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Thread: Filters and set up

  1. #21
    Member DrSpock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by cumzball View Post
    Thanks DrSpock!!!
    Mind if i ask how much did the Lee starter kit set u back? i was considering start kit as well. you can PM me the price if it's not convenient to mention price here.

    So what u are trying to say here is i should get the biggest ring from Lee and get cheaper step up rings to attach it to my lenses that are small in size?

    Pardon me, getting abit confused....
    Hi cumzball, I actually started using the Tianya set(<$100) for a while until I decided to hunt for the Lee one from the B&S for quite a while b4 I got a good set. A new one may cost >$500+ from CP.

    Yes, if you do decide on getting a Filter be it Tianya or Lee, go for an adapter ring that will fit your biggest lens dia, the one you will use with the ND/GND filters. The rest can use cheaper step up rings. Good luck
    Photography? It's all in your mind...

  2. #22
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cashmere View Post
    Aaah... I see.. Cos I read somewhere that the colour cast was due to long exposures.
    Well anyway if you dont mind me asking, what do you think of Hitech?
    It is actually about UV/IR light bleeding due to heavy ND.

    Lee's pro glass ND filters are supposed to have some special coating or something to reduce that significantly.

  3. #23
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    2) can the filters of one brand be used on another brand's holder?

    yes and no. some brands such as cokin P system can work with tianya's similiar system. others maybe not.

    3) Are there 3rd party adaptor ring and holder available that can be used to hold the various brands of filters?

    depends. if its a cokin P system, the holder for tianya will work with it. havent worked with any other filters so cannot comment on the rest
    Thickness of tianya's filters are not very consistant. Using some tianya filters are quite a bit thicker and when slotted into Cokin's holder is quite tight. So try first to be sure.

  4. #24
    Member cumzball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by allenleonhart View Post
    1) what are the difference between the filters for each of the brands?

    as mentioned, price and quality

    2) can the filters of one brand be used on another brand's holder?

    yes and no. some brands such as cokin P system can work with tianya's similiar system. others maybe not.

    3) Are there 3rd party adaptor ring and holder available that can be used to hold the various brands of filters?

    depends. if its a cokin P system, the holder for tianya will work with it. havent worked with any other filters so cannot comment on the rest

    4) What would be a recommended brand for someone who's trying out and exploring and not blowing a hole in the pocket?

    tian ya. i bought mine pretty cheap at abt 100 bucks as a kit. 1gnd, 2 graduated colors, 2 nds 4 and 8, and a cpl all from tianya, along with the holder.

    5) what is the estimated cost to get the adaptor ring and holder?

    depends. tianya sells at abt 10 plus i think.

    6) should I be getting the kit set or individually?

    depends. if u dun need stuff like cpl from tianya, why bother getting it as a kit?

    7) any points of consideration that i should take note when getting the ring and holder? or even the filter?

    vignetting, scratching ur filters when using etc.

    and if u really wanna test out and u happen to have a 67mm filter thread lens, i dun mind meeting up with u to let u test out on my tianya. either way i also long time no use, maybe u want i can sell to u too to test out.
    Hey bro,

    How much will you be willing to sell yuor set? PM me.
    Thanks!
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    This thread is relevant to my interest, so thanks to all who have contributed much info here.

    I would like to ask about solutions to correcting this colour-cast issue that is inherent in the budget filter sets (you know which ones ). Could it be counteracted with custom adjustment of the white balance? How about resorting to the use of a IR-cut screw-on filter, like the B+W 486? Or is it only possible to rectify it in PP?

    Cost of Lee filters are really exorbitant, I'm not sure if I'm able to fork out that much at a go. Lucky for those who already own it!

    Last but not least, not sure if this post would be viewed as OT or even a hijack. If it is so, do remove it and I'll start a new one. Thanks!
    Where does the ocean go...

  6. #26
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by ENDorphins View Post
    This thread is relevant to my interest, so thanks to all who have contributed much info here.

