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Thread: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

  1. #1

    Default Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    I'm sorry y'all, I understand this is a much debated & long shot topic. I try to be specific to my circumstances, & I have not found a previous thread suitable, therefore I opened a new one.

    I am holding a 450D, well used after a couple of years. I bought it first hand. Lots of joy in owning my first DSLR.

    1 - I have a 24-70 f2.8 & a couple of other lenses.
    2 - I go for photowalks weekly & take quite a few photos per week.
    3 - During photo processing I do crop quite abit.

    I'm quite satisfied with the pictures I have taken, I would like to know if the difference is just that great. I'm very unpro, in fact at times shooting with my lens cap on & perhaps shoving AA batteries in my lithium slot. So please tell me:
    - Is it justifiable to get a 5Dmkii[a digital ff]? Spending $3000 on a camera which I don't make a living from?
    - I would consider renting but some of my friends tell me its better to ask the pros & rent, then decide. I heed their advice. You guys are pros

    Thank you very much in advance.
    minimalist composition & perspective.
    continually sought.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Frankly, its your money to spend. If you can afford it and want to, why not?

    Otherwise, question yourself what why you need a 5Dmk2 first before committing.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by naibaf View Post
    - Is it justifiable to get a 5Dmkii[a digital ff]? Spending $3000 on a camera which I don't make a living from?
    - I would consider renting but some of my friends tell me its better to ask the pros & rent, then decide. I heed their advice. You guys are pros
    pls pm me all your investments, asset list with value, bank accounts, payslip, cpf statement. only then would i be in a good position to advise you.


    jokes aside, if you are a billionaire who owns 8 condos, 3 landed properties in the bahamas and have a pet shark and a jumbo jet, then it really doesn't matter, does it?

    now, if you are just a simple hobbyist who wants something to shoot with, then you have to weigh your spending, your requirements, your ability to earn money and all the opportunity cost - i.e. if i spend additional xxx amount on this camera, am i willing to lose the other things i could have spent the money on?

    it's your choice.

  4. #4
    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by naibaf View Post
    I'm very unpro, in fact at times shooting with my lens cap on & perhaps shoving AA batteries in my lithium slot. So please tell me:
    - Is it justifiable to get a 5Dmkii[a digital ff]? Spending $3000 on a camera which I don't make a living from?
    - I would consider renting but some of my friends tell me its better to ask the pros & rent, then decide. I heed their advice. You guys are pros

    Thank you very much in advance.
    i don't think there is a term very unpro... some people think they are pros but actually suck.. some people think they are just average but they are really good..

    don't put urself down so much, if you take pics every week and are serious in this hobby, then its perfectly fine to go out and splash on a 5dmkii.. but you have to ask urself are you going to utilize the $3000 spent, or is it better spend elsewhere?

    since you don't make a living out of photography do you need to get a 5dmkII or is it better for you to get something less costly?

    these are questions you have to answer by yourself..
    enzeru21 Canon 500D |Tamron17-50mm f/2.8| Sigma30mm f/1.4 | 580EX II
    mylightedreams

  5. #5

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Thx guys, I understand that economics is something I have to answer myself... & frankly haha of course no issue if I was a toto winner / buffet investor. Unfortunately there is an issue.
    - What I would like to gather from you guys is... is the difference really that vastly great between an FF & a 1.6?
    - Individually would you yourself think that its worth it to upgrade from crop body to FF, for a hobbyist[slightly serious?]
    minimalist composition & perspective.
    continually sought.

  6. #6
    Member hotwork77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by naibaf View Post
    I'm sorry y'all, I understand this is a much debated & long shot topic. I try to be specific to my circumstances, & I have not found a previous thread suitable, therefore I opened a new one.

    I am holding a 450D, well used after a couple of years. I bought it first hand. Lots of joy in owning my first DSLR.

    1 - I have a 24-70 f2.8 & a couple of other lenses.
    2 - I go for photowalks weekly & take quite a few photos per week.
    3 - During photo processing I do crop quite abit.

    I'm quite satisfied with the pictures I have taken, I would like to know if the difference is just that great. I'm very unpro, in fact at times shooting with my lens cap on & perhaps shoving AA batteries in my lithium slot. So please tell me:
    - Is it justifiable to get a 5Dmkii[a digital ff]? Spending $3000 on a camera which I don't make a living from?
    - I would consider renting but some of my friends tell me its better to ask the pros & rent, then decide. I heed their advice. You guys are pros

    Thank you very much in advance.
    As you said so yourself, I don't see why you need to upgrade at this point.

