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Thread: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

  1. #21

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    go buy landed property 24/7 365 free parking guaranteed spaces and complete safety and privacy
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    More space allocated to parking lots = more land & greater construction cost. Given that it is a zero sum game, this will be transferred back to the project, which means that buyers of HDB flats will have to pay more for their flats. People are already complaining that flats are expensive, so adding more car park lots will only drive up the cost further.

    The question then becomes - what is the ideal parking lots to flats ratio ? In determining the parking lots to flat ratio, you will have another set of headache - demographics change over time. Example, when u are young and newly wed, you may not have a car, but when u get older, get promoted and have kids, you will have car(s). In good times, everyone buys cars, in bad times, car parks are empty. This then becomes a situation where "you can please some people most of the time, you can please most people some of the time but you cant please all the people all the time."

    In the private sector, how do u regulate supply demand ? The easiest is via pricing. More demand = more expensive, less demand = less expensive. Perhaps the ideal solution lies in implementing an ERP kind of pricing for parking in the future, where ERP parking systems (not gantries as typed earlier) are set up at car parks and variable pricing is charged for different carparks within the same estate. You want to park in a carpark where a lot of people own cars, you pay more. You dont want to pay so much, park further away. You dont want to pay, dont drive.
    Last edited by zero o; 3rd August 2010 at 07:09 PM.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    More space allocated to parking lots = more land & greater construction cost. Given that it is a zero sum game, this will be transferred back to the project, which means that buyers of HDB flats will have to pay more for their flats. People are already complaining that flats are expensive, so adding more car park lots will only drive up the cost further.

    The question then becomes - what is the ideal parking lots to flats ratio ? In determining the parking lots to flat ratio, you will have another set of headache - demographics change over time. Example, when u are young and newly wed, you may not have a car, but when u get older, get promoted and have kids, you will have car(s). In good times, everyone buys cars, in bad times, car parks are empty. This then becomes a situation where "you can please some people most of the time, you can please most people some of the time but you cant please all the people all the time."

    In the private sector, how do u regulate supply demand ? The easiest is via pricing. More demand = more expensive, less demand = less expensive. Perhaps the ideal solution lies in implementing an ERP kind of pricing for parking in the future, where gantries are set up at car parks and variable pricing is charged for different carparks within the same estate. You want to park in a carpark where a lot of people own cars, you pay more. You dont want to pay so much, park further away. You dont want to pay, dont drive.
    i dun think we need anymore gantries.. just replace the signboard at the entrance will do.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoooters View Post
    i dun think we need anymore gantries.. just replace the signboard at the entrance will do.
    The ERP parking system i mean .. not gantries. Even if u change the signboards, there will still be people who sneak in and take up season lots. Enforcement by parking attendants cannot be 100%, so people will still take a chance. With the ERP system, its simple, you dont pay, you cannot get out. You park in carpark A when u only pay for "cheapo" carpark B, you have to pay the punitive cost to be able to get out. See how many times people are prepared to take the risk when u know that u will be caught 100% of the time

  5. #25

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Quote Originally Posted by zero o View Post
    The ERP parking system i mean .. not gantries. Even if u change the signboards, there will still be people who sneak in and take up season lots. Enforcement by parking attendants cannot be 100%, so people will still take a chance. With the ERP system, its simple, you dont pay, you cannot get out. You park in carpark A when u only pay for "cheapo" carpark B, you have to pay the punitive cost to be able to get out. See how many times people are prepared to take the risk when u know that u will be caught 100% of the time
    what if the barrier breaks down how? everyone will be trap inside the carpark... if ppl wanna take chance then just increase the fine which is what they are good at... simple as that.
    Last edited by Shoooters; 3rd August 2010 at 07:20 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoooters View Post
    what if the barrier breaks down how? everyone will be trap inside the carpark... if ppl wanna take chance then just increase the fine which is what they are good at... simple as that.
    Every system will have plus and minuses. Increasing fines is another possible soultion. Going by the number of indiscriminate parking i see on the roads nowadays - perhaps our fines are too cheap for drivers ?

  7. #27

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    We have to look at all sides of the glass.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    why do all of you need over night parking?

  9. #29

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Had an interesting kopitiam discussion, sharing for anyone interested. Apologies if it is long winded.

    The 1st number I will look at is the ratio of # residential units to # parking lots per estate (red + white). Assuming there are sufficient lots to go around (and that's a big IF) the below comments may be relevant.

    There's a private condo facing a similar shortage of lots (hey, bad planning. Happens.). It's barely comfortable for the residents, but when some households start owning >1 car, or when there is an influx of visitors, there is a parking shortage.

    What the condo mgt did was mark out red lots reserved for residents after 8pm, and non-specific white lots. Residents can of course also park in white lots. Non-residents parking in red lots after 8 get clamped. Sounds familiar?

    What distinguishes this is that only ONE red lot is reserved per household. This makes it a practical solution for the estate, where no new lots can be built, and residents are guaranteed at least 1 lot. By the way, visiting non-residents in white lots probably do not even pay for parking, this being a condo and all. And I guess there is no underground market between residents renting each other their lot allocation, though it can happen.

    Could sth similar be implemented for HDB, while more lots are built? (I hope they will.)

    And coming back to numbers, I'll be interested in looking closer at the stats in para 2, by further breaking down # red & white lots, and occupation rates (finally, something else traffic wardens can be good for!)

    Oh, and in the 1st place, if # parking lots significantly < # residential units per estate, then, well... THERE YOU GO!

