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Thread: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

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    Default Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Hi all, I have been doing sports shoot for a media agency representing Asian Athletics Association and SSC/Tean Sg and have had a chance to travel on overseas assignment. I am no pro nor am claiming to be an expert in this field, but am more than willing to share ideas and opportunities with those like-minded photography with a passion for sports photography.

    I am wondering if anyone, especially those interested in this field,would like to form an interest group. I will link this group up with SSC for opportunities to shoot sporting events under them.

    Before anyone cries exploitation, let me clarify that the intention is more to create opportunities for individuals to shoot spoting events and to build up their potfolio and experience. It is hope that through this scheme, some will eventually be enlisted to shoot for SSC or any agencies who need such services.

    I am proposing the setting up this group as a means to share ideas and experience and to promote this genre in photography. What would help this iniative would be access to venues of sporting events. In return, you might be required to upload some images taken. It should be noted that I cannot guaranteed that you will get any paid assignment eventually, but if you are good I am sure such offers could be a reality.
    Last edited by Danntbt; 26th July 2010 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danntbt View Post
    Hi all, I have been doing sports shoot for a media agency representing Asian Athletics Association and SSC/Tean Sg and have had a chance to travel on overseas assignment. I am no pro nor am claiming to be an expert in this field, but am more than willing to share ideas and opportunities with those like-minded photography with a passion for sports photography.

    I am wondering if anyone, especially those interested in this field,would like to form an interest group. I will link this group up with SSC for opportunities to shoot sporting events under them.

    Before anyone cries exploitation, let me clarify that the intention is more to create opportunities for individuals to shoot spoting events and to build up their potfolio and experience. It is hope that through this scheme, some will eventually be enlisted to shoot for SSC or any agencies who need such services.

    I am proposing the setting up this group as a means to share ideas and experience and to promote this genre in photography. What would help this iniative would be access to venues of sporting events. In return, you might be required to upload some images taken. It should be noted that I cannot guaranteed that you will get any paid assignment eventually, but if you are good I am sure such offers could be a reality.
    Hi! Finally i see an opening that i've been looking for! Like you mentioned...i'm no pro but just has this lean towards sports photography. This part of photography is definitely not that popular i guess. I've been doing this for only more than a year and mostly on my own....learning along the way. It wud definitely be nice to generate an interest grp be it just for casual SSS outing or on projects. Pls keep me in thought. Actually i just created a thread in CS just to share my takes on my limited exposure to sports photography.....

    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=731933

    Hope to hear from you soon!

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Hi dev, some great shots you have there, I hope to get a core group with experience such as yours to move this iniative along, if you look around, there are indeed room for growth in this genre locally. I will initiate to meet up with some of those who are keen and have some experiences to discuss how we can coordinate with SSC.

    I would like to emphasize that at this point the aim is to create opportunities to shoot and renumeration is not the intention. We will see how this takes off and move from there....

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Thks for appreciating...which is actually wat i hope to get out of my photography. If my little bit of knowledge is of any help...i'd be most willing to! Thks for initiating and hopefully you can set something going. Pls keep me posted...cheers!

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Hi. This is a call for a good cause! I have been shooting events and some of it involve sports. I realised that sports photography is an entirely different kind of photography (I am a newbie in sports photography ). You need mostly anticipation, knowledge of the sport itself and maybe some predictions (Eg: where the ball going to land, etc). All I can say that, it is not easy shooting sports. If an interest group is set up for this, it'll be another platform to pursue this photography. Sharing ideas, experience and most importantly, opportunities to shoot more sports.

    I will definitely support this wherever it'll lead to. Calling for more photogs to join!
    (YOG is coming up real soon. At least we won't be shooting alone )

    Thnks Danntbt for bringing this up!

    Dev, theres some nice shot there! Wished I can shoot like that. Great photos.
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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Hi all, I have received a few PM, so there are some interest, I will contact SSC and discuss with the contact person there. Some of you might be volunteers at YOG? Unfortunately only accredited photographers will have access to YOG venues, and most YOG volunteers would be have only restricted entries. I have enquired about registration for for those who have not accredited yet, but it is closed. SSC is kind of short of photographers, they hope to create more interest in this area.

