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Thread: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

  1. #1

    Default Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    hi guys,

    1.)For Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?
    2.)Will providing credits section mentioning the runway organiser enough?
    3.)Do i need permission if i'm selling the photos i took from the runway fashion show?

    In this scenario, it is an open event and nobody including organiser is stopping whomever to take pics.
    Last edited by blurry80; 10th May 2010 at 06:54 PM.
    5DMk2,400D,EOS3 50mm F1.4,28-75 F2.8,GRDIII 28mm F1.9
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by blurry80 View Post
    hi guys,

    1.)For Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?
    2.)Will providing credits section mentioning the runway organiser enough?
    3.)Do i need permission if i'm selling the photos i took from the runway fashion show?

    In this scenario, it is an open event and nobody including organiser is stopping whomever to take pics.

    If it is an organised event, you will need to obtain permission by the organiser.

    If the model is wearing clothing from some vendors, you need their permission.

    You will need a written permission in order to use any pictures for future proof.

    As above, you own the copyright as a creator but does not give you the commercial right to sell the pictures unless the organiser has given you the written permission to do so.

    I hope that helps.

    Hart

  3. #3

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Understood. I keep thinking i had all rights reserved.
    5DMk2,400D,EOS3 50mm F1.4,28-75 F2.8,GRDIII 28mm F1.9
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Basically, if it an organised event, you will definitely need permission. Simple as that.

    If you are taking pictures on the public places (shopping centre not incl) you hold the copyright but the person that appears on the image can stop you from using the pics. However, if they are public figure in public place, there is nothing that can stop you.

    Have a read on IPOS abt this again.

    Hart

  5. #5

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Don't forget bring some ladder also to do that

    It's popular amongst Singaporean photographers

    EOS 1DMarkIV,
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by tongki View Post
    Don't forget bring some ladder also to do that

    It's popular amongst Singaporean photographers

    Will do that the air is fresher up there. Less armpits.
    5DMk2,400D,EOS3 50mm F1.4,28-75 F2.8,GRDIII 28mm F1.9
    www.flickr.com/jenson_goh

  7. #7

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by blurry80 View Post
    hi guys,

    1.)For Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?
    2.)Will providing credits section mentioning the runway organiser enough?
    3.)Do i need permission if i'm selling the photos i took from the runway fashion show?

    In this scenario, it is an open event and nobody including organiser is stopping whomever to take pics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    If it is an organised event, you will need to obtain permission by the organiser.

    If the model is wearing clothing from some vendors, you need their permission.

    You will need a written permission in order to use any pictures for future proof.

    As above, you own the copyright as a creator but does not give you the commercial right to sell the pictures unless the organiser has given you the written permission to do so.

    I hope that helps.

    Hart
    If it's an open event (I presume, for example, a runway show in a shopping centre atrium), I don't see why permission must be obtained. What is the basis for your statement that permission is needed? And for the clothes on the models, similarly, why would permission be needed?

    Public event, with no restrictions placed on the audience -- I can't see how permission is needed.

    If you own the copyright to the photos, and there are no laws or contractual agreements that prevent you from selling the photos, why can't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    If you are taking pictures on the public places (shopping centre not incl) you hold the copyright but the person that appears on the image can stop you from using the pics. However, if they are public figure in public place, there is nothing that can stop you.

    Have a read on IPOS abt this again.

    Hart
    As far as I know, there are no privacy laws in Singapore that a person can rely on to stop you from using his or her picture that you took. As a matter of courtesy and respect for the person though, you may want to get permission.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    read IPOS please.

    If you think you are right... by all mean, do what you like... its your choice...

    Shopping centre is own and manage by a management team... and shopping centre is not a public area... it is still consider as "property". