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Thread: Will Apple enter camera market?

  1. #41
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by mogwai View Post
    They even changed the portable gaming market. Sightings of aunties and uncles (unlikely portable gamers) playing games on their iphones on the MRT/ bus are now commonplace.
    Actually, I see PSP everyhere. Not iphones gaming.

    And no, I do not own a iphone, ipad, imac. All I have is an old ipod mini that I seldom use, since I listen to music from my Nokia phone mostly. And yes, I have tried the iphone, imac, and ipods... Impressed with some, but not impressed with some of Apple's products.

    Market swaying? for some products yes. But not for everything they make. Not because all their products are good. But they have a strong marketing team, and a user base that is akin to fanatics. It's a cult man.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 16th July 2010 at 05:33 PM.

  2. #42
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    from what iSee, iThink it would be coming soon, but not from apple, yet

    a re think on what a camera is
    and user experience

    my iPhone has PS in it, i see, i shoot, i edit and i post, all with one small device
    Last edited by ortega; 16th July 2010 at 05:34 PM.

  3. #43
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    imagine an iPad with a camera

    if can mount lens and bellows, it will become a large format camera

  4. #44

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by wdEvA View Post
    yes, i think there will be an iSnap!

    Gen1: iSnap 8mp, no optical zoom, no touch screen lcd (white/black) (4gb internal memory) (Built-in battery)
    Gen2: iSnap 8mp, optical zoom, no touch screen (white/black) (4gb internal memory) (Built-in battery)
    Gen2s: iSnap 12mp, optical zoom, no touch screen (white/black) (4gb/8gb internal memory) (Built-in battery)
    Gen3: iSnap 15mp, optical zoom, touch screen (white/black) (4gb/8gb/16gb internal memory) (Built-in battery)
    Gen3s: iSnap 15mp, optical zoom, touch screen (white/black) (4gb/8gb/16gb internal memory) (Built-in battery) (improved ISO performance)
    Gen4: iSnap 18mp, optical zoom, touch screen (white/black) (8gb/16gb/32gb internal memory) (Built-in battery)
    Gen4s: iSnap 18mp, optical zoom, touch screen (white/black) (8gb/16gb/32gb internal memory) (Built-in battery) (VGA Recording capabilities)
    Gen5: iSnap 18mp, optical zoom, touch screen (white/black) (16gb/32gb internal memory) (Built-in battery) (720p recording capabilites)
    Gen5s: iSnap 18mp, optical zoom, touch screen (white/black) (16gb/32gb internal memory)
    (Improved manual video control)
    Gen6: iSnap 18mp, inter-changable lens, touch screen (white/black) (16gb/32gb internal memory) (1080p recording capabilities)
    Maybe Steve Jobs is looking at your post now. lol who knows it could trigger some insights to his R&D team. What about iOwn mobile edition whereby you can mount tripod/external flash to the phone and shoot? When they come out with Lenses for their DSLR, I hope it would be macbook white. or macbook pro steel. Well, i guess they would start revolutionising KIT LENSES!!! by using a more solid plastic! and by selling them with their trademark colours! with an APPLE lens cap

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Have you even seen the "Umama"?

    Kind of make me think of the stand up comedies I watched... "Yo ma ma so fat...."

    Hats off to the product managers in OSIM. Well done!
    SPARTANS!!

  5. #45

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    from what iSee, iThink it would be coming soon, but not from apple, yet

    a re think on what a camera is
    and user experience

    my iPhone has PS in it, i see, i shoot, i edit and i post, all with one small device
    PS is exploring webbased app for now. i'm not surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    imagine an iPad with a camera

    if can mount lens and bellows, it will become a large format camera
    Imagine a USB speedlites, USB lens mount. just that it would be live view when u zoom or change focus. Imagine a pinch digital zoom just to correct your manual focus... that would be ubergay on the ipad.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    with MOBILE ME.. maybe u shoot , straight the photos upload to your house computer.. straight post on clubsnap...

    its possible for steve jobs to create iCam, probably after the phone market...
    Think fast, aim for the best !

  7. #47

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    The case of Creative versus Ipod is really a marketing and value positioning issue. Creative missed the point to focus on technical superiority in its products and confused the market with the unlimited number of Zens , Nuvos and Nomads players.

    Apple's IPOD effectively convinced consumers that their player is a form of lifestyle , the cool touch spin controls , cool, sleek minimalist concept won the hearts of the market eventually.

    Hence, in my view , the success of Apple , is really a matter of them applying the basic principle of focusing on trends and lifestyle , rather than focusing on product.