    I would like to ask about solutions to correcting this colour-cast issue that is inherent in the budget filter sets (you know which ones ). Could it be counteracted with custom adjustment of the white balance? How about resorting to the use of a IR-cut screw-on filter, like the B+W 486? Or is it only possible to rectify it in PP?

    Cost of Lee filters are really exorbitant, I'm not sure if I'm able to fork out that much at a go. Lucky for those who already own it!

    Last but not least, not sure if this post would be viewed as OT or even a hijack. If it is so, do remove it and I'll start a new one. Thanks!
    Sometimes a WB adjustment might save the day. But you lose quite a bit of color details sometimes. Thing is, if you use heavy ND filters, you usually lose some color details.

    If you stack a IR cut filter, you might lose IQ. I am not sure. You are welcome to try.

    I still can't justify a Lee filter set... no matter how hard I try.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Sometimes a WB adjustment might save the day. But you lose quite a bit of color details sometimes. Thing is, if you use heavy ND filters, you usually lose some color details.

    If you stack a IR cut filter, you might lose IQ. I am not sure. You are welcome to try.

    I still can't justify a Lee filter set... no matter how hard I try.
    I've checked out some flickr discussions regarding such implications. The users posted pics taken with budget high-ND filters, and the colors turned out as a really funky magenta hue.

    Losing IQ via IR-cut filter is something I yet to observe, and not forgetting, the B+W 486 at 77mm is really expensive too. At this rate, I must as well save a little more and get the Lee DSLR starter kit, lol... The great dilemma!!
    Where does the ocean go...

  8. #28

    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by ENDorphins View Post
    I've checked out some flickr discussions regarding such implications. The users posted pics taken with budget high-ND filters, and the colors turned out as a really funky magenta hue.

    Losing IQ via IR-cut filter is something I yet to observe, and not forgetting, the B+W 486 at 77mm is really expensive too. At this rate, I must as well save a little more and get the Lee DSLR starter kit, lol... The great dilemma!!
    As you have mention, budget high-ND filter. Sometimes cost does make a lot of difference.
    B+W did mention on its cataloge that color cast will happens when you uses ND106 unless 486 filter was stack infront.


    For cheaper alternative, you can get a fader-ND or Vari-ND.



    LCW fader ND - >$170
    B+W ND106 - $135 (mass sale)
    B+W 486 - $180 (mass sale)
    LEE DSLR starter kit - >$500
    Individual filter - from $80 - >$250
    Canon|Tamron|Gitzo|Manfrotto|Benro|B+W|Hoya|LCW|LEE|HiT ech|Cokin|TianYa

  9. #29
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by ENDorphins View Post
    I've checked out some flickr discussions regarding such implications. The users posted pics taken with budget high-ND filters, and the colors turned out as a really funky magenta hue.

    Losing IQ via IR-cut filter is something I yet to observe, and not forgetting, the B+W 486 at 77mm is really expensive too. At this rate, I must as well save a little more and get the Lee DSLR starter kit, lol... The great dilemma!!
    Let me illustrate with a picture I capture a while back.

    This is shot with stacking a ND8 and a GND4. There is obvious magenta color cast.


    This is the pic after I did a quick 1 min custom WB in Lightroom. Just sampled a black area, and the software auto corrects the color.


    You have to decide if this is acceptable for you. So far, for me, I find correcting the image in PP works for me. And now, I am shooting less and less with stacked filters. I do max 1 filter at a time.

    FYI, if you stack enough Lee filters, there will be some color cast as well, but a lot less than Cokin or Tianya. Unless for heavier ND filters, you get the expensive Lee pro glass ND filters, which will block out some of the IR.

    edit: pics edited to add watermark, as well as removing undesirable elements in the composition.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 23rd June 2010 at 10:20 AM.

  10. #30
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by dleugene View Post
    As you have mention, budget high-ND filter. Sometimes cost does make a lot of difference.
    B+W did mention on its cataloge that color cast will happens when you uses ND106 unless 486 filter was stack infront.


    For cheaper alternative, you can get a fader-ND or Vari-ND.



