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Thread: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

  1. #61

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    If you are holidaying, perhaps portability should be a factor. If so, consider the mirrorless brands like the Panasonic G2, GF1, G10 etc. or Olympus EPL-1 or EP2, Sony NEX or Samsung NX10.

    If your sister has a significant investment in lenses then purchasing a Canon is probably the best way I guess. But IMO, a good 18-55mm range is versatile enough really. You don't want to be continuously changing lenses on the move.
    Samsung NX10+30mm, Fuji S6500FD

  2. #62

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    IMHO jus get a new 550D with 18-55...it costs less than 1.2k..

    then u off to go for hols...

    it's a long term investment..not a short run where u jus bang on ur budget...

    Canon 500D | 50mm f1.4 | 430EXII |

  3. #63

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by elgkh View Post
    I didn't like the grip of the lower end Canons too, which is why I bought something else

    Just wondering, is your sister willing to lend you her camera for 3 weeks?
    Oh? What did u get in the end?

    Er..I hafta ask if she allows...if haha!

  4. #64

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmatt View Post
    If you are holidaying, perhaps portability should be a factor. If so, consider the mirrorless brands like the Panasonic G2, GF1, G10 etc. or Olympus EPL-1 or EP2, Sony NEX or Samsung NX10.

    If your sister has a significant investment in lenses then purchasing a Canon is probably the best way I guess. But IMO, a good 18-55mm range is versatile enough really. You don't want to be continuously changing lenses on the move.
    Well she has also just started out so only have kit lens and a prime..she's taking lessons though so i think it wun be long b4 she buys another one..heh heh!

  5. #65

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by niciku View Post
    IMHO jus get a new 550D with 18-55...it costs less than 1.2k..

    then u off to go for hols...

    it's a long term investment..not a short run where u jus bang on ur budget...

    Actually..my father-in-law was checking prices in M'sia and he called and told me that 550D Kit II is going for RM3100..which converts to about SGD1300+! That's about 20% cheaper! But the only thing is the warranty..dunno if it's international or just in M'sia..

  6. #66

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    Actually..my father-in-law was checking prices in M'sia and he called and told me that 550D Kit II is going for RM3100..which converts to about SGD1300+! That's about 20% cheaper! But the only thing is the warranty..dunno if it's international or just in M'sia..
    Body warranty is local only if im right
    Canon EOS 30D , EF 17-40mm F4L USM , EF-S 55-250mm F/4-5.6 IS

  7. #67
    Member gymak90's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    Actually..my father-in-law was checking prices in M'sia and he called and told me that 550D Kit II is going for RM3100..which converts to about SGD1300+! That's about 20% cheaper! But the only thing is the warranty..dunno if it's international or just in M'sia..
    Or maybe no warranty at all!

    You made a good query. You have to the check the validity and eligibility of the warranty; is it local or overseas. It's actually permitted in the market, to sell non-warranty items, whcih we come at a reduced price. We call them grey sets.
    The best things in life are free.

  8. #68

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    Oh? What did u get in the end?

    Er..I hafta ask if she allows...if haha!
    I got the Olympus E520 in the end, this was almost 3 years ago though.

    If you can borrow her camera for now, you will have more time to learn more about DSLRs and photography. So when the time comes to buy, you will be more knowledgeable (+ have more $$$).

  9. #69
    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by elgkh View Post
    I got the Olympus E520 in the end, this was almost 3 years ago though.

    If you can borrow her camera for now, you will have more time to learn more about DSLRs and photography. So when the time comes to buy, you will be more knowledgeable (+ have more $$$).
    i think TS is going holiday together with sister in europe and wants to get a camera before going... so don't have time to borrow and learn first...


    To TS:

    anyway, just stick with canon, and stick with your sister.. share lens share accessories.. etc etc... won't go wrong..

    stay with the kit lens.. don't need to bring so many lens there.. 18-55 range is perfect for holiday, weight is superb for traveling.. IQ is good enough.. or if you want to jump then jump to a third party lens like 17-50 2.8 tamron.. (already told you before le, the pros & cons..)

    you just have to decide..
    enzeru21 Canon 500D |Tamron17-50mm f/2.8| Sigma30mm f/1.4 | 580EX II
    mylightedreams

  10. #70

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Hmm..actually even if the warranty is local(M'sia) it's not a problem for me cos once every 2 months I drive my wife back to her hometown just outside JB..so warranty may not be a big issue here..unless the service centre is all the way in KL!!!

