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Thread: Regarding filters

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I agree with you.

    While we always tout, the weakest piece of glass will be that cheap filter we put in front of our lens, some people may find it unreasonable (with reason!) to put a very expensive filter in front of cheap lens. I mean, sure, use that B+W filter with a $2000 lens will make sense rather than having spent $2000 on a piece of fine glass, then $20 cheap filter which will degrade the quality you can get from it.

    On the other hand, $100 filter on a $250 kit lens is debatable. You have several options - use a lens hood and forget the filter entirely, or use a cheap filter... or you can also use that $100 filter on $250 kit. Everyone will have their own preference and it's not to sway you from one direction or another, but rather have you know the choices and implications, so that you can make an informed decision yourself.
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by VainKid View Post
    Hi DD, I've no idea how come the kenko cpl u mention is so ex, I saw a cpl which is selling in mass sales corner by memories is only at $30 for 67mm which I plan to coup on me 18-105. What's the major diff? Then extrA $50 can justify the diff? Thanks man
    Well Kenko comes in many model lines as well just like Hoya. Each one of the product lines carries UV, protector, CPL and ND and other specialized filters (not all lines).

    Hoya (from cheap to expensive):
    Hoya both sides coated (single coating on each side)
    Hoya HMC (Hoya Multicoated - basic multicoating)
    Hoya SMC (discontinued?, Super Multicoated)
    Hoya Pro1D (advanced multicoating optimized for digital)
    Hoya HD (multicoated and hardened, scratch and oil resistant. around price levels of B+W MRC)

    Kenko (from cheap to expensive):
    Kenko standard filters (no coating),
    Kenko MC (Basic Multicoated),
    Kenko Pro1D (equivalent to Hoya Pro1D)
    Kenko Zeta (equivalent to Hoya HD)

    Not all Hoya filters are made equal. Not all Hoya filters are priced equal. Not all Kenko filters are made equal. Not all Kenko filters are priced equal.

    Know what you are buying.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 8th August 2010 at 08:05 PM.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by VainKid View Post
    after reading and considering. the price factor of Lee kit doesnt seems to make me move my heart. ive no idea why but just that i dont find the price justify for a hobbyist like me unless its sort of a ricebowl thingy. anyway good luck hunting for cokin. keep us posted on the latest price man, ive checkout CP price for cokin p wide angle holder selling at $17 which is $2 more than what they used to sell couple of years back and it seems that the increment is due to the more demand thingy
    Quote Originally Posted by VainKid View Post
    correct me if im wrong, the Z series is no longer avail in SG market, cokin p wide angle will vignette at 11-12mm of tokina unless u want to stop down at 13mm.
    You cannot justify the cost of LEE or Hitech holders as a hobbyist? and yet you can justify the cost of a Gitzo as a hobbyist. I really do not understand your rationale.

    Filters are what you put in front of your lens. And their quality will directly affect the quality of your pictures and how they look. If you are not able to justify an additional $30-50 for a better filter, I wonder how you can justify buying any good Nikon lenses.

    Cokin Z-pro series you can still get in SG. Just that they are a little rare.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by HoKKienlang View Post
    Hi. I am also looking for a filter system, Cokin to be exact... but in not sure which to get... THe P-Series or the Z-pro series.... Currently my lense is Tokina 11-16 for d90 and Nikon 16-35.

    I notice that the tian ya(cheaper alternatives) only produces filter size for P-series... Can anybody help me on this?

    Do i need the wide angle of the Z-pro series or P-series will do.

    Thank You...
    With the Tokina 11-16, you have no choice but to go for 4" (100mm) filters if you want to shoot vignette free at 11mm. That means, Cokin Z-pro, LEE foundation, or Hitech 4" holder. Or if you have extra cash, you can go for Schnieder 4" (100mm) filter system.

    If you just want to get by, you can use the Cokin P series wide-angle holder (NOTE this is the one slot holder, not the standard holder with 3 slots), and shoot vignette free at around 12mm stopped down. Or you can shoot 11mm and crop a little off the edges of your pic.