    For a start I think I will keep to a list of about 10 names, so far, dev and shahrie has indicated on this thread, plus 3 others through PM. I will open to another 5 people before I close the list.

    Will get back to you guys soon.

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    To confirm your involvement, please PM me your contact details, i.e. name/tel/email.

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahrie View Post
    Hi. This is a call for a good cause! I have been shooting events and some of it involve sports. I realised that sports photography is an entirely different kind of photography (I am a newbie in sports photography ). You need mostly anticipation, knowledge of the sport itself and maybe some predictions (Eg: where the ball going to land, etc). All I can say that, it is not easy shooting sports. If an interest group is set up for this, it'll be another platform to pursue this photography. Sharing ideas, experience and most importantly, opportunities to shoot more sports.

    I will definitely support this wherever it'll lead to. Calling for more photogs to join!
    (YOG is coming up real soon. At least we won't be shooting alone )

    Thnks Danntbt for bringing this up!

    Dev, theres some nice shot there! Wished I can shoot like that. Great photos.

    Thks for the compliments! With such a short exposure in photography...i wud still consider myself a newbie compared to the lao jiaos lah hahaha. However...sports photography as i have come to realise is not as easy as it seems and it does take a toll on ur physics as well. A constant suntan is certainly something you have to expect lol! Glad to see the interest generated. Hope to be able to meet up and TCSS soon!

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danntbt View Post
    Before anyone cries exploitation, let me clarify that the intention is more to create opportunities for individuals to shoot spoting events and to build up their potfolio and experience. It is hope that through this scheme, some will eventually be enlisted to shoot for SSC or any agencies who need such services.
    Unfortunately, I am going to cry exploitation. Or more like, exploiting yourselves.

    I understand your standpoint now, building up the portfolio and getting experience and giving your time and work in exchange. That part I can accept. But, and maybe I am doing the SSC a disservice, but if you have been giving them a body of work from a dozen or more photographers, what's the incentive for them to eventually enlist you for paid work given they've been getting everything for free before?

    All of these things start out the same way; no one sets out to get themselves exploited but feel that they're getting the better end of the deal. Those roles will reverse, and you end up jeopardising everyone else who's trying to earn money... including yourselves in the longer term.

    There is, for example, a rumour doing the rounds that the the organising committee of the YOG are not paying anyone for their photographic coverage. This is in no small part due to the fact that there are volunteer photographers queuing up for miles to get the opportunity to photograph the event. No doubt those volunteers have the exact same goals as you, but that same situation is already stopping the current professionals from getting paid, do you really think it realistic to hope to be paid yourselves in the future?

    You can get experience shooting lower level events; you don't need to shoot big events to learn and produce a portfolio.

    I'd ask everyone to reconsider. In fact I will. But I suspect you'll still get tonnes of interested people anyway.

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Hi Jed. I understand where ure coming from and I too don't believe working/shooting for free. At least if there's some form of incentive involve, I believe most will benefit from it.
    Eg: if I'm given an opportunity to shoot Michael Phelps in action rather than any Michael swimming around, it'll make a better portfolio isn't it?
    I'm not saying anyone will get to shoot big names. Thts too farfetched anyway. All I'm saying is, if the interest group has it privileges, why not?

    Anyway, we'll see where this lead to. If SSC or anybody want to 'exploit' freewilled, enthusiastic sports shooters, I think we are smart enough to stop our involvements.
    I am actually looking forward more on setting up a common interest group where we can have our own outing, TCSS session. Sports Photography is an entirely diff kind of photography.
    And we ought to hv a community to share and help one another on regular basis.

    Being exploited or not, we have our own eyes to see, ears to hear and a pair of legs to walk away.