    LCW fader ND - >$170
    B+W ND106 - $135 (mass sale)
    B+W 486 - $180 (mass sale)
    LEE DSLR starter kit - >$500
    Individual filter - from $80 - >$250
    Actually I've tried the fader-ND, and it is not something I would recommend. And most of us using slotted filters actually want to use GND filters. With these variable ND filters, it is already very thick, so adding another filter holder is not ideal. And there is also that problem with the cross banding issue once you get past 6 to 8 stops.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Actually I've tried the fader-ND, and it is not something I would recommend. And most of us using slotted filters actually want to use GND filters. With these variable ND filters, it is already very thick, so adding another filter holder is not ideal. And there is also that problem with the cross banding issue once you get past 6 to 8 stops.
    I do agreed with you that fader ND is not suitable for Landscape photography. But it is good accesssory for walkabout and snapshot photography.

    As for cross banding issue, LCW fader-ND happens after 8 stop for tele and 6 stop for WA.
    Canon|Tamron|Gitzo|Manfrotto|Benro|B+W|Hoya|LCW|LEE|HiT ech|Cokin|TianYa

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by dleugene View Post
    As you have mention, budget high-ND filter. Sometimes cost does make a lot of difference.
    B+W did mention on its cataloge that color cast will happens when you uses ND106 unless 486 filter was stack infront.


    For cheaper alternative, you can get a fader-ND or Vari-ND.



    LCW fader ND - >$170
    B+W ND106 - $135 (mass sale)
    B+W 486 - $180 (mass sale)
    LEE DSLR starter kit - >$500
    Individual filter - from $80 - >$250
    I definitely agree that filters of a premium quality do come at a matching premium price range. Seems like Lee filters have got the IR-cut component factored into their construction. Just downloaded the B+W product catalog and read that the 486 does dampen the IR bleeding.

    And 5 minutes prior to seeing this post, I just replied cumzball's pm with an almost similar quote-range for the 2nd last item. The prohibitive price has more or less been confirmed, lol!

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Let me illustrate with a picture I capture a while back.

    This is shot with stacking a ND8 and a GND4. There is obvious magenta color cast.


    This is the pic after I did a quick 1 min custom WB in Lightroom. Just sampled a black area, and the software auto corrects the color.


    You have to decide if this is acceptable for you. So far, for me, I find correcting the image in PP works for me. And now, I am shooting less and less with stacked filters. I do max 1 filter at a time.

    FYI, if you stack enough Lee filters, there will be some color cast as well, but a lot less than Cokin or Tianya. Unless for heavier ND filters, you get the expensive Lee pro glass ND filters, which will block out some of the IR.

    daredevil123, many thanks for sharing those shots!! The 1st one, to an untrained casual eye, would pass off as a really beautiful render of a sunset/rise scene. However, landscape shooters would definitely dismiss it as an el-cheapo-filter induced hue! Heck, such pinkish scenes only happen in anime or another planet..

    2nd-shot wise, I would have to push the question back to you: how close are the corrected colors to the actual sunset scene you saw with your own eyes? If you have worked out a set of compensation values to correct such hues, then I guess you can still cope with your current filter set until finances allow for a better alternative in the near future.

    Agree, stacking is only gonna exacerbate problems. Just one ND4 (or a smaller value) would suffice, since I have browsed lots shots that featured ND8 craziness...

    I've gained more insight on inherent strengths and problems with filters of different brands/quality. Many thanks once again!
    Where does the ocean go...

  13. #33
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by ENDorphins View Post
    Seems like Lee filters have got the IR-cut component factored into their construction.
    I think this only applies to Lee's pro glass filters (the heavier NDs)

    Quote Originally Posted by ENDorphins View Post
    daredevil123, many thanks for sharing those shots!! The 1st one, to an untrained casual eye, would pass off as a really beautiful render of a sunset/rise scene. However, landscape shooters would definitely dismiss it as an el-cheapo-filter induced hue! Heck, such pinkish scenes only happen in anime or another planet..