    Some people I've known said it is still a great camera. Some also said it is very limiting in performance. The point is what do you want to use it for? Only change when you have the budget and when you are constraint by the features. If you're still finding it a joy to use and haven't stretch the performance limit, then I would personally suggest you continue with it.

    Buying 5D MKII is an investment that should not be taken lightly. Costing around $3K just for the body and you need to buy super solid optics which will set you back $1.5K to $2K for a reasonable lens. Do think carefully whether spending $5K is truely worth it for the type of pictures you're taking.
    Dreamz is the Alternate Realty | Stand Up and Be Counted

  7. #7

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by naibaf View Post
    Thx guys, I understand that economics is something I have to answer myself... & frankly haha of course no issue if I was a toto winner / buffet investor. Unfortunately there is an issue.
    - What I would like to gather from you guys is... is the difference really that vastly great between an FF & a 1.6?
    - Individually would you yourself think that its worth it to upgrade from crop body to FF, for a hobbyist[slightly serious?]
    fair enough.

    difference between FF and 1.6, here are the common reasons given by ardent hobbyists for justification:

    1) FF is wider. sure, until you realise that 12-24 sigma compared to 8-16 sigma is the same.

    2) noise performance is superior in FF. yes, this is true. but do note you pay an exponential price.

    3) dof control for FF. sure, but that also depends on what you are, and the buck doesn't stop at FF. what about Medium Format? this also doesn't really apply if you primarily shoot landscapes, for example.

    4) greater DR. yes, this is true. also exponential price applies again.

    individually, i look at the above, and considering that i do 70% landscapes/architectural shots at iso 100, 20% cats, 10% personal shots... yes, a DX camera is more than sufficient in the long run as well.

    i think (and this is my opinion) to be brutally honest, 80% of FF users out there brandishing a FF camera are not making use of the "claimed improvements" over a DX camera. and frankly speaking, most of the people i know that shoot well are DX users. it's just an observation, that's all.

    i am sure i could easily dig out stunning examples of shots from 450d, then you have to ask yourself - am i making the most of my camera? did i know that i could do this and that with my camera?
    Last edited by night86mare; 24th August 2010 at 12:24 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by naibaf View Post
    I'm sorry y'all, I understand this is a much debated & long shot topic. I try to be specific to my circumstances, & I have not found a previous thread suitable, therefore I opened a new one.

    I am holding a 450D, well used after a couple of years. I bought it first hand. Lots of joy in owning my first DSLR.

    1 - I have a 24-70 f2.8 & a couple of other lenses.
    2 - I go for photowalks weekly & take quite a few photos per week.
    3 - During photo processing I do crop quite abit.

    I'm quite satisfied with the pictures I have taken, I would like to know if the difference is just that great. I'm very unpro, in fact at times shooting with my lens cap on & perhaps shoving AA batteries in my lithium slot. So please tell me:
    - Is it justifiable to get a 5Dmkii[a digital ff]? Spending $3000 on a camera which I don't make a living from?
    - I would consider renting but some of my friends tell me its better to ask the pros & rent, then decide. I heed their advice. You guys are pros

    Thank you very much in advance.
    from the way i interpret it, u should not buy 5dmk2.

    why? bcos u didn't even state the adv of ff over crop... which i take to mean that u are not attracted by the adv of ff, if so, why spend the hard earned $ ?

    some ppl die die must use FF, due to perhaps T-shift lens lah... wide angle prime lah... print bigger lah..

    so better think longer before u spend ... else if u regret .. then it's too late...

  9. #9
    Senior Member sinned79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    I used to use a 450D but it cannot satisfied me the needs of providing me the actual focal length of my lens. For example, my 17-40mm becomes 27-64mm instead. So instead of being a wide lens, it is not. So now using 5DMKII, i get true blue 17-40mm. And a 35mm is indeed a 35mm.

    I appreciate the good ISO control (i can shoot in low light and night time without using flash, bumping up ISO to 6400 and still dun get noisy photos as compared to 450D).

    Here's an example photo i took... near the park opposite Plaza Singapura... its very dark there, I push up my ISO to 6400 and still able to get "good" shot of this kitten photo hiding in the bush.



    Image I am using 450D, definitely buang liao... if I use ISO 6400. Cos the noise will be very apparent.

