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Thread: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

  1. #81
    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    Of cos if i were to buy 2nd hand i would hafta lower my expectations..little scratches here and there is inevitable..not deep scuff marks..nobody is that meticulous to not have scratches after a year of usage..as for lenses buying 2nd hand really lower the price abit..so yah..i think i may go this route until i figure out this photography thing and absolutely noe what kit i need then upgrade and buy new!

    BTW..where else can I search for 2nd hand DSLRs other than in CS?
    safest is here le la.. you can try other online places, but you can't be sure.. here, there are alot of photo enthusiast who look after their gear well..

    check out the guy selling by viewing his/her profile, their posts and whether they have bought and sold anything recently.. just do some of ur own checking to get some insurance.. if its like a new guy in the forum selling super cheeap then you should be careful le lor.. these kinda things lor..
    enzeru21 Canon 500D |Tamron17-50mm f/2.8| Sigma30mm f/1.4 | 580EX II
    mylightedreams

  2. #82

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    More or less I'm pretty set on Canon..just makes sense cos really both of us can share lenses..now the only thing is to buy a new body or used higher end model..oh..issit ok to buy used lens as well?
    It is not necessary for you to buy a Canon body. I believe micro 4/3 alternatives do have adapters that will work with Canon lenses.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  3. #83

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    It is not necessary for you to buy a Canon body. I believe micro 4/3 alternatives do have adapters that will work with Canon lenses.
    There are EOS to m4/3rds adapters, but there is no aperture control or autofocus. So not really useful.

  4. #84

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by elgkh View Post
    There are EOS to m4/3rds adapters, but there is no aperture control or autofocus. So not really useful.
    Yup, coupled with the adaptor and non m4/3 lenses, it would defeat the purpose to have a small m4/3 system...

  5. #85

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by elgkh View Post
    There are EOS to m4/3rds adapters, but there is no aperture control or autofocus. So not really useful.
    Right. Good to know. Thanks.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  6. #86

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I did not, at any time, imply you did it intentionally. But if you present inaccurate information you may mislead people unknowingly. You yourself are probably misled by some other people who gave you inaccurate information, and is propagating the wrong facts.

    So let me ask you. If CMOS is that great? Why are professional HD video cameras still using CCD till this day? Why are Medium format cameras still using CCD? These are professional level equipment where the best technology is used first. And price is no problem since users in this space will pay for top quality gear since it is for commercial purpose. Ahh... did you notice that point? Price is the key.

    Please read up on CMOS and CCD and understand their technology. Each techonogly has its pros and cons. CCD technology has less potential for noise due to its architecture. CCD also exhibits less pattern noise as image data is read row by row each time. CMOS is read at pixel level, and due to nature of semiconductors, you can get uneven sensitivity across different pixels, so CMOS is more susceptible to pattern noise. CMOS also has more potential for noise as each pixel is layered with electronics (like a semiconductor). CCDs are much more expensive to make, CMOS are much cheaper. CCD are actually more sensitive to light and CMOS less. (one reason why D80 base ISO is 100, and D90 base ISO is 200). CCD consumes more power, CMOS consumes less.

    In DSLR space, where price has become one of the competing parameter, CMOS has come further because there is more development done on CMOS because it is cheap. Newer generations of CMOS exhibit less noise than previous generations of CCD is due to the design of supplementary circuits within the CMOS to do noise reduction at the pixel level. And since it is just layered onto the chip itself (like a semiconductor) it is cheaper.

    So there is no clear advantage who is the winner. Each technology has its own inherent pros and cons. Just that which one they selected for each application (product line) is based on many different factors and in the DSLR case, cost seems to be one of the major driving force. And don't forget Moore's law, that every piece of technology gets improved very quickly as it is developed, and for semiconductor, its speed gets doubled every 6 months. You didn't see the super low noise CCD in DSLR, is simply because they are not used in them to save cost. Remember, new is always better than old. This is the nature of electronics. So you really cannot compare the D3000 to D5000. D3000 is using the same sensor that first debut on the D200. The sensor later got used by D80, then D40x, then D60, then D3000. The D5000 sensor first appeared in a slightly different form on the D300. Then it got modified (for video I believe) and ended up in the D90, Sony A500, then the D5000, Pentax Kx and now rests in the D300s. You are talking about sensors from 2 different generations.