    And yes, Tianya only makes filters 84mm wide, which means they only fit Cokin P holders.

  5. #65
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by niunai View Post
    i intent to get those slot in filters square 1.
    daredevil, really appreciate your fast and prompt reply, and sharing ur knowledge. i went to funan john 3:16, simlim alanphoto and fareast some photo shop at the first level to ask abt filters price, what brands they sell. they are so many brands out there, steinzeiser, hoya, vitacon, etc... dont even know which brand to choose from and within the brand, which series. in the end bought nothing, afraid of being chop cabbage.
    I know google is my best friend, but when comes to brands, which 1 more reliable, which one is more price worthy, which one is recommended, i think best is hear from the user themselves.
    really sorry for all the immature questions asked, and thanks for all the CSers who are willing to share.
    Filter brands are like cars:

    Continental cars are expensive and generally perform very very well. Continental cars also have higher and lower models. eg. S-class, A-class.
    Continental cars: B+W, Rodenstock, Heliopan, LEE, Schneider Optics

    French cars are ok and reasonably priced but sometimes performance is not the best in certain situations.
    French cars: Cokin

    American cars quite a few are very good, but quite a number are lemons. Some are good but just not worth the money.
    American cars: Tiffen, Singh Ray

    Japanese cars: very reliable, some are cheap, some are top of the line (like Lexus, Infiniti, Acura), and some of those top of the line even exceed the performance of continental cars.
    Japanese cars: Nikon, Canon, Hoya, Kenko, Marumi, Tokina

    China cars: very cheap, usually copies of more expensive brands, quality depends on the specific car. Some are terrible. But if you find a good one, it will be good and worth many times the low price you pay for it.
    China cars: Tianya

    I will stay away from any other brands not mentioned here and the ones below.

    Malaysia/Singapore cars: Brands are owned/founded locally in MY or SG. Usually most of the parts are OEM by other companies. Supposed to be very cheap. Salesman always try to tell you it is very good and give you the wrong impression that it is made in Germany or Japan. And will try to sell you at a much higher rip off price. Performance is just so so. Some are totally terrible. Some are not bad.
    Malaysia/Singapore Cars: Steinzeiser, Vitacon, Emolux.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 8th August 2010 at 08:47 PM.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Regarding filters

    to be honest, i won't use any uv filters on a cheap lens.

    actually, all my lenses are naked.

    but i agree, if you have the money and you can justify it to yourself, it is ok to go for a good filter system.

    but as with all other aspects (and equipment buys) of photography, the price you pay for quality is exponential.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    You cannot justify the cost of LEE or Hitech holders as a hobbyist? and yet you can justify the cost of a Gitzo as a hobbyist. I really do not understand your rationale.

    Filters are what you put in front of your lens. And their quality will directly affect the quality of your pictures and how they look. If you are not able to justify an additional $30-50 for a better filter, I wonder how you can justify buying any good Nikon lenses.

    Cokin Z-pro series you can still get in SG. Just that they are a little rare.
    Hi dd well I believe most of us started with cokin first then moving up to singhray, lee etc as we get better with our shots later on.

    IMHO I cant find buying something 300+ 400+ to try out n sell away losing 30% of the amoUnt if this system become a white elephant justifying the cost. As for gitzo, i find it useful N comfortable as I am carrying it almost everyday using it to shoot most of the time, I'm fine with paying for nd110 as I would use it often but I'm not sure do I really need GNDs or am I comfortable with using the square filter system yet.

    If I need a nikkor premium lens and I find review & spec is suitable for what I need of course I would buy regardless of the price.
    Last edited by VainKid; 9th August 2010 at 01:24 PM.
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  8. #68
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by VainKid View Post
    Hi dd well I believe most of us started with cokin first then moving up to singhray, lee etc as we get better with our shots later on.

    IMHO I cant find buying something 300+ 400+ to try out n sell away losing 30% of the amoUnt if this system become a white elephant justifying the cost. As for gitzo, i find it useful N comfortable as I am carrying it almost everyday using it to shoot most of the time, I'm fine with paying for nd110 as I would use it often but I'm not sure do I really need GNDs or am I comfortable with using the square filter system yet.