    2nd-shot wise, I would have to push the question back to you: how close are the corrected colors to the actual sunset scene you saw with your own eyes? If you have worked out a set of compensation values to correct such hues, then I guess you can still cope with your current filter set until finances allow for a better alternative in the near future.

    Agree, stacking is only gonna exacerbate problems. Just one ND4 (or a smaller value) would suffice, since I have browsed lots shots that featured ND8 craziness...

    I've gained more insight on inherent strengths and problems with filters of different brands/quality. Many thanks once again!
    To be fair, some photographers do adjust their pics on purpose to have that purplish hue at times for that artistic effect. It depends a lot on personal taste.

    The 2nd pic is actually quite true to the lighting at the scene at that moment. BTW, it is sunrise, not sunset.

    And yes, the stronger the ND, or the more you stack, there is higher possibility of color cast, or deeper color cast. A lot depends on the light at that point in time. Sometimes I get no color cast with the same combination, sometimes a lot and sometimes it is slight. Hard to explain.
    Last edited by daredevil123; 23rd June 2010 at 12:36 AM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Shall not talk too much about the types of filters as the bros have already covered most of it. For landscape shots, must have filters are:

    Circular Polarizer (CPL). To achieve 'bluer' skies for better constrast. Can be used in the day or evening depending on the lighting conditions. You need to ensure sunlight is about 90 degrees or less to the left or right of the sunlight to max it effect. Overhead or sunglight behind you will not have much effect. Rotate the filter and you can see the difference in the shades of blue.

    Neutral Density (ND). To achieve 'silky' water effect with long exposure. Comes in ND 2, 4, 8 which are the more popular range used. The bigger the ND value, the darker the grey color is. Good for day or early evening as well.

    I found this page sometime which explains in layman terms. http://www.bwvision.com/topics/photography-techniques/. It covers on the use of ND filters and its effect. though its black and white, the fundamentals are the same for color photography.

    Hope this is useful.

  15. #35
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by chocnoodles View Post
    Shall not talk too much about the types of filters as the bros have already covered most of it. For landscape shots, must have filters are:

    Circular Polarizer (CPL). To achieve 'bluer' skies for better constrast. Can be used in the day or evening depending on the lighting conditions. You need to ensure sunlight is about 90 degrees or less to the left or right of the sunlight to max it effect. Overhead or sunglight behind you will not have much effect. Rotate the filter and you can see the difference in the shades of blue.

    Neutral Density (ND). To achieve 'silky' water effect with long exposure. Comes in ND 2, 4, 8 which are the more popular range used. The bigger the ND value, the darker the grey color is. Good for day or early evening as well.

    I found this page sometime which explains in layman terms. http://www.bwvision.com/topics/photography-techniques/. It covers on the use of ND filters and its effect. though its black and white, the fundamentals are the same for color photography.

    HTH

    Hope this is useful.
    Actually, I have not really taken the CPL out of my bag for quite a few months now. Let me share with you why. When you use a UWA lens like many landscape photographers do, your angle of view is so wide that the polarization of light from a CPL will be stronger in certain parts of the frame, and weaker in certain parts of the frame. This will cause parts of the sky to be "bluer" and some parts to be less blue. This effect is known as uneven polarization. In situations like these, CPL is not the filter most landscape photogs go for, but go for GND filters.

    GND filters is also very essential for some of us golden light chasers (sunrise and sunsets). This is because, even when the sun is low, it is still very bright compared to the foreground. The big difference in exposures in different parts of the frame will either cause blown highlights in the sky, or a underexposed/dark foreground. PP is a way to bring up the highlights. But if you do not have multiple bracketed shots, and is working off one exposure, you will lose details either in the blown highlights, or the dark foreground. GND allows us to bring the highlights down several stops, so as to give a more balanced exposure. With the differences in exposure more controlled (difference in exposure around 2 stops is ok in my experience), you will be able to bring up the shadows or tame the highlights better to retain the details.