    Of cos i am a working adult, i can afford this cam, and if opportunity arises, i hope to do pre-wedding and events photography on freelance basis to earn some income out of my cam.
    Last edited by sinned79; 24th August 2010 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Hi, If spending $5/-K is not a pain, then go ahead and enjoy 5D2 since u already have an APS-C
    for 2 or 3 years, it is time to spend and experience the joy of 5DM2.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    My point of view is that if you can afford it, then go for it.. Once ppl use a ff, they generally don't turn back nor have any regrets.. so if you can afford it, then experience it for yourself!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwork77 View Post
    As you said so yourself, I don't see why you need to upgrade at this point.

    Some people I've known said it is still a great camera. Some also said it is very limiting in performance. The point is what do you want to use it for? Only change when you have the budget and when you are constraint by the features. If you're still finding it a joy to use and haven't stretch the performance limit, then I would personally suggest you continue with it.

    Buying 5D MKII is an investment that should not be taken lightly. Costing around $3K just for the body and you need to buy super solid optics which will set you back $1.5K to $2K for a reasonable lens. Do think carefully whether spending $5K is truely worth it for the type of pictures you're taking.
    I have to rent to find out whether its great or constraining for myself I guess. Personally I want to have it for landscapes mostly, with a few personal shots thrown in & sports at times.
    I agree with you especially for hobbyists we really need to evaluate the usage of sometimes indisposable thousands of dollars.

    Thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    fair enough.

    difference between FF and 1.6, here are the common reasons given by ardent hobbyists for justification:

    1) FF is wider. sure, until you realise that 12-24 sigma compared to 8-16 sigma is the same.

    2) noise performance is superior in FF. yes, this is true. but do note you pay an exponential price.

    3) dof control for FF. sure, but that also depends on what you are, and the buck doesn't stop at FF. what about Medium Format? this also doesn't really apply if you primarily shoot landscapes, for example.

    4) greater DR. yes, this is true. also exponential price applies again.

    individually, i look at the above, and considering that i do 70% landscapes/architectural shots at iso 100, 20% cats, 10% personal shots... yes, a DX camera is more than sufficient in the long run as well.

    i think (and this is my opinion) to be brutally honest, 80% of FF users out there brandishing a FF camera are not making use of the "claimed improvements" over a DX camera. and frankly speaking, most of the people i know that shoot well are DX users. it's just an observation, that's all.

    i am sure i could easily dig out stunning examples of shots from 450d, then you have to ask yourself - am i making the most of my camera? did i know that i could do this and that with my camera?
    So if I wither it down: You feel that I will be paying a premium for excellent ISO control & higher DR.
    I agree that most people who upgrade don't do alot of research as long as they have the money. Even if I had the money, I just wanna do proper usage load rating on it. I'm afraid I will under-utilize it.

    Thank you for your well structured answer. I will perhaps do an individual shot breakdown as well before proceeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by sfoto100 View Post
    from the way i interpret it, u should not buy 5dmk2.

    why? bcos u didn't even state the adv of ff over crop... which i take to mean that u are not attracted by the adv of ff, if so, why spend the hard earned $ ?

    some ppl die die must use FF, due to perhaps T-shift lens lah... wide angle prime lah... print bigger lah..

    so better think longer before u spend ... else if u regret .. then it's too late...
    I kinda want you guys to tell me the adv of ff over crop, therefore I didn't really want corrupt first. Haha. I don't use T-shift lenses I guess. Wide angles perhaps, the biggest I print is also calculatable in A1 - A3 sizes, very poster based.

    Thank you very much though. Will count my $3000 dollar by dollar before walking into C-photo

    Quote Originally Posted by sinned79 View Post
    I used to use a 450D but it cannot satisfied me the needs of providing me the actual focal length of my lens. For example, my 17-40mm becomes 27-64mm instead. So instead of being a wide lens, it is not. So now using 5DMKII, i get true blue 17-40mm. And a 35mm is indeed a 35mm.

    I appreciate the good ISO control (i can shoot in low light and night time without using flash, bumping up ISO to 6400 and still dun get noisy photos as compared to 450D).

    Here's an example photo i took... near the park opposite Plaza Singapura... its very dark there, I push up my ISO to 6400 and still able to get "good" shot of this kitten photo hiding in the bush.

    Image I am using 450D, definitely buang liao... if I use ISO 6400. Cos the noise will be very apparent.

    Of cos i am a working adult, i can afford this cam, and if opportunity arises, i hope to do pre-wedding and events photography on freelance basis to earn some income out of my cam.

    This is interesting, because you are kinda like me!
    Therefore you state that focal length + ISO is the big difference between the two. & as Nightmare86 has said, you pay alot for getting this nice premium kitten shot. Haha. It is true though, as you are working, you can afford the cam, perhaps with abit of luck... so can I. I am just worried, that I will be holding a sword I am not a master of.

