (operational effectiveness, taking him down at opportunity etc.. )
    It's the government (Not taking appropriate measures to ensure safety of hostage, like acceding to the hostage takers simple request etc.. )
    It's the citizens (taking happy pictures in front of tragedy crime scene etc.. )
    It's the system ( police officer complain of kena wronged? had to resort to taking hostages to seek redress? )
    It's so many factors/issues/problems/parties..

    If.. pple in the country sees it as a "ONE person's crime" issue.. probably there a long long way until any "good" can be witnessed.. just a humble opinion..
    Last edited by Limsgp; 31st August 2010 at 04:26 PM.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    So it's justified that because of 1 person's crime:

    - An entire nation gets insulted
    - Phil Govt websites get attacked and hacked onto
    - A worker in HK gets fired (reported, and there could be other such cases too)
    - etc?

    As for those smiling policemen, the relevant authorities have already responded

    :Later,
    If you are referring to this question, then this is my reply:

    It is not justified to have 8 persons whom has no relation to the killer who were just there to have a good time before the start of a new school year and got gunned down cold blooded. So, there is also no way to justify the resulting reactions. The world is not fair as found out by the victims' family. Please try to justify to the two little kids why they lost both their parents because of the gunman want to get reinstated.
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  7. #47

    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Let's all wait for the final report of the investigation. It should bring to light the numerous details of what occurred, who did what, who failed to do what, etc. All the frustration, doubts, queries here are part of the reactionary outbursts of those and on behalf of those who suffered in the incident. Everyone wants the truth to surface and the negligent punished, so the blame has nothing to do with those who are not involved, it should only be directed at the parties and individuals featured in the various media reports.

    So at the end of the day it will be the integrity of the investigation and the subsequent policies to be imposed that will matter most (which will reflect on the entire system hopefully for the better). Otherwise it will all come back to square one. What we say here means nothing.
    Last edited by snowspeeder; 31st August 2010 at 04:31 PM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    It's not ONE person....

    It's the police force (operational effectiveness, taking him down at opportunity etc.. )
    It's the government (Not taking appropriate measures to ensure safety of hostage, like acceding to the hostage takers simple request etc.. )
    It's the citizens (taking happy pictures in front of tragedy crime scene etc.. )
    It's the system ( police officer complain of kena wronged? had to resort to taking hostages to seek redress? )
    It's so many factors/issues/problems/parties..

    If.. pple in the country sees it as a "ONE person's crime" issue.. probably there a long long way until any "good" can be witnessed.. just a humble opinion..
    The crime was commited by 1 person. Don't make it look bigger than it already is.

    And I doubt one would classify any of the above as a "crime".

    :Later,

  9. #49
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    It's not ONE person....

    It's the police force (operational effectiveness, taking him down at opportunity etc.. )
    It's the government (Not taking appropriate measures to ensure safety of hostage, like acceding to the hostage takers simple request etc.. )
    It's the citizens (taking happy pictures in front of tragedy crime scene etc.. )
    It's the system ( police officer complain of kena wronged? had to resort to taking hostages to seek redress? )
    It's so many factors/issues/problems/parties..

    If.. pple in the country sees it as a "ONE person's crime" issue.. probably there a long long way until any "good" can be witnessed.. just a humble opinion..
    Alamak! Where has common sense gone too?????

  10. #50
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by CS TAN View Post
    If you are referring to this question, then this is my reply:

    It is not justified to have 8 persons whom has no relation to the killer who were just there to have a good time before the start of a new school year and got gunned down cold blooded. So, there is also no way to justify the resulting reactions. The world is not fair as found out by the victims' family. Please try to justify to the two little kids why they lost both their parents because of the gunman want to get reinstated.
    Seriously, I don't get how you came up with an answer like this, to the question I raised and which you quoted.

    :Later,

  11. #51
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    Let's all wait for the final report of the investigation. It should bring to light the numerous details of what occurred, who did what, who failed to do what, etc. All the frustration, doubts, queries here are part of the reactionary outbursts of those and on behalf of those who suffered in the incident. Everyone wants the truth to surface and the negligent punished, so the blame has nothing to do with those who are not involved, it should only be directed at the parties and individuals featured in the various media reports.

    So at the end of the day it will be the integrity of the investigation and the subsequent policies to be imposed that will matter most (which will reflect on the entire system hopefully for the better). Otherwise it will all come back to square one. What we say here means nothing.
    Couldn't agree more.