    (No intention to offend anyone. Evrything I said is entirely my own 2cts) Cheers.
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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    I forgot to mention. Monetory incentives are also vital in keeping my passion alive.
    But like what Jed had said, there's too many shooters who's willing to shoot for free anyway.
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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahrie View Post
    Eg: if I'm given an opportunity to shoot Michael Phelps in action rather than any Michael swimming around, it'll make a better portfolio isn't it?
    Heh. Been there, done that. Frankly I wish I hadn't bothered on a freezing cold whenever it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahrie View Post
    Anyway, we'll see where this lead to. If SSC or anybody want to 'exploit' freewilled, enthusiastic sports shooters, I think we are smart enough to stop our involvements.
    You might be "smart enough" but the question is, are the other people in that group smart enough? Maybe someone might think okay I've shot a couple of events now, I want paying. But there will always be another bunch showing up to take your place, thinking *exactly* what everyone who's keen is now thinking... I can shoot a few events, don't need to be paid now no big deal, maybe some day in the future...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahrie View Post
    I am actually looking forward more on setting up a common interest group where we can have our own outing, TCSS session. Sports Photography is an entirely diff kind of photography.
    By all means, get a group together. Have group outings. Use the clout to maybe get you special access to some events, but don't go to the extent of giving your pictures away. Like I said, maybe you can't get into top tier events, but you can get into second tier events, particularly as a group.

    There will also be good events you can get into; the SCC rugby 7s for example, is about as good a rugby event as you'll see in Singapore, and from memory access is pretty good.

    It doesn't matter where in the world you are; and to a large extent it doesn't matter what kind of permission you have. The larger the event, the more restricted you will be with where you can go, what you can do. For the vast majority of situations if you want to learn about sports photography, get better at it, get good pictures even, then your better bet will be trundling along to an event of a semi-decent standard with little to no restrictions, and learning from that.

    If on the other hand you are after pictures of big name X, then that's a different story.

    It's curious you mention Michael Phelps, because that was the last big name I tried to go after. Like I said, I don't think I've looked at those pictures after I wired them (seven/eight months ago), and frankly I struggled to find any decent ones to wire in the first place due to very restrictive working positions. The fact is I've got better images out of the nationals, random regionals I've done, and even the Commonwealth Games. They'd be of people of differing repute, but the images are far better. If you just want a picture of Michael Phelps then you've not got a lot of option, but if you don't mind people of a lower standard, it's usually a lot easier to get much better pictures of them. And if you're happy to rate your pictures essentially on their aesthetics, then that's all that matters.

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Hi all,

    Its a superb initiative, again highlighting the cohesive and knowledge-sharing attitude of the CSians!!! Would be happy to be a part of this group...!

    Regards to all!
    Neetsdendie...India's Neets!!!

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Having a Special Interest Group is fine, but my advice is go for events open to the public only. Allowing other organizations access to your services for free will only lead to exploitation. If they need more ppl to shoot at their events, they should be relying on their media agencies to get them the manpower.

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Ditto the thoughts of Jed. I am thinking more from the point of view of free volunteers and officials, but he has put it nicely from photographer point of view. I know someone is getting paid up there, but who looks after the interests of those below? And why the need to, when you can just get fresh blood in all the time after exploiting those from the previous events. Why not just get those photographers who have been involved in various previous years SEA Games and Singapore Cup events, and pay them to do a good job? Because they won't work for peanuts?

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    Question Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    I have had a busy day so did not check out this thread until now, I have gotten enough people interested so I will close the list for now until I see the outcome with what I have gotten. I understand Jed's standpoint, and I have anticipated this kind of reaction, i will allow this thread to remain open for a few more days to allow whoever wish to give their two cents worth.

    I guess that's why most people PMed me rather than post here... I have to be frank to all, that I do not shoot for them for free, neither do I for other agencies nor for friends. As for the expected payback in terms of images to them in return for access, I am in discussion with them. However I do not feel I am short-changing myself in opening up doors for others to come in as this is an area which is not quite saturated yet. And I am not giving any promises to those willing to come in, just opportunities to shoot. Anyway to really go the limit, one need to put in pretty steep investment in terms of equipments. Spare me the adhage, "the man behind the cam is more important", as in sports without the right gears it is much tougher to get the shots you want due to various restrictions such as reach, lights etc.

    I know one can take great pictures at juniors swimming carnival, but junior can never be as awesome as Phelp in action.