    Thank you for your long post.
    minimalist composition & perspective.
    continually sought.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by henry soh View Post
    Hi, If spending $5/-K is not a pain, then go ahead and enjoy 5D2 since u already have an APS-C
    for 2 or 3 years, it is time to spend and experience the joy of 5DM2.
    Yes!!! Blindly justifiable... Haha perhaps I will just jump in.

    Quote Originally Posted by david2011 View Post
    My point of view is that if you can afford it, then go for it.. Once ppl use a ff, they generally don't turn back nor have any regrets.. so if you can afford it, then experience it for yourself!
    Thank you man!
    minimalist composition & perspective.
    continually sought.

  14. #14
    Member hotwork77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by naibaf View Post
    Thx guys, I understand that economics is something I have to answer myself... & frankly haha of course no issue if I was a toto winner / buffet investor. Unfortunately there is an issue.
    - What I would like to gather from you guys is... is the difference really that vastly great between an FF & a 1.6?
    - Individually would you yourself think that its worth it to upgrade from crop body to FF, for a hobbyist[slightly serious?]
    Telling you from a perspective of someone who owns both a crop sensor and full frame.

    Full Frame:
    #1. Full frame is expensive. Lenses are 5x more expensive.
    #2. Maintenance i.e. changing minor parts are expensive.
    #3. Accessories are slightly more expensive.

    Crop Sensor:
    #1. Camera is cheap. Lenses are cheaper.
    #2. Maintenance is cheap sometimes free.
    #3. Accessories are cheap.

    Picture wise, crop sensor and full frame is about the same. Main difference is the field of view and noise performance.
    Dreamz is the Alternate Realty | Stand Up and Be Counted

  15. #15
    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by naibaf View Post
    I am just worried, that I will be holding a sword I am not a master of.

    Thank you for your long post.
    thats why people train hard.. practice hard.. so that they can master their sword, or wateva weapon they are holding in ur hands...

    if you are really high level master, give you a simple branch you oso can fight.. if not you have some magic sword oso no use..
    enzeru21 Canon 500D |Tamron17-50mm f/2.8| Sigma30mm f/1.4 | 580EX II
    mylightedreams

  16. #16

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Some people have 2 bodies, a CF & FF.

    Maybe you can keep your 450D & get a 5DMK2 as it's really cheaper using a CF DSLR for birdie taking but it's not that wide if taking landscape & that's where the FF come into play.

    As what others had already mentioned on the pros & cons for both.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Justifiable/upgrade syndrome 5Dmk2

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwork77 View Post
    Telling you from a perspective of someone who owns both a crop sensor and full frame.

    Full Frame:
    #1. Full frame is expensive. Lenses are 5x more expensive.
    #2. Maintenance i.e. changing minor parts are expensive.
    #3. Accessories are slightly more expensive.

    Crop Sensor:
    #1. Camera is cheap. Lenses are cheaper.
    #2. Maintenance is cheap sometimes free.
    #3. Accessories are cheap.

    Picture wise, crop sensor and full frame is about the same. Main difference is the field of view and noise performance.
    Will take note of this, but I suppose if got $$$ to buy I will cough up the money to maintain & accessorize.

    Quote Originally Posted by enzeru21 View Post
    thats why people train hard.. practice hard.. so that they can master their sword, or wateva weapon they are holding in ur hands...

    if you are really high level master, give you a simple branch you oso can fight.. if not you have some magic sword oso no use..
    True, I will master pinhole I will master pinhole... haha... but seriously if you are an expert craftsman with expert tools rock way harder then an expert craftsman with sub-standard tools[if your level tallies with your tools]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy1 View Post
    Some people have 2 bodies, a CF & FF.

    Maybe you can keep your 450D & get a 5DMK2 as it's really cheaper using a CF DSLR for birdie taking but it's not that wide if taking landscape & that's where the FF come into play.

    As what others had already mentioned on the pros & cons for both.
    I believe this is the best plan ever. I have considered this hard as well but the simplicity of 1 body & 1-2 lenses doesn't elude me either. Think about how much logistics you will have to handle with 2 bodies & perhaps 2-3 lenses. Although I think it will be great for all around photo walking if I can stock my camera bag with 2 bodies 3 lenses 1-2flashes & 1 tripod under 10kg.

    Everybody will think I actually know what I'm doing! Haha

    Thanks for this great idea.
    minimalist composition & perspective.
    continually sought.

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