D60 or 300D?

[OzOn3]

Hmm... I've currently got a budget of about $1.5k.. Ok, i'm considering between D60 and 300D.. Both second hand that is..

I read that the AF speed of D60 is slow.. but how slow is slow? And also, with the 300D, is there FEC? or can i choose the metering mode? Can i choose the metering mode with D60?

I also read that the 300D now has custom functions, but it's through a hacked firmware..

Basically, the factors that are given me a hard time are:
fec
2nd curtain sync
able to choose diff metering modes
performance, in the sense of response time and such..

I think that's all... Heh.. So with a budget of 1.5k, whta should i get??!!??!

Oh, try not to recommend me other brands.. Cause i own a couple of Canon Lenses already.. heh..

[Klipsch]

1.5K? You wont be able to afford either. You must consider extra cost like bigger CF, lenses, flash etc.

[OzOn3]

I've got a ef 50mm f1.8 and Tamron 90mm f2.8 macro.. There won't be anything else in my list for now. I've got a 430EZ, not that i use it very often now anyway.. The only other item in my list is a 512mb CF.. though i think i can barely get by with my 128mb CF.. so..

[OzOn3]

Oh ya.. Why i'm only considering a DSLR is because i like the idea of how i can review my pictures immediately. And how i can take shots that i will never with my film SLR.. Know, shots that people might think it's a waste of film kinda thing.. So ya

[OzOn3]

anyone??

[Klipsch]

Ahh film convert. Then not so bad. Yeah you are gonna need a bigger card and a new flash gun. Sorry cant advice you on the 2 cameras. Only tried the D60. The AF is ok if given adequate lighting. Low light will have problem.

[OzOn3]

Heh.. Or maybe i should rent a DSLR for one day and see if i'm really in for the "digital revolution".. ahhaa.. hmm..

[mr_jason]

I think a 2nd hand 300D would do very nicely. You can get it for such a steal price now. 2nd hand D60 may not be as good an option because the camera will be about 2+ years old, and also not be covered by any warrenty anymore.

The metering mode in P, Av and Tv on the 300D is evaluative, unless you press the AE lock button, then it becomes partial. For M mode, it will be centre weighted, unless AE is pressed, to get partial. For my use, i find this form of selection of metering more than sufficient.

For FEC, the new hacked firmware will allow you to use the quite much unused 'SET' button to set the FEC, so that will not be a problem. For 2nd curtain sync I think you can only select that from the 420EX (not sure), and definately the 550EX. Not sure of your 430EZ can be used on either D60 or 300D.

In terms of responce time, not much comment. But remember the reviewing zoom limitation of the D60. You can zoom in further on the 300D when reviewing. Build of D60 much more solid though.

Good luck on your decision. Just remember, 2nd hand 300D so cheap now, around $400 discount from new one, so many people selling! Buy buy buy!

[OzOn3]

Hmm.. Interesting..

But eventhough the D60 is old, it still performs reasonably well now right?

Hmm, this is tough =x Haa, maybe i should go rent them cameras and evaluate them..

[ST1100]

Originally Posted by OzOn3 Hmm... I've currently got a budget of about $1.5k.. Ok, i'm considering between D60 and 300D.. Both second hand that is..

Coincidentally, i'm currently also choosing between the two, and maybe throwing in a used D30 for a third choice.

i threw out the D30 option bcoz it's 3 mpix and the price diff is not that much. D30 is going around ~$900, while a used D60 or 300D should be $1.2-1.3k.

i checked out the frame rate and max ISO of all three cams - about the same, except that 300D only does up to 4 frames while D60 goes to 8, IIRC. i used to use a 10D, and rarely hit the top of the 9 frame buffer, but 4 frames might be a bit too few.

300D vs D60, from major pts to minor ones:

- It's new, any used set i buy will be under warranty. Unlike a D60 - if i get a rotten egg, and it conks in 1 month's time, i need to shell out another few hundred. This kinda neutralises the arguement (which i doubt is true) that the D60 has better build quality. (Any shock that trashes a 300D will likely trash a D60/10D.)

- CANNOT meter with 300D. i don't know about hacked firmware, but there are times i need to control the meter - even if partial metering. Letting the camera make the decision doesn't go well with me. One up for the D60.

- The AI-Focus issue. If you're a hardcore center-AF-only-focus-lock-recompose addict (like me), the 300D will drive you mad.

- i have no proof on this, but i believe every generation of CMOS from Canon is improved over the previous one, ie the 300D has a better sensor than 10D, which in turn has a better sensor that the 1Ds, D60 and D30. (You can ignore this point if you're not convinced.) Until the MkII hits the market, the 300D has the best Canon CMOS sensor.

- The 300D has better playback magnification of the two. This is not really impt though - i don't think 300D's magnification is sufficient to see a 100% crop anyway, which is what you really need to determine 'sharp enough'. But still, better is better.

- 300D has remote control, i believe, thrown in 'free'? Unfortunately, it does not have mirror lockup. It's a tie here. (Maybe not - with the D60's MLU, you can still get a cable release for those tripod exposures. No MLU means no MLU; of course, the Russians are working on it - but that potentially voids the warranty - see point above on warranty.)

- The 300D is 645g vs the 855g of the D60. i think 200g is quite significant. The D60 is a 'normal weight' body, the 300D can be considered 'light'. Of course, some people like their camera bodies heavy. i don't. The lighter, the better.