  11. #71

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Oh..actually I have been taking her camera to try out and take pics here and there..and trying out the different modes and also techniques and stuff..so yah I'm fiddling with it already actually..it's just she's also going on this trip with me so I can't borrow her camera then..

  12. #72

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by enzeru21 View Post
    i think TS is going holiday together with sister in europe and wants to get a camera before going... so don't have time to borrow and learn first...


    To TS:

    anyway, just stick with canon, and stick with your sister.. share lens share accessories.. etc etc... won't go wrong..

    stay with the kit lens.. don't need to bring so many lens there.. 18-55 range is perfect for holiday, weight is superb for traveling.. IQ is good enough.. or if you want to jump then jump to a third party lens like 17-50 2.8 tamron.. (already told you before le, the pros & cons..)

    you just have to decide..
    More or less I'm pretty set on Canon..just makes sense cos really both of us can share lenses..now the only thing is to buy a new body or used higher end model..oh..issit ok to buy used lens as well?

  13. #73
    Member enzeru21's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    More or less I'm pretty set on Canon..just makes sense cos really both of us can share lenses..now the only thing is to buy a new body or used higher end model..oh..issit ok to buy used lens as well?
    ya, super makes sense.. lol.. unless she suddenly throw stunt say wanna change to nikon~! lol..

    hmmm you can buy 2nd hand, no problem with that, body and lens also can buy second hand.. why not.. just that you must be careful, buying that time check properly whether pass or fail.. minor scratches on the body, or side of lens.. you ok? you must decide.. or are you really cannot live with that kind and must everything come out of plastic wrapping brand new..

    check the lens when you buy from people.. check the body.. then you satisfied then buy lor.. sometimes you get great deals, bcos ppl wanna upgrade.. some ppl got into the BUY BUY BUY mood, just get into photography then buy all sorts of lens.. after awhile feel don't fit them then sell..

    actually i oso bought before a EFS 17-85.. but one month i don't like, i sold it off.. so yup..

    OH if you don't know what to check or how to check best to bring a fren along who is more experienced...
    enzeru21 Canon 500D |Tamron17-50mm f/2.8| Sigma30mm f/1.4 | 580EX II
    mylightedreams

  14. #74

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmOcKxY View Post
    More or less I'm pretty set on Canon..just makes sense cos really both of us can share lenses..now the only thing is to buy a new body or used higher end model..oh..issit ok to buy used lens as well?
    I was a beginner like you when I started in photography a year ago. Got myself a Canon 1000D body with 18-55mm kit lens. I was working with a tight budget so those were pretty much all I could afford then.

    Ever since, I have bought a Sigma 10-20mm, Sigma 18-200mm, Canon 50mm f.18 and have sold off my kit lens. All these purchases were 2nd hand and without warranty. My take is that as long as I am satisfied that the lens does not have major problems when I'm testing it, I don't mind not having the warranty as it certainly lowers the cost.

    I would recommend going the 2nd hand route until you're pretty sure that this is your passion.

    On a separate note, since you are planning to travel soon, you may want to consider an 18-200mm lens. The lens is versatile and lightweight, ie. you just need 1 lens to cover a wide range of situations (wide angle to telephoto).
    "Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" | Flickr

  15. #75
    Member JiEeEe's Avatar
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    my first camera was a used one..

    and so far until now i havent got a brand new one before
    wannabeMusician+wannabePhotographer

  16. #76
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    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by chanalb View Post
    Among the current APS-C models, only D3000 and Alpha 2 & 3 series use CCD and the noise level for the same ISO is reputedly worse compared to other entry level CMOS cameras with APS-C size like sensors like D5000 & 1000D. Also how can we compare APS-C size CMOS sensor with Medium format CCD sensor which is much bigger. Not fair right?

    Maybe my facts are wrong but that is based on what I know and I had no intention to mislead and was just sincerely trying to give advice. I don't mind if you correct me if I am wrong but I think you should not imply that I am either intentionally or irresponsibly giving wrong advice.
    I did not, at any time, imply you did it intentionally. But if you present inaccurate information you may mislead people unknowingly. You yourself are probably misled by some other people who gave you inaccurate information, and is propagating the wrong facts.