    Now in terms of camera design , it is technically difficult to create a cool way to use a camera. There is absolutely no point to put a lens onto a small sensor camera and call it cool.

    The mainstream DSLR users are driven to use one purely from a technical and product functionality perspectively. Shutter speed control , DOF control, better dynamic range , which adds to getting better picture IQ.

    A small sensor camera will find it difficult to achieve the able aims.

    WHat will be more feasible is what some CS bros have mentioned already, to improve on the exisiting Iphone cams. If the Iphone can mimick a conventional PnS , they will pose as a signficant threat to the PnS space.

    For a start maybe a F2 lens with 18-55mm zoom on the iphone will be gd enough to kill
    Alpha and Omega

  8. #48

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Actually, I see PSP everyhere. Not iphones gaming.

    And no, I do not own a iphone, ipad, imac. All I have is an old ipod mini that I seldom use, since I listen to music from my Nokia phone mostly. And yes, I have tried the iphone, imac, and ipods... Impressed with some, but not impressed with some of Apple's products.

    Market swaying? for some products yes. But not for everything they make. Not because all their products are good. But they have a strong marketing team, and a user base that is akin to fanatics. It's a cult man.
    yes, i see PSP and Nintendo DS are still the mainstay but the idea i was conveying is that the 'usual' people who are considered gamers have shifted with iphone/ itouch gaming. now the people who wouldn't in their lifetime think of owning a PSP or nintendo are now playing games on their iphones/ itouch - just like the ones playing facebook games.

    and here's a little statistics about the apps downloaded for iphones up till the 500million mark - games are on top.
    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2009/01/...has-it-peaked/

    and way back in 2008, the iphone/ itouch were already positioned to take on the gaming market.
    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/...-and-nintendo/

    of course, no one buys an iphone for gaming. but who buys an iphone because it's a good phone? it's not - still complaints about its reception, difficulty making calls, sms. but it's selling. and unlike sony or nintendo, it doesn't have to sell it's handsets at a loss. (it's widely accepted in the industry that sony loses money for every playstation sold but makes it back by selling games).

    it's true, there's an apple cult following. but there are converts. only a product this good and 'life-changing'/ 'market-changing'/ 'user-changing' (whatever u wanna call it) can reach out to that many converts.

    it's not just looks. right now, i'm typing this on my apple laptop which has been with me since 2003. it's on all the time - i probably shut it down once every few months. it doesn't slow down due to memory stacks, it hasn't broken down and i have never needed to run an anti-virus on it. even though apple isn't yet dominating the laptop market, but they did change people's expectations from a laptop or from other brands. hmm...that, in itself is market-changing.

  9. #49
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by mogwai View Post
    ...it's not just looks. right now, i'm typing this on my apple laptop which has been with me since 2003. it's on all the time - i probably shut it down once every few months. it doesn't slow down due to memory stacks, it hasn't broken down and i have never needed to run an anti-virus on it. even though apple isn't yet dominating the laptop market, but they did change people's expectations from a laptop or from other brands. hmm...that, in itself is market-changing.
    You should see the newer apple laptops. crashes like crazy as well. Failure rates for hardware is about par to other laptops as well. In terms of OS, I can tell you right off that there are better OSes out there that work better with less problems (think Linux). In fact current macOS is based on Linux/Unix, just that it is not free and proprietary. So in the end, much of the answer lies in product positioning and a whole lot of marketing.

    Is it a surprise that apple OS seems to be popular in end-user consumer machines and hardly in commercial and server applications? Hmmmm....
    Last edited by daredevil123; 17th July 2010 at 05:13 PM.

  10. #50
    Deregistered wootsk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Maybe apple can try to dive into the PNS market first and try getting apple fanatics and fan- boys to hip up the sales and brainwash their friends, aunty and uncle how cool a ICamera is. For those who don't understand much about the subject can get "brainwashed" by the influence and sale will go up due to demand.

    Nowadays, it is all about marketing. Look at how smart singtel is about marketing when they read singaporean minds and understand their demands. They made loads of money with IPhone first gen. After buying, consumer finding it having problem with screen. They release second generation with screen fixed and later the laggy third generation. Lastly 3GS for a more stable platfrom. Imagine the amount of money made when people cross over to singtel because of IPhone and the constant new version mostly for fixing errors made.

    BTW, for general knowledge, does those who buy IPad and IPhone knows that they can NEVER view a flash website or have a update or apps to allow flash? It is also listed in the SDK for apple's Terms of Service. In short you cannot have a nice dynamic website for your photo portfolio shown in a IPad. HTML5 cannot create the same dynamic feel flash produce either.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10092298
    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/11/adobe-flash-on/
    http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/ga...-agreement.pdf
    Last edited by wootsk; 17th July 2010 at 10:51 PM.

