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Thread: Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

  1. #1

    Default Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

    Hi everyone,

    I need any advice I can get regarding (as the thread title suggest) the Raynox MSN-202 super macro filter.
    I am relatively a newbie when it comes to macro photography and recently I bought this macro filter....

    To test this filter, I am using a Nikon D200 with either: 105 mm f/2.8 D AF Micro Nikkor (The older version, not the newer VR version) and 50 mm f/1.4 D and 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 G (yeah i know, this is a shitty lens, but it came when I bought my old d70 back in the day..hehe) lenses.

    My problem is, though i'm not sure this is my fault or the filter is just not compatible with the lens, i'm getting an ALL BLURRY VIEW (Can't even see the shape) in the viewfinder.
    This happens with all of the lenses when I am > 1 cm away from the object.
    When I moved my camera to about 4mm away, it is better BUT with a VERY shallow DOF (and I know this is expected of the 4.5-5x zoom magnification filter).
    I read that some people, with their tele lens + filter attached can zoom in or out with this filter. Tried it on the 70-300, but is still the same and useless.

    My question is, I am very very confused as to how people can (in other forums I read) have a shooting distance > 1 cm / better DOF even with the MSN-202?
    My second question, does anyone have any experience with the lower magnification DCR-150 and DCR-250 model?
    How far is the required shooting distance for 150 and 250?
    If I need to get < 5mm from any live insects, i'm sure I wont get any shots as it'll run/fly away when I get closer.

    I prefer to shoot about 3-5cm away from them. Will the DCR-150 or DCR-250 filter attached to the 105mm macro lens or 50mm lens suffise?


    Thank You in advance for your help guys!
    =)


    Cheers.
    Last edited by akhoman; 27th May 2010 at 09:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member loboclerk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

    MSN202 is an overkill and not very frequently used with insects coz u have to go too close. DCR250 will be pretty workable on your 105mm and 50mm, I've used it on 90mm and 180mm. Only heard of others using MSN202 with prosumer cameras.

    For MSN202 I don't have any experience with it, but by attaching a DCR250 to a long lens allows me to have a longer working distance compared to a shorter lens.

    Thin DOF is expected in macro, paper thin if you attach a raynox. Try focusing your lens to infinity and see what your working distance is like?
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

    Focal length with DCR-250 (8 diopter) is 125mm, MSN-202 (25 diopter) should be only 40mm!
    Maybe this link can help.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

    Quote Originally Posted by loboclerk View Post
    MSN202 is an overkill and not very frequently used with insects coz u have to go too close. DCR250 will be pretty workable on your 105mm and 50mm, I've used it on 90mm and 180mm. Only heard of others using MSN202 with prosumer cameras.

    For MSN202 I don't have any experience with it, but by attaching a DCR250 to a long lens allows me to have a longer working distance compared to a shorter lens.

    Thin DOF is expected in macro, paper thin if you attach a raynox. Try focusing your lens to infinity and see what your working distance is like?
    Quote Originally Posted by CamInit View Post
    Focal length with DCR-250 (8 diopter) is 125mm, MSN-202 (25 diopter) should be only 40mm!
    Maybe this link can help.
    hi lobo and CamInit!

    Thanks for your reply

    I did try to set the lens to 300mm...but still no improvement in working distance (strange right?)

    Does 150 give a good close up of insects, when attached to a 105mm micro? or even 70-300?
    I'm concerned about the DOF of 250, i'm afraid that the DOF will be very deep to like msn-202.



    Which one would you recommend, the 150 or 250?
    Oh, what is your average minimal working distance when using raynox 150 and using 250?
    Last edited by akhoman; 28th May 2010 at 01:21 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

    I only used the DCR-250 with 50mm before. Closest working distance is roughly 12cm. Good for some relatively still insects like spiders or worms. Could never get close enough to get a fly (probably it's my lousy skill). If I understand correctly, the working distance is determined by the amount of diopter (regardless what lens it is mounted on) whereas the focal length of your lens determines the magnification. DOF is already very thin with the DCR-250. The focusing ring for my 50mm is "loose" so I had to nudge it gently (instead of pushing) with my fingers to get ideal focus using manual focusing.

    More details can be found in McGill's documentation.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

    First of all, I do not have experience with MSN-202. But from the specs comparing it to the DCR-250, the msn-202 has a diopter of 25 (approx 9x magnification) and the dcr-250 is diopter of 8 (approx 3x magnification). As such, the DOF is really thin than you would expect with the dcr-250.

    I used the DCR-250 with my 50mm f/1.8 prime or my kit lens 18~55mm (set focal length at 55mm). The working distance (distance between subject and lens) can vary from as close as 1 inch to a few inches (may be 3~4 inches as I never check). The mag drops as you move back. I have also used it with with my 100mm f/2.8 macro lens to achieve higher mag shot. I set my lens to manual focus for macro shooting.

    For your case, I would recommend the dcr-250 to go along with your 50mm lens or 105mm macro. Set your aperture to f/18 or higher number to compensate for thin DOF. Use your pop up flash otherwise your subject may turns out darker/under expose as your cam or body blocks the natural light. Use a DIY diffuser (rectangular translucent piece) to hang in front on the dcr-250(not near the flash) to prevent harsh lights on subject.

    For handheld shooting, use shutter speed 1/125 sec and faster speed.

    Hope this info helps. Don't give up. Keep on shooting.
    D810-Tamron 90mm f2.8 Macro |Raynox DCR-250
    David

  7. #7
    Senior Member Numnumball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

    Think u start off with DCR-250 first.. its a overkill straight away jumping into MSN-202
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  8. #8
    Senior Member NovJoe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raynox MSN-202 (Need advice)

    The msn 202 to pair with your 105 micro is very hard to handle unless you are shooting with tripod with Liveview and a very still subject. That is the reason why a lab microscope is always heavy and only fixed focal length with micro focus adjustment.

    To pair with your D200 + 105 micro, the raynox 250 DCR is a very good candidate to help you obtained very high magnification, since your Nikkor 105 micro is a 1:1 lens.

    To shoot subjects that are real tiny, example <3mm size, the focus will still be very shallow on the Raynox 250 DCR, even if the lens is at f/20 to f/32. Now, the question is how to nail the focus when it is so shallow? Answer is simple, through enough practice on micro adjustments, slight distance adjustments, half shutter and correct breath-through method to go with your heatbeat rate, you will be able to gauge when you want to press down the full shutter. This will increase your hit rates of nailing the focus greatly. Thereafter, you will still need to do a 50% to 100% crop to the final shot during PP since the subject that tiny will not be able to fill the frame. As such, you need to compose your shot well during the shoot.

    For me, I have a +3 Hoya close up filter attached to my macro lens before I stack the Raynox 250 DCR which will give me a 4x magnification rate. Even with this rate, I still need to crop my shots for better framing and composition.

    Shots produced with the above setup as below.

    Handheld + 50% crop + resize to 1024 px length.


    Monopod + 5% crop + resize to 1024 px length.

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