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Thread: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

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    Default How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Hey guys, I would like to check out with all experienced shooters here on the tips to use B+W ND 110 Filter on a nice sunset evening along a riverbank with moving waters and slight wind.

    With that being said, it is easy to get smooth silky water flow of the water. However, I noticed that with long exposure, the wind causes the trees in the background moving, resulting in blurry trees.

    My solution to this problem would be to take 1 shot of the scene without ND filter, with another shot with the ND filter before post processing it with Photoshop with Layers.

    I was wondering are there any other less drastic solution to this? After all, putting on and removing filters will introduce vibration that may change the composition of the photo despite using a Tripod.

    Guidance Greatly Appreciated Thanks in advance

    Set up: Nikon D60
    ISO: 100
    Shutter speed: Varies between 15 sec to 30 sec
    Filter: B+W ND 110

    FYI: I deleted all the photos I've taken due to blur trees..sadly no pics to show

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    Member dingaroo's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Turn off the fan!

    Can't think of any other way, as with the introduction of an ND, and in this case a 10 stop ND filter, amount of light coming in is limited.

    Anyway, me newbie so can't help much. Sorry.
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    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    I think it is very natural to see a photo has cloud moving, water flowing and the tree and leaves also have motion blur.

    anyway, attaching or removing the filter with care shouldn't move the camera, unless your tripod and camera are not stable. just hang your camera bag to the tripod to add stability.
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    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    i don't know if its possible to use a black card to block out the trees region when the wind is blowing very strong..

    same effect as using a card to block the headlights of an oncoming car, then when it past then take down the card..

    maybe not~!
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    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by CatByTe View Post
    My solution to this problem would be to take 1 shot of the scene without ND filter, with another shot with the ND filter before post processing it with Photoshop with Layers.
    That's quite a good solution. I thought of it also, and using it too. But not for trees... too much work.

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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Wow thanks for the feedback guys . Guess there's no other way out haha... Yea my Tripod quite weak so to speak..slightest movement will create difference in the picture which I will have to PP it in photoshop to stack them

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    Senior Member Numnumball's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    That's quite a good solution. I thought of it also, and using it too. But not for trees... too much work.
    i concur.. too much work.. tried it.. and gave up..
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    After searching through Google, I've seen some pictures on similar settings with silky riverflow without blurry trees lol....how the heck did they do that?! Or am i asking something Impossible ahaha

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    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by CatByTe View Post
    After searching through Google, I've seen some pictures on similar settings with silky riverflow without blurry trees lol....how the heck did they do that?! Or am i asking something Impossible ahaha
    they probably did it when there was no wind...

    maybe you need some help from the weather, so that there isn't a strong enough wind to get the trees moving...

    or find somewhere such that there is a building to the side to block the wind from blowing thru the trees...

    not sure if that will be ok anot, but i think no harm trying~!!
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  10. #10

    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by CatByTe View Post
    After searching through Google, I've seen some pictures on similar settings with silky riverflow without blurry trees lol....how the heck did they do that?! Or am i asking something Impossible ahaha
    Solution is...wait for the best time at dawn and sunset:
    1) Give you the best lighting conditions
    2) Normally the wind is not an issue on a clear day.

    There nothing you can do to fight the wind.

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    New Member kriegsketten's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    That's quite a good solution. I thought of it also, and using it too. But not for trees... too much work.
    Sorry, can't help for noticing this thread. Don't mind if you can share what method you're using? Nevermind about too much work, I'm curious what your solution is. Step by step if you can spare the time please.

    I have a solution but dunno if they are simply the same as yours. By too much work, do you mean spending a lot of time or a lot of handy work?
    Last edited by kriegsketten; 26th August 2010 at 04:01 PM.
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    Sorry, can't help for noticing this thread. Don't mind if you can share what method you're using? Nevermind about too much work, I'm curious what your solution is. Step by step if you can spare the time please.

    I have a solution but dunno if they are simply the same as yours. By too much work, do you mean spending a lot of time or a lot of handy work?
    In short..

    1: set up tripod
    2: Take a shot of the same scene with ND filter
    3: Take another shot of same scene without filter
    4: Put both picture into PhotoShop (One on top of another in Layer)
    5: Click on Add layer Mask
    6: Use Paint Brush to slowly painstakingly reveal the trees and branches one by one

    Hope its detailed enough .. Sorry if i missed out some steps haha

    Thanks

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    New Member kriegsketten's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Do you lower the opacity of the top layer so that you can see where you're "erasing"?

    Plus you mean "eraser" tool and not the "brush" tool right?
    Last edited by kriegsketten; 26th August 2010 at 04:30 PM.
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    Moderator Francis247's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by CatByTe View Post
    In short..