  11. #51
    Deregistered wootsk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Ever wonder whats the reason I don't support apple? Because I am techie and apple products have high restriction and almost nothing is open source or editable. They seal it so tight that the only way for repair is to send it back and get it replaced. If you are using a pc, you can build it on your own, choose your OS. I even took out the rom of a IBM thinkpad to crack the supervisor password as it is stored on rom to prevent password from resetting by taking out the bios battery.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    bcuz apple wants to OWN... that's why they don't let you customise as freely as pc. which is why more room for viruses for pc. maybe Ipad 2 onwards with iphone4 os flash would be available.

  13. #53
    Deregistered wootsk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPa1adin View Post
    bcuz apple wants to OWN... that's why they don't let you customise as freely as pc. which is why more room for viruses for pc.
    Nah, you can get a linux OS and the chances of infection is even lower than apple. The reason why win OS is more often targetted is because most of the people are using win OS and thus it is better to write a trojan targeting win OS for stealing important data. If most of the people are using mac OS, people will start writing trojan targetting mac OS. Customising are more of hardware... Please read more indepth IT documents rather than reviews and on the surface facts from magazines.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPa1adin View Post
    maybe Ipad 2 onwards with iphone4 os flash would be available.
    So you mean people need to spend more on a new IPad when new OS is out. That is ridiculous. If you read the news, IPhone 4 is selling at a price of SGD 4K in singapore. http://www.mobinauts.com/index.php?a...&f=29&t=111850
    If you count the total cost a apple fanboy start getting the first edition of every IPhone launched in singapore because if fixing errors and newer OS, the cost is
    Last edited by wootsk; 18th July 2010 at 09:37 AM.

  14. #54
    Senior Member UncleFai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Atarandas View Post
    Now in terms of camera design , it is technically difficult to create a cool way to use a camera. There is absolutely no point to put a lens onto a small sensor camera and call it cool.

    The mainstream DSLR users are driven to use one purely from a technical and product functionality perspectively. Shutter speed control , DOF control, better dynamic range , which adds to getting better picture IQ.
    Well, as people so eloquently argued in another thread, photography is about the photographer, not the equipment. A skilled photographer can make art with the least technical and functional equipment.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Is it a surprise that apple OS seems to be popular in end-user consumer machines and hardly in commercial and server applications? Hmmmm....
    actually, for one, apple OS is not designed primarily for server applications. second, they aren't bothered to be in that market segment - folk like NEC, IBM, HP want to continue to do so because they can continue selling cheap plastic (look at the end-terminals they make). third, current big institutions/ companies don't want to change because it'll mean changing a lot of their end-terminals too. every single computer hooked up to the system will need to change (and 1stly, apple doesn't want to go into this market segment).

    on the last point, one example recently, a government (not singapore) agency actually got sued and lost the suit because they went with microsoft-based network without tendering the contract. no, apple wasn't one of the alternative parties interested in tendering for the job.

    anyway, if apple doesn't change markets, then how come by the time they start selling something, everybody wants to copy them? MS windows appearance nowadays look more and more like....yups, apple OS. MP3 players begin to look more and more like...yups, apples. after the 1st imac or the 1st white ibook, all-in-one pcs and laptops look like apples. even now with ipads (even if it's not the perfect tablet computer), we can already find 3 or 4 ipad-look-alikes.

    OT-ed quite a bit but in any case, they may or may not enter the camera market. however, if they do, yes, i'm sure they'll change consumer perceptions and the market segment (likely compact PnS as many mentioned here) they step into.

  16. #56
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by mogwai View Post
    actually, for one, apple OS is not designed primarily for server applications. second, they aren't bothered to be in that market segment - folk like NEC, IBM, HP want to continue to do so because they can continue selling cheap plastic (look at the end-terminals they make). third, current big institutions/ companies don't want to change because it'll mean changing a lot of their end-terminals too. every single computer hooked up to the system will need to change (and 1stly, apple doesn't want to go into this market segment).
    Apple never ever try for the server market? You must be mistaken. They did, but crashed and burned. That is why they don't bother now, because they KNOW they cannot penetrate.

    Servers from NEC, IBM and HP are cheap plastic? The world's networks are running on these servers (including Dell and Sun, but Sun has been losing fans for years). Hate to break it to you, the internals of the consumer grade computers from these brands, are manufactured by the same companies that manufacture the stuff inside your apple laptops/towers/desktops. Most parts are shared. Manufacturers are the same.

