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Thread: Monitor Calibration

  1. #1

    Default Monitor Calibration

    I purchased an Acer desktop + Monitor solely for photo editing purpose....no internet connection, hence it's challenging to hook up internet to the desktop for an online monitor calibration

    Found out that when I edit on my Acer monitor, the color space is slightly different when I view the edited pics on another laptop / dekstop / website. Pics are not bright (but when viewed on Acer monitor is fine)...etc etc

    Initially wanted to get a Phillips monitor cos its IPS panel but was advised by salesperson that LCD monitor is just as fine and will last longer as well.

    My question is, can someone be very kind-hearted enough to guide me through step by step on how to calibrate my Acer monitor or provide tips on ensuring whatever I edit on my Acer monitor, will be the same color management as in prints & if viewed on other laptops / desktops / website? Many thanks!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    ...just to add...am using Adobe Elements actually for my basic editing....

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by snapsnap79 View Post
    I purchased an Acer desktop + Monitor solely for photo editing purpose....no internet connection, hence it's challenging to hook up internet to the desktop for an online monitor calibration

    Found out that when I edit on my Acer monitor, the color space is slightly different when I view the edited pics on another laptop / dekstop / website. Pics are not bright (but when viewed on Acer monitor is fine)...etc etc

    Initially wanted to get a Phillips monitor cos its IPS panel but was advised by salesperson that LCD monitor is just as fine and will last longer as well.

    My question is, can someone be very kind-hearted enough to guide me through step by step on how to calibrate my Acer monitor or provide tips on ensuring whatever I edit on my Acer monitor, will be the same color management as in prints & if viewed on other laptops / desktops / website? Many thanks!
    Check your color space setting on your camera and PCs. For a photographer, minimum color space setting should be Adobe RGB or better (Pro Photo RGB). Your camera ( I presume is Nikon) color space default setting is sRGB. sRGB has a narrow range of color as compare to Adobe RGB.
    sRGB ; with its narrower gamut color space extends lesser into the Red and Green range and not so much different in the blue range.



    For the above example, I converted the Adobe RGB to sRGB (right picture), you can see that sRGB has lost color depth in Red and Green color. This will happen when your 2nd PC software is set to sRGB to open a Adobe RGB.

    Change your camera's color space setting to Adobe RGB and do the same for your PCs. For printing, make sure you use the same photo image resolution to match the printer.

    Using sRGB to do editing will result in color clipping and losing color resolution each time you edited and saved the jpeg files. Using Adobe RGB will give you more room for editing.

    Also check your PCs monitors to ensure they have same brightness setting and use the hardware calibration tool if you want to achieve a perfect color management.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    hi kutten...thankz for your useful info....

    im not tat tech avvy but some questions...

    1) is there a diff between Adobe RGB, sRGB & RGB?
    2) my 50d has only RGB setting...is it by default or can I change it to Adobe RGB or sRGB?
    3) how do i change my PC's color space setting to Adobe RGB, sRGB & RGB?

    appreciate your kind advise....many thankz

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by snapsnap79 View Post
    hi kutten...thankz for your useful info....

    im not tat tech avvy but some questions...

    1) is there a diff between Adobe RGB, sRGB & RGB?
    2) my 50d has only RGB setting...is it by default or can I change it to Adobe RGB or sRGB?
    3) how do i change my PC's color space setting to Adobe RGB, sRGB & RGB?

    appreciate your kind advise....many thankz
    1) There are lots of debate over color spaces to decide which is better, you can google "Adobe RGB vs sRGB" to find out more. Ken Rockwell thinks sRGB is better and others prefer Adobe RGB or Pro Photo RGB. Decide what is your requirement and set your own preference.
    If you shoot in RAW, you don't have to worry about this, and only when converts to Jpeg then you decide which color space you want. Read this...

    http://www.e-cobo.com/design_tips/ph...gb_vs_srgb.php

    2) Canon 50D does have Adobe RGB setting, I don't use Canon so I can't advise you on this.

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08...anoneos50d.asp

    3) Change your color management profile in your editing program.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    referring to your question 3, I am trying to avoid you changing the color space of your PC without knowing your actual problem. I would suggest you align your color space between your two PC's and camera. make sure the editing programs between the two PCs has similar color space profile.

    to change your PC color space : control panel --> personalization --> display setting --> advanced setting --> color management --> advanced --> device profile.
    (I won't advice you to change this, as this may cause problem when edited photos are looking good on your system but not when posted on the web, Photoshop element should be able to assign the color management).

    to calibrate your Monitor, you can try this free one

    http://www.calibrize.com/

    or buy the hardware colorimeter like spyder 2

    http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...abordable.html

    Color Space is a 3D representation of a device's gamut defined by its own ICC (International Color Consortium) profile. The problem with RGB number are ambiguous and they depends on devices we have, only when we associate the ICC profile with the RGB number, the color then got the specified meaning :

    i.e Color == RGB + ICC profile
    with the ICC profile,the RED color is now defiend as R: 255 G:0 B:0 and X:43 Y: 22 Z:1.
    It is a 3 dimensional gamut, if the photo is not associated with ICC, it is missing with the XYZ information.


    See what happen when the photo is not saved with ICC profile


    Remember, color management is ambiguous but you decide the color profiles to match the color space from source to destination, and profiling allows us to define the device values and make it unambiguously. It is you are making the decision and not the device color management. Find out your destination (Web posting ? other editing programs whether they accept the source color space, other devices .. e.t.c) requirement and you convert to new color space to meet the destination requirement.