    1: set up tripod
    2: Take a shot of the same scene with ND filter
    3: Take another shot of same scene without filter
    4: Put both picture into PhotoShop (One on top of another in Layer)
    5: Click on Add layer Mask
    6: Use Paint Brush to slowly painstakingly reveal the trees and branches one by one

    Hope its detailed enough .. Sorry if i missed out some steps haha

    Thanks
    It should be able to work.

    These photos are taken using a D70s non-IR Mod camera.
    I did an IR shot, then a colour shot and add layer mask.



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  15. #15

    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by CatByTe View Post
    Hey guys, I would like to check out with all experienced shooters here on the tips to use B+W ND 110 Filter on a nice sunset evening along a riverbank with moving waters and slight wind.

    With that being said, it is easy to get smooth silky water flow of the water. However, I noticed that with long exposure, the wind causes the trees in the background moving, resulting in blurry trees.

    My solution to this problem would be to take 1 shot of the scene without ND filter, with another shot with the ND filter before post processing it with Photoshop with Layers.

    I was wondering are there any other less drastic solution to this? After all, putting on and removing filters will introduce vibration that may change the composition of the photo despite using a Tripod.

    Guidance Greatly Appreciated Thanks in advance

    Set up: Nikon D60
    ISO: 100
    Shutter speed: Varies between 15 sec to 30 sec
    Filter: B+W ND 110

    FYI: I deleted all the photos I've taken due to blur trees..sadly no pics to show
    you can't avoid it, unless you coat all the trees with super glue.

    one way to resolve it, is to do exposure blending - take one without nd filter, the trees should be above the water, so this will not affect your water layer. this is a short exposure.

    then put on the nd filter, take a long exposure. this is a long exposure.

    combine the two in photoshop using layers, showing the trees/sky short exposure as the top, and the long exposure at the bottom. i'm sure it's not that hard to visualise.

    the only trouble i can think of is that a trained/experienced eye would be able to tell immediately, especially if there are cloud movements (significant) during the duration of the entire shot (short + long exposure). in such a case, the light/reflections (if present) might not match up.

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    Member jsprtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Sorry me a nood,

    Just want to throw in some ideas to discuss the possibility if this can work..

    Can we do something like a reversed GND for the water so that it will smoothen it out than use a black card to mask the tree part and only removing the black card towards the end?
    Last edited by jsprtan; 26th August 2010 at 05:48 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsprtan View Post
    Sorry me a nood,

    Just want to throw in some ideas to see discuss the possibility if this can work..

    Can we do something like a reversed GND for the water so that it will smoothen it out than use a black card to mask the tree part and only removing the black card towards the end?
    wait, can you explain this in more detail?

    firstly, there are no strong enough reverse gnd - no one make 10 stops gnd, most is 4 stops i think.

    secondly, i think the accuracy of black card is subjective, usually people just black card the whole frame, for things like fireworks..
    Last edited by night86mare; 26th August 2010 at 05:49 PM.

  18. #18
    New Member kriegsketten's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    wait, can you explain this in more detail?

    firstly, there are no strong enough reverse gnd - no one make 10 stops gnd, most is 4 stops i think.

    secondly, i think the accuracy of black card is subjective, usually people just black card the whole frame, for things like fireworks..
    Yup, the longest GND is probably 1.2 = 4 stops.

    Black card is probably most useful during night time, where most of the areas are dark (not much light to work with as compared to day time). Right?
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    you can't avoid it, unless you coat all the trees with super glue.

    one way to resolve it, is to do exposure blending - take one without nd filter, the trees should be above the water, so this will not affect your water layer. this is a short exposure.

    then put on the nd filter, take a long exposure. this is a long exposure.

    combine the two in photoshop using layers, showing the trees/sky short exposure as the top, and the long exposure at the bottom. i'm sure it's not that hard to visualise.

    the only trouble i can think of is that a trained/experienced eye would be able to tell immediately, especially if there are cloud movements (significant) during the duration of the entire shot (short + long exposure). in such a case, the light/reflections (if present) might not match up.

    I guess Nightmare's advice is the most logical one . Its close to what I am thinking of... About the reverse GND, I also thought about it...but it doesn't stop enough light

    Thank you guys so much for your feedbacks!

  20. #20
    Member jsprtan's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to use ND Filter with moving Trees?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    wait, can you explain this in more detail?

    firstly, there are no strong enough reverse gnd - no one make 10 stops gnd, most is 4 stops i think.

    secondly, i think the accuracy of black card is subjective, usually people just black card the whole frame, for things like fireworks..

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    Yup, the longest GND is probably 1.2 = 4 stops.

    Black card is probably most useful during night time, where most of the areas are dark (not much light to work with as compared to day time). Right?
    Well me only putting in ideas for discussion. Well I saw in some of the threads with ppl stacking the GND to increase the stop but than it will reduce the quality in someway. Plus some of the thread there are ppl suggesting the use of black card to replace GND to reducing the exposure timing so i guess black card is not restricted to night bah. but me only a nood so just opening ideas here for discussion as i nvr try any of those yet.

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