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Thread: competition entries are non-returnable

  1. #1

    Default competition entries are non-returnable

    All entries will become the property of the organisers who reserve the rights to use them for any purpose and in any manner they deem fit, without payment of any fee or prior notification.

    Just wandering if this is the usual practice or a proper manner?
    San Francisco Bay Area California Wedding Photographer
    www.thisisitphotograpy.com

  2. #2
    ClubSNAP Admin Darren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agila
    All entries will become the property of the organisers who reserve the rights to use them for any purpose and in any manner they deem fit, without payment of any fee or prior notification.

    Just wandering if this is the usual practice or a proper manner?
    This practice is becoming more prevalent and its up to us photographers to resist taking part in such competitions as, basically, you lose all rights to the image the moment its submitted. We have seen instances where competitions are held with the primary purpose of obtaining stock images for their future usage.

    There's no right or wrong about this since the rules are clearly spelled out and all we can do is to discourage photographers from taking part in competitions that have this one-sided clause.

  3. #3

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    its up to the org....but normally they will pay if they use ya photos....normally they only charge to return the photos...

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren
    competitions are held with the primary purpose of obtaining stock images for their future usage.
    yup!. this is the cheapest way of obtaining stock images... all they have to do is to give a hundred dollars and the rest of the price will come from sponsors....
    but some competition claiming their rights only on the *Winning* photos for a particular period of time..
    San Francisco Bay Area California Wedding Photographer
    www.thisisitphotograpy.com

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agila
    All entries will become the property of the organisers who reserve the rights to use them for any purpose and in any manner they deem fit, without payment of any fee or prior notification.

    Just wandering if this is the usual practice or a proper manner?
    Also not sure about this clause...

    Does the consideration of "a chance to win the price" makes the photos taken by us, theirs?

  6. #6

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    at least a good credit or prior notification to the photographer is good enough before they use it...
    San Francisco Bay Area California Wedding Photographer
    www.thisisitphotograpy.com

  7. #7
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    that's why i can't be bothered about photo competitions, because everything will become someone else's intellectual property.

    besides, my shots are still crummy...

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    Also not sure about this clause...

    Does the consideration of "a chance to win the price" makes the photos taken by us, theirs?
    & I guess it can be argued that the photos that you submitted can be used to generate more income for the company. Thus, they should give you something in return for your work. But in S'pore, it's the "no-U-turn" syndrome again... we take it as they have the legal right to use our photos without giving us something in return; besides the "hope" of winning. Thus not pursuing the matter any further. Sad... Sad...

  9. #9
    vince123123
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    I don't think that consideration is going to be a good point to invalidate the agreement, although each case may differ on its facts. Assuming that the agreement is valid and binding, the participants can't really complain. However, there is a difference between allowing the organisers to use the photos and the IP actually going to the organisers (re: sehsuan's post).

    another complication that may arise is if the organisers sell your photo to another company, does the second company have the right to use it?

    like what the rest has said, steer clear from organisations with such clauses.

    Quote Originally Posted by AReality
    & I guess it can be argued that the photos that you submitted can be used to generate more income for the company. Thus, they should give you something in return for your work. But in S'pore, it's the "no-U-turn" syndrome again... we take it as they have the legal right to use our photos without giving us something in return; besides the "hope" of winning. Thus not pursuing the matter any further. Sad... Sad...

  10. #10

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    Try to read the terms and conditions carefully before entering the contests, and check out the organizing committee and sponsors to see if there's a chance of your images being exploited commercially. Usually I avoid entering such events that mascarade as photo contests just to rip off photographers (not to say my photos are masterpieces lah... ).

    Good photo contest organizers usually request that they be allowed to use the images for promotional purposes pertaining to the contest and future publicity. That means that they will not use it for purposes not related to the contest or future years of the contest. I'm totally fine with this approach, but not those that request for unconditional release of copyrights.

  11. #11
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    this is taken from the S-League's Photo Comp.
    http://www.sleague.com/get10.asp

    "The organisers reserve the right to reproduce the images submitted in the catalogues, or use it for publicity and exhibition purposes, without payment of any fees to the authors for a period of 2 years. Prize-winning entries as well as acceptances will be scanned by the organisers for archival and exhibition purposes."

    i'd think this is a more acceptable T&C...

  12. #12

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    The National Library Board had the same rules too. They kept all the photos submitted for the competition. Photographic Society of Singapore (PSS) assisted the NLB in this competition. Tried to get back my photos but PSS said that its up to NLB. So much for a professional photo body in Singapore.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by sehsuan
    that's why i can't be bothered about photo competitions, because everything will become someone else's intellectual property.

    besides, my shots are still crummy...
    actually the real reason to dont bother about photo competitions is

    1. the entries all look the same pattern one. very cliche.

    2. whatever photo we r talkign about: i like means i like. u like means u like. i dont like means i dont like. u dont like means u dont like. and who really cares if he, she, it, tom, dick, harry, like or not.