    Anyway, this is my workflow. Different people shoot differently, and prefer different effects. But GND is a very important and essential tool in my bag. Much more so than the CPL.

    HTH
    Last edited by daredevil123; 23rd June 2010 at 12:47 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Filters and set up

    all of these can be found out with google.

    but anyways.

    1) price, quality, durability, variety.

    2) depends.

    3) yes, cokin p series can interchange with tianya.

    4) tianya filters with cokin holder + ring set up is what i recommend, and what i still use.

    5) depends.

    6) get individual better, kit set has a load of rubbish that you don't need.

    7) yes, build quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by cumzball View Post
    I am considering to buy GND filters for landscape, sunrise and sunset photo taking.
    I have read that i will need an adaptor ring, filter holder and the GND filter.

    There are many brands of filter in the market, like kenko, B+W, LEE, Cookin etc...
    I have a few qns regarding this:

    1) what are the difference between the filters for each of the brands?
    2) can the filters of one brand be used on another brand's holder?
    3) Are there 3rd party adaptor ring and holder available that can be used to hold the various brands of filters?
    4) What would be a recommended brand for someone who's trying out and exploring and not blowing a hole in the pocket?
    5) what is the estimated cost to get the adaptor ring and holder?
    6) should I be getting the kit set or individually?
    7) any points of consideration that i should take note when getting the ring and holder? or even the filter?


    Hope bros out there would be able to advice on the qns above. Am still learning and exploring here... thanks...

  17. #37
    Member cumzball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    all of these can be found out with google.

    but anyways.

    1) price, quality, durability, variety.

    2) depends.

    3) yes, cokin p series can interchange with tianya.

    4) tianya filters with cokin holder + ring set up is what i recommend, and what i still use.

    5) depends.

    6) get individual better, kit set has a load of rubbish that you don't need.

    7) yes, build quality.

    Thanks for the recommendation, LEE filters are abit deep for my pockets so Tianya and cokin will be the choice.
    I do know that cokin filters can b used on tianya holder too, so any reason why you recommend cokin holder + ring with tianya filters? personal preference or some reason behind it?
    Last edited by cumzball; 23rd June 2010 at 08:44 AM.
    Nikon D90 + 18-105mm Kit Lens + Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 VC

  18. #38

    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by cumzball View Post
    Thanks for the recommendation, LEE filters are abit deep for my pockets so Tianya and cokin will be the choice.
    I do know that cokin filters can b used on tianya holder too, so any reason why you recommend cokin holder + ring with tianya filters? personal preference or some reason behind it?
    In comparison between Cokin & Tianya filter holder & adaptor ring. Tianya made of plastic & feels fragile. Cokin made of plastic & metal (adaptor) & feel sturdy.

    As for filter, Tianya is just slighty inferior when compare to Cokin. But it way cheaper then Cokin

    That my 2 cents worth
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  19. #39
    Moderator daredevil123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by cumzball View Post
    Thanks for the recommendation, LEE filters are abit deep for my pockets so Tianya and cokin will be the choice.
    I do know that cokin filters can b used on tianya holder too, so any reason why you recommend cokin holder + ring with tianya filters? personal preference or some reason behind it?
    Lee is expensive... But I am so tempted... seriously considering to sell my entire cokin collection...

    Quote Originally Posted by dleugene View Post
    In comparison between Cokin & Tianya filter holder & adaptor ring. Tianya made of plastic & feels fragile. Cokin made of plastic & metal (adaptor) & feel sturdy.

    As for filter, Tianya is just slighty inferior when compare to Cokin. But it way cheaper then Cokin

    That my 2 cents worth
    Not all tianya filters are good. The ND and GND seems ok, but you have to look at individual pieces. I have seen a lot of variation in different pieces of the same model. Some are uneven. So you have to check when you buy. Other filters like the Tianya CPL for P series holder is just trash.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Numnumball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Filters and set up

    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil123 View Post
    Lee is expensive... But I am so tempted... seriously considering to sell my entire cokin collection...
    Just do it bro~!! Take the plunge and dun look back!
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