    Please understand the technology first. If not, what you are saying is like saying that cheese is better than butter.
    Thanks for clarifying. Really appreciate that you took the effort to give such a comprehssive and detailed reply. No hard feelings I hope. Cheers
    A580| A300|18-55|55-200|18-250|50F1.8|30F2.8 Macro|35 F1.8|

  7. #87
    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    It is not necessary for you to buy a Canon body. I believe micro 4/3 alternatives do have adapters that will work with Canon lenses.
    the idea of joining his sister in getting Canon is quite ok, getting adaptors and all may not be what the TS wants..

    and also like pointed out, the weight and compatibility of AF may be an issue
    enzeru21 Canon 500D |Tamron17-50mm f/2.8| Sigma30mm f/1.4 | 580EX II
    mylightedreams

  8. #88
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by chanalb View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. Really appreciate that you took the effort to give such a comprehssive and detailed reply. No hard feelings I hope. Cheers
    None. I'll be happy if you take something away from this discussion.

  9. #89

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I did not, at any time, imply you did it intentionally. But if you present inaccurate information you may mislead people unknowingly. You yourself are probably misled by some other people who gave you inaccurate information, and is propagating the wrong facts.

    So let me ask you. If CMOS is that great? Why are professional HD video cameras still using CCD till this day? Why are Medium format cameras still using CCD? These are professional level equipment where the best technology is used first. And price is no problem since users in this space will pay for top quality gear since it is for commercial purpose. Ahh... did you notice that point? Price is the key.

    Please read up on CMOS and CCD and understand their technology. Each techonogly has its pros and cons. CCD technology has less potential for noise due to its architecture. CCD also exhibits less pattern noise as image data is read row by row each time. CMOS is read at pixel level, and due to nature of semiconductors, you can get uneven sensitivity across different pixels, so CMOS is more susceptible to pattern noise. CMOS also has more potential for noise as each pixel is layered with electronics (like a semiconductor). CCDs are much more expensive to make, CMOS are much cheaper. CCD are actually more sensitive to light and CMOS less. (one reason why D80 base ISO is 100, and D90 base ISO is 200). CCD consumes more power, CMOS consumes less.

    In DSLR space, where price has become one of the competing parameter, CMOS has come further because there is more development done on CMOS because it is cheap. Newer generations of CMOS exhibit less noise than previous generations of CCD is due to the design of supplementary circuits within the CMOS to do noise reduction at the pixel level. And since it is just layered onto the chip itself (like a semiconductor) it is cheaper.

    So there is no clear advantage who is the winner. Each technology has its own inherent pros and cons. Just that which one they selected for each application (product line) is based on many different factors and in the DSLR case, cost seems to be one of the major driving force. And don't forget Moore's law, that every piece of technology gets improved very quickly as it is developed, and for semiconductor, its speed gets doubled every 6 months. You didn't see the super low noise CCD in DSLR, is simply because they are not used in them to save cost. Remember, new is always better than old. This is the nature of electronics. So you really cannot compare the D3000 to D5000. D3000 is using the same sensor that first debut on the D200. The sensor later got used by D80, then D40x, then D60, then D3000. The D5000 sensor first appeared in a slightly different form on the D300. Then it got modified (for video I believe) and ended up in the D90, Sony A500, then the D5000, Pentax Kx and now rests in the D300s. You are talking about sensors from 2 different generations.

    Please understand the technology first. If not, what you are saying is like saying that cheese is better than butter.
    Hmm..going by what u said..would u also recommend I take a look at the sony DSLRs? They are pretty cheap too!

  10. #90

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    Hmm..going by what u said..would u also recommend I take a look at the sony DSLRs? They are pretty cheap too!
    I use Sony A300 which uses as CCD and the image quality is great until iso800. But if you take in Jpeg, you need to tweak the in-camera settings to boost the colour and sharpness if not the the picture looks flat, soft and dull.