    You must not be a person working in the technology field. That may explain your ignorance in the computer industry.

    on the last point, one example recently, a government (not singapore) agency actually got sued and lost the suit because they went with microsoft-based network without tendering the contract. no, apple wasn't one of the alternative parties interested in tendering for the job.
    That was a problem with not doing tenders in the proper process flow. What has that got to do with the quality of equipment of Apple or Windows? Hardware and OS are separate, BTW. I can install macOS on the machines, or windows, or linux (different flavors too). But hardware can be the same. So what's the beef about Microsoft? I don't like MS either, but it is totally unrelated to the issue we are discussing now.

    anyway, if apple doesn't change markets, then how come by the time they start selling something, everybody wants to copy them? MS windows appearance nowadays look more and more like....yups, apple OS. MP3 players begin to look more and more like...yups, apples. after the 1st imac or the 1st white ibook, all-in-one pcs and laptops look like apples. even now with ipads (even if it's not the perfect tablet computer), we can already find 3 or 4 ipad-look-alikes.
    I said before, and I will say again. They do not change markets. The markets are already there. They just made their product more "sexy" and have a very strong marketing team. Look at how the ipod and imac was launched (back in the day). Severe shortages. Why? Not because the products were so hot they were out of stock. But stock was severely under forecasted. Production issues , claimed apple, causing supply to be low. There are many in the industry accusing Apple of deliberately under-stocking, so as to create the hype and appearance of high demand.

    Look at iphone. Was it ground breaking? IMHO No. smart phones have been around. iPhone was just an evolution from other products like HTC smart phones. Was the ipod ground breaking? No. It was just an MP3 player. The folks doing the ground breaking for MP3 players were the Koreans (iRiver) and Rio (which went out of business). The only thing thing that was good about the original ipod was the touch control wheel.

    This one thing I give to Apple. They are very good at UI design, packaging, and overall coolness factor in the looks department. And they earned it, going to great extents to achieve that.

    You might ask me how I know so much about Apple. Well, I have to tell you honestly: I cannot tell you why and how I know so much. I just can say I probably know a lot more about Apple than you think. But I can't say too much. NDAs are involved.

    OT-ed quite a bit but in any case, they may or may not enter the camera market. however, if they do, yes, i'm sure they'll change consumer perceptions and the market segment (likely compact PnS as many mentioned here) they step into.
    You have your views and I have mine. I still think they will not because they know they will do badly if they try to enter the optics/imaging market.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 18th July 2010 at 03:17 PM.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    something to lighten the mood... I guess Apple wouldnt need to enter the cam market...

    iPhone Fashion Shoot


  18. #58
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Actually, Apple's strategy is pretty much summarized by Atarandas here:


    Quote Originally Posted by Atarandas View Post
    Apple's IPOD effectively convinced consumers that their player is a form of lifestyle , the cool touch spin controls , cool, sleek minimalist concept won the hearts of the market eventually.

    Hence, in my view , the success of Apple , is really a matter of them applying the basic principle of focusing on trends and lifestyle , rather than focusing on product.

  19. #59
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by dingzyangz View Post
    something to lighten the mood... I guess Apple wouldnt need to enter the cam market...

    iPhone Fashion Shoot

    LOL.. yes bro. I saw that. I think the massive work done in DI helped a lot!

  20. #60

    Default Re: Will Apple enter camera market?

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    LOL.. yes bro. I saw that. I think the massive work done in DI helped a lot!
    LOL nice video. But the Olympus bashing bit is perhaps over done haha

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFai View Post
    Well, as people so eloquently argued in another thread, photography is about the photographer, not the equipment. A skilled photographer can make art with the least technical and functional equipment.
    Agree fully . But we need to be sensitive to the market segmentisation in the consumer camera market. In the professional space, I really do not see any upside for Apple to come in at all.
    Perhaps in the PnS segment, there is some possibility. However, what else can they do and provide innovation to challenge the existing camera Giants ?

    Innovative user interface ? Perhaps we can adjust shutter speed and apperture like how we zoom in and out on Iphone. Thats possible , but that technology is going to come real expensive as they probably have to buy patents to camera user interfaces from other manufacturers.

    What about components and device design ? How can they innovate and break mould of existing PnS cameras ?

    Having considered all these elements , I still think the best bet for Apple is to implement all those improvements on their Iphone. Using the iphone as an integrated device ( phone , camera , video , PDA , email , web browser) , to redefine consumer and individual lifestyle.

    No point going backwards , to make the iphone into a dedicated device and start attaching lens to it right ?
    Last edited by Atarandas; 18th July 2010 at 08:04 PM.
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