- The 300D is compatible with the EF-S mount. A very minor issue, unless Canon throws another curved ball - 10D MkII with EF-S support and a slew of new cheap EF-S lenses. It's quite possible, actually.

- Resale value. The D60 has more or less stablised it's price. i believe the price of the 300D has a lot more room to, er, 'grow'. Just my guess: the D60 will hold better.

- (This just in) On a recent thread on shutter lag, i discovered to my horror the shutter lag of the 300D was ... well i can't remember, but it's something between 100ms to 200ms. That's *very* slow for an SLR. You will need to 'tune' you trigger finger to the slower lag.



Overall, i'm slightly more inclined to the D60, but it's quite a close fight. Hope this helps.

[OzOn3]

0.0

Your points are quite interesting!! Gah! Though you were inclined towards the D60, your arguements seem to go for 300D! hahah! dang :|

Ah, the scariest thing i read from your post was the shutter lag. Dun really know the sensitivity of "ms", but how does it compared to EOS 300? The film camera.

Of your points, i still dun like the idea of 300D's "auto" metering.. haha..

Eh, is the D60 closely related to the 10D?

[mr_jason]

Originally Posted by ST1100 - The AI-Focus issue. If you're a hardcore center-AF-only-focus-lock-recompose addict (like me), the 300D will drive you mad. - i have no proof on this, but i believe every generation of CMOS from Canon is improved over the previous one, ie the 300D has a better sensor than 10D, which in turn has a better sensor that the 1Ds, D60 and D30. - 300D has remote control, i believe, thrown in 'free'? - The 300D is compatible with the EF-S mount. A very minor issue, unless Canon throws another curved ball - 10D MkII with EF-S support and a slew of new cheap EF-S lenses. It's quite possible, actually. - (This just in) On a recent thread on shutter lag, i discovered to my horror the shutter lag of the 300D was ... well i can't remember, but it's something between 100ms to 200ms. That's *very* slow for an SLR. You will need to 'tune' you trigger finger to the slower lag.

1. Why cannot use centre focus only and then recompose? That's what I've been doing all along, no problem. AI Servo will never kick in if the subject does not move toward you, not when recomposing.

2. 10D and 300D CMOS are exactly the same. This has been stated a few times.

3. 300D remote not free, unfortunately. With remote there will be a 2 sec timee. With cable release, no delay.

4. The EF-S 18-55mm is really an excellent walk around lens. Been using it recently when I just go out jalan jalan, without serious intention to shoot.

5. I agree that shutter lag is rather noticible. Espically for shooting quick moving creatures. Don't know if D60 has this problem also, probably not.

In addition, the mirror slap of the 300D is quite forceful and noticible. The D60's is softer and you feel it less, because of the body also. The body of the 300D is the main disadvantage factor in my opinion, not 'solid' to hold. Nothing to do with colour.

[OzOn3]

Oh ya, i missed out one question: Is 300D able to do mirror Lock up? If cannot, what's the longest exposure time possible?

And also, is D60 able to do mirror lockup?

[imaginary_number]

Originally Posted by OzOn3 Oh ya, i missed out one question: Is 300D able to do mirror Lock up? If cannot, what's the longest exposure time possible? And also, is D60 able to do mirror lockup?

300D doesn't have MLU, D60 yes.

[OzOn3]

MLU is a seperate entity?

eh, MLU = Mirror Lock up unit ar?

[imaginary_number]

Originally Posted by OzOn3 MLU is a seperate entity? eh, MLU = Mirror Lock up unit ar?

Mirror Lock Up.

[ST1100]

Originally Posted by mr_jason 1. Why cannot use centre focus only and then recompose? That's what I've been doing all along, no problem. AI Servo will never kick in if the subject does not move toward you, not when recomposing. 3. 300D remote not free, unfortunately. With remote there will be a 2 sec timee. With cable release, no delay. 4. The EF-S 18-55mm is really an excellent walk around lens. Been using it recently when I just go out jalan jalan, without serious intention to shoot. 5. I agree that shutter lag is rather noticible. Espically for shooting quick moving creatures. Don't know if D60 has this problem also, probably not. In addition, the mirror slap of the 300D is quite forceful and noticible. The D60's is softer and you feel it less, because of the body also. The body of the 300D is the main disadvantage factor in my opinion, not 'solid' to hold. Nothing to do with colour.

1. Ok, it works for you. i've heard from a fren using 300D for weddings that it occasionally kicks in at the least opportune time, like tea ceremony, and every single shot is off-centre. To be fair, i don't have a 300D so it's just an impression. (Anyway, there's always the Russians... )

3. Oh, it's not free? Ok, one more up for the D60.

4. Yep, with the weight of the 300D, this is just about the perfect setup for jalan jalan - light, flexible, high quality images.

5. Shutter lag of 300D vs reputed slow AF of D60 -> which is the worse poison? So hard to decide...

[OzOn3]

Eh, is the AF of D60 that painstakingly slow?? Maybe that will give me the opportunity to practice high speed manual focusing!! Hhaha!

[denniskee]

All canon digital camera can only use ETTL Flash, so far speedlite EX series, sigma 500 super dg, and Metze (mot expensive) .

For comparision between speedlite and sigma, there are lots of posting in the forum.

[OzOn3]

Hmm.. I'm still considering.. But now upon reviewing my budget, i'm might just include D30 and maybe EOS 30/33 .. haha. =x