    For example, if you import a photo from the scanner through Photoshop, the photo displayed on your screen will be embedded with scanner color profile, you can change color profile in Photoshop to other profile for editing purpose (i.e through assign profile, or convert to profile), and when you want to print, you select the printer profile or assign photoshop or printer to manage color profile. It is complicated and normally I don't care unless it is so much color different from source to destination.

    see.. here is the problem
    http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724793

    I normally shoot in RAW, setup my editing program color space with Pro Photo RGB and converted to CMYK for commercial printing, RGB for web posting and Adobe RGB for my system. ( That's why I always keep a back up for RAW files)

    Hope this help.
    Last edited by kutten; 8th July 2010 at 11:03 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    Something to note:

    Not all browsers respect/read color profiles or color space embedded on your jpeg. Most will just blindly read all jpegs as sRGB or Applies a predefined profile to all jpegs . (correctly if i'm wrong in theory here but just know that many browsers mess up this part)

    Reference:
    http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_...Gprofiles.html

    Best to stick to sRGB for the web. But my Firefox does manage color

    Many websites do agree that sRGB is the only way to go for web images
    Last edited by weaponx; 10th July 2010 at 11:00 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    get a spyder.

    i prefer embedding icc profiles.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by kutten View Post
    Check your color space setting on your camera and PCs. For a photographer, minimum color space setting should be Adobe RGB or better (Pro Photo RGB). Your camera ( I presume is Nikon) color space default setting is sRGB. sRGB has a narrow range of color as compare to Adobe RGB.
    sRGB ; with its narrower gamut color space extends lesser into the Red and Green range and not so much different in the blue range.



    For the above example, I converted the Adobe RGB to sRGB (right picture), you can see that sRGB has lost color depth in Red and Green color. This will happen when your 2nd PC software is set to sRGB to open a Adobe RGB.

    Change your camera's color space setting to Adobe RGB and do the same for your PCs. For printing, make sure you use the same photo image resolution to match the printer.

    Using sRGB to do editing will result in color clipping and losing color resolution each time you edited and saved the jpeg files. Using Adobe RGB will give you more room for editing.

    Also check your PCs monitors to ensure they have same brightness setting and use the hardware calibration tool if you want to achieve a perfect color management.
    Upon downloading your picture, it appears that this picture is in the sRGB space, which means both left and right are in the sRGB space and it cannot be that the left is Adobe RGB, right is sRGB. The only way to do that is to have 2 separate pictures, 2 separate files

    I think you made a mistake in your conversion. Upon playing around with the image myself it seems what you have done is taken an Adobe RGB photo (Left) and assigned an sRGB profile to it (Right). This is not a conversion, this is assigning the wrong profile to the image which in turn causes reproduction of the wrong colours. Finally saving it in the sRGB space.

    In photoshop you should not use Assign Profile but instead use Convert to Profile which utilizes a mathematical formula for interpolation/rounding off. In turn it should produce an image that when view on an LCD screen should not be obviously different.

    Frankly Adobe RGB and sRGB has not much difference when viewed from an LCD monitor, unless your monitor has super wide colour gamut. The example above does not demonstrate Adobe RGB vs sRGB.

    My 2 cents, i'm also a noob
    Last edited by weaponx; 10th July 2010 at 04:55 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    Here's a true example of Adobe RGB vs sRGB

    (YOU MUST VIEW THIS IN THE LATEST VERSION OF FIREFOX or SARAFI or else other browsers will mess up the embedded profile and the Adobe RGB colors will be off)

    Adobe RGB on TOP sRGB below:


    You should not see an obvious difference. If you do see a difference that is because your browser is not managing the Adobe RGB profile correctly.
    Last edited by weaponx; 10th July 2010 at 05:06 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by weaponx View Post
    Upon downloading your picture, it appears that this picture is in the sRGB space, which means both left and right are in the sRGB space and it cannot be that the left is Adobe RGB, right is sRGB. The only way to do that is to have 2 separate pictures, 2 separate files

    I think you made a mistake in your conversion. Upon playing around with the image myself it seems what you have done is taken an Adobe RGB photo (Left) and assigned an sRGB profile to it (Right). This is not a conversion, this is assigning the wrong profile to the image which in turn causes reproduction of the wrong colours. Finally saving it in the sRGB space.

    In photoshop you should not use Assign Profile but instead use Convert to Profile which utilizes a mathematical formula for interpolation/rounding off. In turn it should produce an image that when view on an LCD screen should not be obviously different.
    nice piece of investigative work
    Quote Originally Posted by weaponx View Post
    Here's a true example of Adobe RGB vs sRGB

    You should not see an obvious difference. If you do see a difference that is because your browser is not managing the Adobe RGB profile correctly.
    for the photographic image of the ladies with the instrument, no significant shift (there is some small shift in some of the more saturated colours, eg. the plastic flowers of the caucasian women's head and the kimono lose abit of saturation in the sRGB version), but for the colour chart, the sRGB version should be noticably less saturated for some of the colours, especially visible in the primary and secondary colour spots... Adobe RGB is a larger colour gamut than sRGB so the differences would be more obvious at the extremes of colour but not at all for the less saturated tones where the colour gamuts overlap (for the most part, depending on rendering intent)... YMMV

  12. #12

    Default Re: Monitor Calibration

    sorry...was on a trip & just got back....wow, thanks a lot bro for the truly comprehensive information....will digest it and try it...again, many thanks for your guidance

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