    I don't know what kind of arrangement SSC has with YOG volunteers, but they have hundreds of them, but yet they still enlist regulars to cover various YOG events. I am sure they know one can never truly rely on volunteers. Strait Times has their own volunteer scheme, at least 50 have been enlisted. I don't think they are firing their photog team anytime soon. They also have thousands of Storm poopers.
    Last edited by Danntbt; 27th July 2010 at 10:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    It's really great to see the concern shown by the mods and opinions expressed by seniors. I guess each has their point of view and it's really good that we are willing to voice them out open for discussion.

    I've been happily shooting sports for a little more than a year and i still hunger for more. There's really so many other form of sports that i havent shot. I've been shooting open events mostly and has learned so much but it's only during 2 events where i volunteered myself (free) as part of the event photog team then do i really get good access to shoot what i wanted to. It was really satisfying to see the end results and more so when they selected one of my pics to post up on the website. This is something which i believe you will never get from just side shooting open or public events.

    I've often hoped that someday i will have the chance to shoot sports professionally. I think that putting the "exploitation" subject aside...what TS has offered is a small but important door opening for me. Nevertheless...like TS mentioned....no promises of any kind as he's merely opening the door and the rest is still very subjective. At this point of time, i am of the opinion that the TS is sincere and open in his offer.

    I believe that even if TS didnt come up with this offer...i'd still be grabbing chances even if they are for free....just to have official access. Of course i have told myself that once i've accumulated enough skills and exposure...i'd like to approach organizations in the hope of going pro. By his offering, TS actually shortens my quest.

    I'm taking up TS offer with an open mind. I mean you need to test drive before you buy a car right? With TS's connection...and my meagre photography skills...i hope to be able to influence and eventually get their accredition. It would definitely be a big score in my portfolio!

    Last but not least,I sincerely hope that this thread will not turn ugly and all contributions be kept sincere and friendly.

    Cheers peeps!

    P/Samn! As of last week,I cant even pay to shoot any diving events for YOG ( tics all sold out!!! ) Envy those official photogs....i mean Guo Jing Jing diving you know hehehe
    Last edited by dev2k8; 27th July 2010 at 11:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danntbt View Post
    I know one can take great pictures at juniors swimming carnival, but junior can never be as awesome as Phelp in action.
    Sorry if I'm beating on about it again, but it's an important point. It is simply not true that a junior can never photograph as well as Michael Phelps in action. As long as they have a reasonable swimmer's physique and competence, then there is every potential for creating good imagery there, as there is from shooting an established swimmer. There might be very small differences, and this will differ from sport to sport, but in general, there is very little between professional and amateur sport (of a decent level).

    My best golf picture is not of Tiger Woods, my best tennis picture is not of Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal, my best swimming picture is not of Michael Phelps, and my best rugby picture is not of Jonny Wilkinson despite having been his club photographer for ten years.

    What you lose, is name checking. The opportunity to say, or show, that you have pictures of X, Y or Z. That can be a valid motivation, but if that's the case then say that, don't disguise it as wanting to shoot higher level events to "build up the portfolio and for experience". Unless the only building you want to do is name checking.

    Having said that, I appreciate the lure of name checking. I sometimes wish my best pictures are of Woods, Federer and co. Two years ago when I was shortlisted for the Barclays Premiership Shot of the Season I honestly thought I had the best image there, but I knew I hadn't a chance of winning because it was taken at Middlesbrough v Bolton. An image of Wayne Rooney, unsurprisingly, was the winning picture. But things like that are as much a sponsors decision and they're motivated, understandably, by name to a significant extent.

    But my best photographs? Like I said, to a large extent you have as much chance of getting a great image of Joe Bloggs at a decent level, as you do of getting a great image of Michael Phelps. As I've tried to argue, if anything the greater restrictions on access weights the odds in favour of the unknown athlete, if anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danntbt View Post
    I don't know what kind of arrangement SSC has with YOG volunteers, but they have hundreds of them, but yet they still enlist regulars to cover various YOG events. I am sure they know one can never truly rely on volunteers.
    Just how sure are you? Like I said, I have no idea what the real situation is on the ground, but the rumour doing the rounds is that they are truly relying on volunteers, and not paying anyone to cover events. I stress this is only what I'm hearing, and I'd quite like to hear from someone who is covering it who is getting paid, if you're out there.