    :Later,

  12. #52
    Senior Member CS TAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    Let's all wait for the final report of the investigation. It should bring to light the numerous details of what occurred, who did what, who failed to do what, etc. All the frustration, doubts, queries here are part of the reactionary outbursts of those and on behalf of those who suffered in the incident. Everyone wants the truth to surface and the negligent punished, so the blame has nothing to do with those who are not involved, it should only be directed at the parties and individuals featured in the various media reports.

    So at the end of the day it will be the integrity of the investigation and the subsequent policies to be imposed that will matter most (which will reflect on the entire system hopefully for the better). Otherwise it will all come back to square one. What we say here means nothing.
    Manila police dept. investigating themselves or should the justice dept. handling it? From the way the Philippines official handled this tragedy, it really doesn't give one much confident. JMHO...
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    Seriously, I don't get how you came up with an answer like this, to the question I raised and which you quoted.

    :Later,
    All I am saying is: it is senseless to try to justify something logically that is illogical to begin with.
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    I didn't say any of those are crimes.. I say there are contributing factor/parties, and it's not bcoz of 1 person ONLY.

    Let's put it this way.. ONE person's crime, hijack the bus.
    1. Police shot and killed the hostage taker. Zero innocent casualties
    2. Govt accede to request, all hostages freed. hostage taker dealt with. Zero innocent casualties.
    ..etc..

    That is ONE person's crime. In this case, would there be any "insult" to the nation resulting from that incident? Do you believe there would be similar insults of the same scale to the nation in this case?

    It is a massive system failure.. hence the consequences/feedback is wide spread and far reaching..

    Guess "maybe" the biggest insult to the HK pple is "大事化小小事化无。。 big issue make small, small issue make disappear.. = no issue..

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    The crime was commited by 1 person. Don't make it look bigger than it already is.

    And I doubt one would classify any of the above as a "crime".

    :Later,

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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    Alamak! Where has common sense gone too?????
    what common sense are you referring to?

  16. #56
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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    The crime was commited by 1 person. Don't make it look bigger than it already is.
    Just to mentioned another example..

    An SQ plane was hijacked. FOUR terrorist.. A plane full of passengers..

    terrorist taken out within .. 30secs? ZERO innocent casualties..

    The Thing is, the local govt did things RIGHT, and prevented a tragedy..

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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by CS TAN View Post
    Manila police dept. investigating themselves or should the justice dept. handling it? From the way the Philippines official handled this tragedy, it really doesn't give one much confident. JMHO...
    And I thought it's the NBI who's gonna do the investigation.

    :Later,

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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by Limsgp View Post
    Just to mentioned another example..

    An SQ plane was hijacked. FOUR terrorist.. A plane full of passengers..

    terrorist taken out within .. 30secs? ZERO innocent casualties..

    The Thing is, the local govt did things RIGHT, and prevented a tragedy..
    Oh please spare us. Tell me:

    - Were the terrorists holding an M16 (among others)?
    - Were the terrorists a trained and formerly a bemedalled police officer? One who knows how his former colleagues would most likely react
    - Did the terrorists have the benefit of a TV that shows everything that's happening around him LIVE.

    Enough with the "what ifs". It serves no purpose at this point IMHO.

    :Later,

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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    Quote Originally Posted by CS TAN View Post
    All I am saying is: it is senseless to try to justify something logically that is illogical to begin with.
    I guess i can say it works both ways.

    My hope is for the HK people -- like you -- to cool your heads. Stop spreading hate, and fear. Majority of the Filipino people symphatize with the HK people -- especially the victims and their families. But we all should let justice run its course. We all should wait for the investigation to be done and over with and not -- at this early stage -- soil it by innuendos.

    :Later,

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    Default Re: China Angry At Hostage-Taker's Funeral

    The M16 have a chance to be DE-ARMED, but it was NOT done so.

    Ya.. the hostage taker is TRAINED.. And the ENTIRE POLICE FORCE is NOT AS WELL TRAINED. you win.

    Ya. The local govt and police force did a GREAT help to the hostage taker.

    Good that you point out all these.

    Like I say earlier.. if the pple feel it's ONE person's crime issue........ what can other expect anything good to come out of it.. say more also no use..

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinoy View Post
    Oh please spare us. Tell me:

    - Were the terrorists holding an M16 (among others)?
    - Were the terrorists a trained and formerly a bemedalled police officer? One who knows how his former colleagues would most likely react
    - Did the terrorists have the benefit of a TV that shows everything that's happening around him LIVE.

    Enough with the "what ifs". It serves no purpose at this point IMHO.

    :Later,

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