  10. #30

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Well, not surprised at the increase, after this report

    http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking...ry_556692.html

  11. #31

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Dun really understand y must compare with other countries? to make us feel better for the increase? if wanna compare.. y dun compare COE, road tax and blah blah blah... will they decrease these charges after the comparisons? never loh!!
    Last edited by Shoooters; 4th August 2010 at 09:39 AM.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoooters View Post
    Dun really understand y must compare with other countries? to make us feel better for the increase? if wanna compare.. y dun compare COE, road tax and blah blah blah... will they decrease these charges after the comparisons? never loh!!
    they compare so that we know we are still cheaper and they can justify the price increase. we are living in a global city... we need to attain certain global standards mah...
    Mythbusters - the bigger the explosion, the better it is.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Quote Originally Posted by stonefish View Post
    What distinguishes this is that only ONE red lot is reserved per household. This makes it a practical solution for the estate, where no new lots can be built, and residents are guaranteed at least 1 lot...

    Could sth similar be implemented for HDB, while more lots are built? (I hope they will.)
    good idea but hard to police in HDB. if one household has 2 cars... both the cars confirmed will be parked at the red lots. does kiasuism ring a bell?

    and if very household do this... then, the white lots would have been taken up too. and then, people will complain too many ("foreign") cars in the white lots.

    one thing about condo is they can control the number of cars parking at the carparks. most of them issue one transponder to each household. the transponder simply opens the carpark gantry when you approach it. if you have more than one car and requires a new transponder, then you'll have to put a deposit. so, if carpark space is running low... the condo management could control the number of transponders being issued out.
    Last edited by mohgui; 4th August 2010 at 10:00 AM.
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  14. #34

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Typical Singapore Way of solving problems. Instead of spending money to solve a problem, they decide to make money solving a problem. Plus, it does not serve any purpose at all. In the end, cars will have to park somewhere. You can't roll it up to your 7th storey HDB.

    Paint more red reserved lots for the season ticket holders, build more carparks---problem solved.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    btw, painting more red lots will not solve the problem either. the problem arises because of poor estate planning and design.

    for example, my estate has 4 blocks and from what i gather... the carpark lots are too damn few to cater to these blocks. although we are allowed to park our vehicles at nearby carparks... but that would then take up the spaces for blocks at the nearby carpark.

    so, the problem will just go round and round in an endless loop... sigh.
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoooters View Post
    Dun really understand y must compare with other countries? to make us feel better for the increase? if wanna compare.. y dun compare COE, road tax and blah blah blah... will they decrease these charges after the comparisons? never loh!!
    ya lor, compare singapore cost of using a car with japan & malaysia or even usa, than how? with japan, we r still very cheap. compare to malaysia & usa, our COE alone can get a very good car over there.


    just like comparing ur own kid/s to others', compare to those in gifted class or those in normal stream (not sure if they still have that, i am from the 80s). so why?


    see the reason now? comparing kids test results with gifted kids one have "valid" reason to push their own kid/s harder to achieve better grades.

    likewise comparing with japan, we have "valid" reasons to increase whatever we want.

    like i mentioned, go with the flow with less resistant.
    Last edited by denniskee; 4th August 2010 at 11:17 AM.
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  17. #37

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    Quote Originally Posted by mohgui View Post
    good idea but hard to police in HDB. if one household has 2 cars... both the cars confirmed will be parked at the red lots. does kiasuism ring a bell?

    and if very household do this... then, the white lots would have been taken up too. and then, people will complain too many ("foreign") cars in the white lots.

    one thing about condo is they can control the number of cars parking at the carparks. most of them issue one transponder to each household. the transponder simply opens the carpark gantry when you approach it. if you have more than one car and requires a new transponder, then you'll have to put a deposit. so, if carpark space is running low... the condo management could control the number of transponders being issued out.
    Instead of trasnponders, HDB could do this check on those buying season parking, based on household address. Eg purple season parking labels for those with a reserved red lot.

    Then again, this is only a temporary solution allocating the existing supply of lots between residents and non-residents. Does nothing to increase the supply, and yup, people wil still complain about non-resident's cars.

  18. #38
    Senior Member denniskee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    i wonder those 24hr kopitiam night time how r? customer park road side kana traffic offence. last time in car park $2 (just take it as 2hr parking lor, chit chat, eat, drink, not so bad), now $4.

    also, my side, last time got night parking, now must go 1 million 8000 miles away to park, wonder how it had affected the 24hr kopitiam.
    Last edited by denniskee; 4th August 2010 at 11:36 AM.
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  19. #39

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    A story to share.


    "A fox fell into a well and was stuck there. A passing goat saw the fox asked if the water tasted good. "It's the best water you'll ever taste," said the fox, at which the goat promptly jumped into the well to drink. On realising he was stuck too, the goat agreed that the fox could climb up and over him out of the well and then help the goat out. The fox duly climbed up and over the goat to his freedom but left the goat stranded." - Aesop's fables




    .
    Tum podem extulit horridulum...日出東方﹐唯我不敗。

  20. #40

    Default Re: Overnight parking at HDB and URA lots to cost more

    If every time got problem, and the solution is pay and pay. in the future, the number of poor ppl will increase... then they will waste money to hold events like charity shows on TV asking everyone to donate.. then.. there will be an increase in corruptions... and whatever blahs that gonna surface.. i felt that the problems are snowballing.. one problem leading to another..

    I think what every Singaporean wants is increase in salary..than there will be less poor ppl, less charity show..less corruption..less complains and less chance for our gov.to increase this & that.... agreed?
    Last edited by Shoooters; 4th August 2010 at 03:53 PM.

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