    ;-)

  14. #14
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    it may be troublesome to bother the organizers to "return" the photo to you by deleting them if it was digital.

    photography is subjective enough, still want to subject it to further subjection?

    best to relax and just keep on churning out stuff you are personally proud of

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingpin
    The National Library Board had the same rules too. They kept all the photos submitted for the competition. Photographic Society of Singapore (PSS) assisted the NLB in this competition. Tried to get back my photos but PSS said that its up to NLB. So much for a professional photo body in Singapore.

    You are confused buddy the PSS is not a profession photo body nor do they hold themself to be one. Actually heard from people who organise these things the bloody returning of prints is a pain in A. Anyways the assumption is that there is a lot of wonderful photos being submitted truth is that normally there are a lot of low low grade photos submitted, with a low percentage of good photos.

  16. #16

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    Below's rule is Fair and square... Photographer's right is well protected..

    Taken from Asian Geographic - Nikon Photogrpahy contest 2004...

    10. Copyright of images remain with the photographer. However, the organiser, Nikon and Epson reserve the right to free reproduction and exhibition in all media (now known or hereafter created), inclusive of the internet, of prize-winning entries, for promotion and publicity of Nikon, Epson and this competition for a period of TWO years.
    11. All pictures are sent at the photographers’ risk, and the organisers regret that they cannot accept liability for any loss or damage occurring to any pictures entered in the competition (howsoever caused) nor for any other loss or damage resulting therefrom.
    12. RETURN OF ENTRIES: images will only be returned if entrants provide a stamped self- addressed envelope. For international competitors, please include international reply coupons.


    Quote Originally Posted by insomia
    Actually heard from people who organise these things the bloody returning of prints is a pain in A.
    this would be their responsibility as organizer....

    Quote Originally Posted by insomia
    Anyways the assumption is that there is a lot of wonderful photos being submitted truth is that normally there are a lot of low low grade photos submitted, with a low percentage of good photos.
    We are not talking about the quality of the photos here, we are talking here about OUR rights as the owner of the photograph...

    Well at the end of the day, we are just talking... nobody will do something about it.
    San Francisco Bay Area California Wedding Photographer
    www.thisisitphotograpy.com

  17. #17
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    1 Photographer's right

    When I sit in organising committee, I will make sure that the rights remains with the photographer. However, for the purpose of promoting the competition and its intention (like publising a catalog/book/exhibition), the organiser should have to right to use the winning and selected (accepted) photos with credits given to the photographers.

    It is not right for any organisation to retain the full rights to the photos upon submitting for the competition. I personally will not take part in anyway to such competitions. I won't even take part in those that need to submit with negatives. Acceptable if only prize winning entries submit negatives. But than, it may not be an easy job for organisers to collect negative on a later date.

    2) Return of prints

    Well, for digital entries, how to return? Probably the organiser just keep it in a CD ROM. As for hard copy prints, after every competition is concluded, that include exhibition, notices should be send to participants to collect their prints by a certain date of 3 - 6 months. But, my experience is some ppl are very particular about collecting back their prints but some don't bother to collect. Suprisingly is those who collect are newbies and some regulars in competitions(they can submit to others). Those who don't collect are those that we see very often at the club, they keep saying later later until everyone forgotten.

  18. #18

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    Let's not get mixed up here. Returning of prints is a pain for many organizers, because some photographers take their own sweet time to collect, which means the organizers may have a darn hard time returning the prints. So if there's no return of the prints, and it's clearly stated, I'm fine with the regulation, if I'm keen enough to take part.

    BUT what irks a lot of us here, is that the rules are so vague or unreasonable, that they virtually retain the copyrights of the image. That is a big for many of us, since it may trigger off a spat of pseudo-contests aimed at gathering images for commercial exploitation.

  19. #19

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    hmm..to me the print isn't that important. main thing is still the copyright, the rights to ur photographs.

    "All entries will become the property of the organisers who reserve the rights to use them for any purpose and in any manner they deem fit, without payment of any fee or prior notification."

    one qns i have to raise here, does the organisers of the competition really have exclusive rights to ur photos just by stating a simple line in their terms and conditions?

    if we look at it as a contract, the clause would not be binding. one important element of contract is not present, and that is consideration. the clause would be pretty much the same as saying "as long as u invite me into ur store, everything i see in this shop belongs to me, without me paying for anything".

    i would dare any organiser to dispute the rights of any photographer whose photographs were not selected and not being imbursed.

    since singapore is under the common law system, i would love to see any judge pass a case law giving us photographers our fairness regarding such terms and conditions.

    ~MooEy~

  20. #20

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    In my opinion, rights to the photographs are important to the photographer. But let's say if you are paid about $5000 for it, I think we will most prob gladly give up the rights for the photo. So I think in short, it depends on what we get in return for a good photo we took that matters. That is in competition context I mean.

    Hope I make sense.

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