    If I need a nikkor premium lens and I find review & spec is suitable for what I need of course I would buy regardless of the price.
    If you're shooting landscapes, especially keen on sunsets/sunrises (even during daytime) - then without GNDs, oh you're loosing (REALLY) the best part about landscape photography! I've yet come across a pro-landscape photographer who wouldn't recommend a GND to anyone, let alone a good one...

    Nightmare, please smack my head if I'm talking rubbish here...
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    If you're shooting landscapes, especially keen on sunsets/sunrises (even during daytime) - then without GNDs, oh you're loosing (REALLY) the best part about landscape photography! I've yet come across a pro-landscape photographer who wouldn't recommend a GND to anyone, let alone a good one...

    Nightmare, please smack my head if I'm talking rubbish here...
    Hey I totally agree with u and I've caught the virus from nightmare soulfly and daredevil thus wanted to try out. Btw I saw on the other post and it says lee big stopper (big show sound nicer) is a better alternative for nd110 thus my mind change on lee foundation kit. I think I'm going down Cathay to self inject BBB virus soon
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  10. #70

    Default Re: Regarding filters

    hi guys, i did some search and found the B+W ND110 and Hoya ND400 to be the most commonly used ND filters in CS. Also GND as well.

    Does Cokin have the square filters for ND110/400 as I can't seem to find any. Thanks

  11. #71

    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    If you're shooting landscapes, especially keen on sunsets/sunrises (even during daytime) - then without GNDs, oh you're loosing (REALLY) the best part about landscape photography! I've yet come across a pro-landscape photographer who wouldn't recommend a GND to anyone, let alone a good one...

    Nightmare, please smack my head if I'm talking rubbish here...
    gnd is definitely needed for sunset/sunrise photography, and twilight. assuming that you are doing a wide scene, especially.

    that said, it is not a must. some people prefer using pure exposure blending, and that works. the problem is that not all scenes are suited for such a technique. for example, scenes with mobile objects that might move during different exposures are defintiely not suitable for such a technique.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by VainKid View Post
    Hey I totally agree with u and I've caught the virus from nightmare soulfly and daredevil thus wanted to try out. Btw I saw on the other post and it says lee big stopper (big show sound nicer) is a better alternative for nd110 thus my mind change on lee foundation kit. I think I'm going down Cathay to self inject BBB virus soon
    Wow, you're that easily swayed? However, a word of caution - just because you have the Big Stopper doesn't mean INSTANTLY beautiful images ya know? That goes for me too... But I'm prepared to keep learning and experimenting until I really know how to master landscape photography - which may take years... OR I might never... Either way, we're here to recommend the best or second best, whatever rocks your boat, but the $$$ is yours to spend.

    I may talk a lot as if I'm experienced (just the opposite), but nothing beats the pain and endurance the experienced like Nightmare, DD123 and many more went through...

    Think REALLY carefully first...
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  13. #73
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    gnd is definitely needed for sunset/sunrise photography, and twilight. assuming that you are doing a wide scene, especially.

    that said, it is not a must. some people prefer using pure exposure blending, and that works. the problem is that not all scenes are suited for such a technique. for example, scenes with mobile objects that might move during different exposures are defintiely not suitable for such a technique.
    Yes, I understand your point, hence I'm still falling back on the necessary filtering system... Did a bit of reading over the past month or so (homework homework...it never gets done)...

    *Edit: By exposure blending, you mean HDR? Even so, that also means plonking down $$$ for the software right? Also, it means over the years you'll see the need to update the software, etc, especially when the operating system / hardware changes... Both system will have its pros and cons - some will use it hand-in-hand, whilst others will stick to either one, depends on what you're comfortable with...
    Last edited by kriegsketten; 9th August 2010 at 02:33 PM.
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  14. #74

    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by chocnoodles View Post
    hi guys, i did some search and found the B+W ND110 and Hoya ND400 to be the most commonly used ND filters in CS. Also GND as well.