    If the rumour is true, then really it illustrates exactly what I'm warning against, in a very big way. Arguably the biggest sporting event ever held in Singapore, and they've no interest in hiring people to get it done professionally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danntbt View Post
    Strait Times has their own volunteer scheme, at least 50 have been enlisted. I don't think they are firing their photog team anytime soon.
    To an extent this also applies to the YOG even if they are paying some photographers. But the question is not, for example, the ST firing their existing photographic employees. But have they managed to employ less/not have to employ any more? If the answer is no then great and good, if the answer is yes, then it gets more murky. I'm not saying it's definitely bad, but more details would be needed before you can wave it away and say the volunteers are not having a detrimental effect on the industry.

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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jed View Post
    Heh. Been there, done that. Frankly I wish I hadn't bothered on a freezing cold whenever it was.



    You might be "smart enough" but the question is, are the other people in that group smart enough? Maybe someone might think okay I've shot a couple of events now, I want paying. But there will always be another bunch showing up to take your place, thinking *exactly* what everyone who's keen is now thinking... I can shoot a few events, don't need to be paid now no big deal, maybe some day in the future...



    By all means, get a group together. Have group outings. Use the clout to maybe get you special access to some events, but don't go to the extent of giving your pictures away. Like I said, maybe you can't get into top tier events, but you can get into second tier events, particularly as a group.

    There will also be good events you can get into; the SCC rugby 7s for example, is about as good a rugby event as you'll see in Singapore, and from memory access is pretty good.

    It doesn't matter where in the world you are; and to a large extent it doesn't matter what kind of permission you have. The larger the event, the more restricted you will be with where you can go, what you can do. For the vast majority of situations if you want to learn about sports photography, get better at it, get good pictures even, then your better bet will be trundling along to an event of a semi-decent standard with little to no restrictions, and learning from that.

    If on the other hand you are after pictures of big name X, then that's a different story.

    It's curious you mention Michael Phelps, because that was the last big name I tried to go after. Like I said, I don't think I've looked at those pictures after I wired them (seven/eight months ago), and frankly I struggled to find any decent ones to wire in the first place due to very restrictive working positions. The fact is I've got better images out of the nationals, random regionals I've done, and even the Commonwealth Games. They'd be of people of differing repute, but the images are far better. If you just want a picture of Michael Phelps then you've not got a lot of option, but if you don't mind people of a lower standard, it's usually a lot easier to get much better pictures of them. And if you're happy to rate your pictures essentially on their aesthetics, then that's all that matters.
    In reply to this, I've actually typed quite a lot. But after much thinking. I incline to agree with you. I believe you're trying to protect us, photographer's interest. Be it pro or newbie. We don't need big events or big names to build a portfolio. A good photographer can shoot me running and make me look like Ursain Bolt (Im not saying I look like him though!). We just need to practise more anytime anywhere.

    And I also believe TS is sincere in getting a group together. I'm not so concern about linking with SSC or any other sporting bodies. I just hope we can have a group of sport enthusiasts to shoot beside one another rather than I'm shooting alone at a sport complex somewhere. Its more fun this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jed View Post
    It's curious you mention Michael Phelps, because that was the last big name I tried to go after.
    Besides photography, I also love swimming. And Michael just popped in mind.
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    Default Re: Sports Photography: Anyone interested to join this interest Group?

    What Jed perceived is a fair argument, there are always 2 sides to the story. I am not a full-time staff with them nor do I do job for them exclusively, people in there change all the time.The onus is on individuals who are willling to participate to decide whether they are being exploited or not and the door is always open to step out, myself included.

    Jed's input, he seems to be based in UK? So I guess the 2012 Olympics would be just anotehr event which one need not be too excited about. So you would pass the chance to shoot it?

    Agree, I am sure one can shoot great pictures in games at any level, just as one can watch great games at any level. So I wonder why people pay lots of money for the premier league games or the world cup? Likewise, you can shoot great bird pictures at the bird park, why bother to go into the wild to look for them. For the matter you caould also fish in your very own aquarium or pond to strecth it haha.....sure to get one if you stop feeding them for a while.

    As I mentioned, I am not expanding my list for now, thanks for all the interest.

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