    So let me ask you. If CMOS is that great? Why are professional HD video cameras still using CCD till this day? Why are Medium format cameras still using CCD? These are professional level equipment where the best technology is used first. And price is no problem since users in this space will pay for top quality gear since it is for commercial purpose. Ahh... did you notice that point? Price is the key.

    Please read up on CMOS and CCD and understand their technology. Each techonogly has its pros and cons. CCD technology has less potential for noise due to its architecture. CCD also exhibits less pattern noise as image data is read row by row each time. CMOS is read at pixel level, and due to nature of semiconductors, you can get uneven sensitivity across different pixels, so CMOS is more susceptible to pattern noise. CMOS also has more potential for noise as each pixel is layered with electronics (like a semiconductor). CCDs are much more expensive to make, CMOS are much cheaper. CCD are actually more sensitive to light and CMOS less. (one reason why D80 base ISO is 100, and D90 base ISO is 200). CCD consumes more power, CMOS consumes less.

    In DSLR space, where price has become one of the competing parameter, CMOS has come further because there is more development done on CMOS because it is cheap. Newer generations of CMOS exhibit less noise than previous generations of CCD is due to the design of supplementary circuits within the CMOS to do noise reduction at the pixel level. And since it is just layered onto the chip itself (like a semiconductor) it is cheaper.

    So there is no clear advantage who is the winner. Each technology has its own inherent pros and cons. Just that which one they selected for each application (product line) is based on many different factors and in the DSLR case, cost seems to be one of the major driving force. And don't forget Moore's law, that every piece of technology gets improved very quickly as it is developed, and for semiconductor, its speed gets doubled every 6 months. You didn't see the super low noise CCD in DSLR, is simply because they are not used in them to save cost. Remember, new is always better than old. This is the nature of electronics. So you really cannot compare the D3000 to D5000. D3000 is using the same sensor that first debut on the D200. The sensor later got used by D80, then D40x, then D60, then D3000. The D5000 sensor first appeared in a slightly different form on the D300. Then it got modified (for video I believe) and ended up in the D90, Sony A500, then the D5000, Pentax Kx and now rests in the D300s. You are talking about sensors from 2 different generations.

    Please understand the technology first. If not, what you are saying is like saying that cheese is better than butter.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 19th August 2010 at 05:28 AM.

  17. #77

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by enzeru21 View Post
    i think TS is going holiday together with sister in europe and wants to get a camera before going... so don't have time to borrow and learn first...


    To TS:

    anyway, just stick with canon, and stick with your sister.. share lens share accessories.. etc etc... won't go wrong..

    stay with the kit lens.. don't need to bring so many lens there.. 18-55 range is perfect for holiday, weight is superb for traveling.. IQ is good enough.. or if you want to jump then jump to a third party lens like 17-50 2.8 tamron.. (already told you before le, the pros & cons..)

    you just have to decide..
    Missed this part, thought he was going alone.

    TS: new or used depends on your comfort level. If buying used, then please check thoroughly (I think this has been said many times already).

  18. #78

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by enzeru21 View Post
    ya, super makes sense.. lol.. unless she suddenly throw stunt say wanna change to nikon~! lol..

    hmmm you can buy 2nd hand, no problem with that, body and lens also can buy second hand.. why not.. just that you must be careful, buying that time check properly whether pass or fail.. minor scratches on the body, or side of lens.. you ok? you must decide.. or are you really cannot live with that kind and must everything come out of plastic wrapping brand new..

    check the lens when you buy from people.. check the body.. then you satisfied then buy lor.. sometimes you get great deals, bcos ppl wanna upgrade.. some ppl got into the BUY BUY BUY mood, just get into photography then buy all sorts of lens.. after awhile feel don't fit them then sell..

    actually i oso bought before a EFS 17-85.. but one month i don't like, i sold it off.. so yup..

    OH if you don't know what to check or how to check best to bring a fren along who is more experienced...
    Of cos if i were to buy 2nd hand i would hafta lower my expectations..little scratches here and there is inevitable..not deep scuff marks..nobody is that meticulous to not have scratches after a year of usage..as for lenses buying 2nd hand really lower the price abit..so yah..i think i may go this route until i figure out this photography thing and absolutely noe what kit i need then upgrade and buy new!