    Does Cokin have the square filters for ND110/400 as I can't seem to find any. Thanks
    commonly used is one thing, to be honest, i would also want a nd106, nd8 as well, but i currently haven't bought them.

    cokin doesn't have a 10 stop slot in filter, you will have to stack it on top of circular filter.

    currently i think only lee has a big stopper which is slot-in type.

    http://www.leefilters.com/camera/new...4B8F96517C324/

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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    Wow, you're that easily swayed? However, a word of caution - just because you have the Big Stopper doesn't mean INSTANTLY beautiful images ya know? That goes for me too... But I'm prepared to keep learning and experimenting until I really know how to master landscape photography - which may take years... OR I might never... Either way, we're here to recommend the best or second best, whatever rocks your boat, but the $$$ is yours to spend.

    I may talk a lot as if I'm experienced (just the opposite), but nothing beats the pain and endurance the experienced like Nightmare, DD123 and many more went through...

    Think REALLY carefully first...
    Wait did u mention Lee stoper is a gnd? What if I'm not doing sunrise but I'm doing landscape with heavy sunlight light eg universal studio? I tot it meant to work like nd?
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  16. #76
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by VainKid View Post
    Wait did u mention Lee stoper is a gnd? What if I'm not doing sunrise but I'm doing landscape with heavy sunlight light eg universal studio? I tot it meant to work like nd?
    It's a pure ND!! Not Graduated! You sure you know what you're getting into? GNDs and NDs have different uses - you need to read up on them bro! The primary use of ND is not to block sunlights like GNDs, but to slow down the shutters (make water smooth, remove people, etc!)...

    Btw, I don't think I've ever mentioned that Big Stopper is GND...
    Last edited by kriegsketten; 9th August 2010 at 02:39 PM.
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  17. #77

    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    Yes, I understand your point, hence I'm still falling back on the necessary filtering system... Did a bit of reading over the past month or so (homework homework...it never gets done)...

    *Edit: By exposure blending, you mean HDR? Even so, that also means plonking down $$$ for the software right? Also, it means over the years you'll see the need to update the software, etc, especially when the operating system / hardware changes... Both system will have its pros and cons - some will use it hand-in-hand, whilst others will stick to either one, depends on what you're comfortable with...
    no, not hdr.

    you take 3 exposures, blend them manually in photoshop.

    won't get the cartoonish effect that hdr always seems to add subtly.

    is hard work, but can have nice results, you can see my digital blending set here, i rarely do it because it's so time consuming.

    this was my first manually blended picture:



    3 exposures; one for the sky, one for the water, one for the rocks.

    erasing was a pain in the arse, i remember this took me nearly 4 hours.

    the second time it wasn't so bad, i think 45 min

    Last edited by night86mare; 9th August 2010 at 02:38 PM.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    no, not hdr.

    you take 3 exposures, blend them manually in photoshop.

    won't get the cartoonish effect that hdr always seems to add subtly.

    is hard work, but can have nice results, you can see my digital blending set here, i rarely do it because it's so time consuming.

    this was my first manually blended picture:



    3 exposures; one for the sky, one for the water, one for the rocks.

    erasing was a pain in the arse, i remember this took me nearly 4 hours.

    the second time it wasn't so bad, i think 45 min

    Lovely and Good job (like the green moss)! Seems very naturally looking to me. Then, no problem as I too have PS to work with - my usual work requires that software anyway.
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    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by kriegsketten View Post
    It's a pure ND!! Not Graduated! You sure you know what you're getting into? GNDs and NDs have different uses - you need to read up on them bro! The primary use of ND is not to block sunlights like GNDs, but to slow down the shutters (make water smooth, remove people, etc!)...

    Btw, I don't think I've ever mentioned that Big Stopper is GND...
    I think I'm a little confuse over so many diff type of filter gosh
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  20. #80

    Default Re: Regarding filters

    Quote Originally Posted by VainKid View Post
    I think I'm a little confuse over so many diff type of filter gosh
    there are loads of articles about filter types on the internet.

    gnd = graduated neutral density
    nd = neutral density

    first one is to balance out exposure in the scene
    second one is to extend exposure of sorts

    hope this helps.

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