    And the lenses are quite afforadable (the non-ziess ones at least) as the stabilzer is inside the camera body so there is no need for each lens to have its own stabilizer. If you want entry level, the new A290 is not bad. I won't recommend the older A230 as the smallish grip makes handling very difficult. If you wan't live view then get the A390. These are all CCD sensor models, same as mine A300.
    A580| A300|18-55|55-200|18-250|50F1.8|30F2.8 Macro|35 F1.8|

  11. #91

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    I personally think that in your budget, you should get a Canon EOS 40D with a Kitlens (EF 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS) to start off first.
    That would cost you ~$800 max.

    Personally, I can say that the 40D is one of the best EOS series camera made.

    Regarding to consider Sony, you might want to PM me for more info
    7D gripped, 17-55/2.8, 18-135/3.5-5.6, 50/1.8.

  12. #92
    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    Hmm..going by what u said..would u also recommend I take a look at the sony DSLRs? They are pretty cheap too!
    stop confusing yourself by listening to too many comments.. listen abit confirm that your personal choice isn't really warped..

    then go and buy le.. the more you think and think and compare and compare.. the more confused you get..
    enzeru21 Canon 500D |Tamron17-50mm f/2.8| Sigma30mm f/1.4 | 580EX II
    mylightedreams

  13. #93
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    Hmm..going by what u said..would u also recommend I take a look at the sony DSLRs? They are pretty cheap too!
    You should look at all brands, Sony Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, as well as m4/3 cameras Panasonic GF1, G2, G10, Olympus EP1, EP2, EPL1, and APS-C EVILs Samsung NX10, Sony Nex5, Nex3.

    Look as many different cameras as possible. And try them out at stores or showrooms. Narrow down your choices according to what you like or don't like.

    You have to make a decision on your needs and your preferences. Try not to listen to people too much. Many will tell you the camera/system they use is the best and FTW. I think you should have seen enough posts like that by now.

  14. #94
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by chanalb View Post
    I use Sony A300 which uses as CCD and the image quality is great until iso800. But if you take in Jpeg, you need to tweak the in-camera settings to boost the colour and sharpness if not the the picture looks flat, soft and dull.

    And the lenses are quite afforadable (the non-ziess ones at least) as the stabilzer is inside the camera body so there is no need for each lens to have its own stabilizer. If you want entry level, the new A290 is not bad. I won't recommend the older A230 as the smallish grip makes handling very difficult. If you wan't live view then get the A390. These are all CCD sensor models, same as mine A300.
    I think the newer releases are no longer CCD sensor based. I am not really following the specs, but that seems to be the direction taken by most DSLR manufacturers now.

    Some new releases are really interesting and will definitely shake up the industry. Like the new Nikon D3100... Looks really impressive on paper. 14mp, I suspect it is the same sensor from the Sony A550.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 21st August 2010 at 06:13 PM.

  15. #95

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You should look at all brands, Sony Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, as well as m4/3 cameras Panasonic GF1, G2, G10, Olympus EP1, EP2, EPL1, and APS-C EVILs Samsung NX10, Sony Nex5, Nex3.
    Totally agreed ! ...TS should not buy a camera based on the comments from pple who are trying to rope him into their camps. ...he should gather information, compare and go take a look/touch the actual product before deciding for himself which one best serve his purposes.

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I think the newer releases are no longer CCD sensor based. I am not really following the specs, but that seems to be the direction taken by most DSLR manufacturers now.

    Some new releases are really interesting and will definitely shake up the industry. Like the new Nikon D3100... Looks really impressive on paper. 14mp, I suspect it is the same sensor from the Sony A550.
    If you're refering to the Alphas, the entry level a290 and a390 are still utilising CCD sensors.

    It seems the D90, D3100 and the Kx shares the same Sony sensor as the a500/a550 dslr (pretty impressive low light/high ISO performance).
    There are 2 items I'm just itching to know more about next month (photokina perhap?) ...one is the global shutter of the Panasonic GH2 and the other is the pellicle mirror pair from Sony - a33(14mp) and the a55(16mp) ...exciting times ahead !
    Last edited by Ghostfit; 23rd August 2010 at 04:23 AM.

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