    BTW..where else can I search for 2nd hand DSLRs other than in CS?

  19. #79

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by altern8tif View Post
    I was a beginner like you when I started in photography a year ago. Got myself a Canon 1000D body with 18-55mm kit lens. I was working with a tight budget so those were pretty much all I could afford then.

    Ever since, I have bought a Sigma 10-20mm, Sigma 18-200mm, Canon 50mm f.18 and have sold off my kit lens. All these purchases were 2nd hand and without warranty. My take is that as long as I am satisfied that the lens does not have major problems when I'm testing it, I don't mind not having the warranty as it certainly lowers the cost.

    I would recommend going the 2nd hand route until you're pretty sure that this is your passion.

    On a separate note, since you are planning to travel soon, you may want to consider an 18-200mm lens. The lens is versatile and lightweight, ie. you just need 1 lens to cover a wide range of situations (wide angle to telephoto).
    Are you still using the 1000D? Dun mind posting some shots u've taken with them?

  20. #80

    Default Re: So should I get new or used? 1st DLSR purchaser!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    I did not, at any time, imply you did it intentionally. But if you present inaccurate information you may mislead people unknowingly. You yourself are probably misled by some other people who gave you inaccurate information, and is propagating the wrong facts.

    So let me ask you. If CMOS is that great? Why are professional HD video cameras still using CCD till this day? Why are Medium format cameras still using CCD? These are professional level equipment where the best technology is used first. And price is no problem since users in this space will pay for top quality gear since it is for commercial purpose. Ahh... did you notice that point? Price is the key.

    Please read up on CMOS and CCD and understand their technology. Each techonogly has its pros and cons. CCD technology has less potential for noise due to its architecture. CCD also exhibits less pattern noise as image data is read row by row each time. CMOS is read at pixel level, and due to nature of semiconductors, you can get uneven sensitivity across different pixels, so CMOS is more susceptible to pattern noise. CMOS also has more potential for noise as each pixel is layered with electronics (like a semiconductor). CCDs are much more expensive to make, CMOS are much cheaper. CCD are actually more sensitive to light and CMOS less. (one reason why D80 base ISO is 100, and D90 base ISO is 200). CCD consumes more power, CMOS consumes less.

    In DSLR space, where price has become one of the competing parameter, CMOS has come further because there is more development done on CMOS because it is cheap. Newer generations of CMOS exhibit less noise than previous generations of CCD is due to the design of supplementary circuits within the CMOS to do noise reduction at the pixel level. And since it is just layered onto the chip itself (like a semiconductor) it is cheaper.

    So there is no clear advantage who is the winner. Each technology has its own inherent pros and cons. Just that which one they selected for each application (product line) is based on many different factors and in the DSLR case, cost seems to be one of the major driving force. And don't forget Moore's law, that every piece of technology gets improved very quickly as it is developed, and for semiconductor, its speed gets doubled every 6 months. You didn't see the super low noise CCD in DSLR, is simply because they are not used in them to save cost. Remember, new is always better than old. This is the nature of electronics. So you really cannot compare the D3000 to D5000. D3000 is using the same sensor that first debut on the D200. The sensor later got used by D80, then D40x, then D60, then D3000. The D5000 sensor first appeared in a slightly different form on the D300. Then it got modified (for video I believe) and ended up in the D90, Sony A500, then the D5000, Pentax Kx and now rests in the D300s. You are talking about sensors from 2 different generations.

    Please understand the technology first. If not, what you are saying is like saying that cheese is better than butter.
    Bro, thanks for the work, it's really a good read.

    Which makes me now really realised that my previous A300 seems to have sharper and vibrant photos compared to my A700 and now A500 at lower ISO, of course high ISO performance seems better on recent CMOS from Sony.

    In fact, I still like the D40 very much, the pictures are sharp, vibrant, yet has good ISO perfomance...

    And to TS, i recommend getting a new camera with kit lens for a start since it's covered with full warranty and nothing to worry about the condition of the camera. Once you are experienced enough, then can explore into 2nd hand body and lenses.
    Last edited by Ouverture; 19th August 2010 at 10:50 AM.

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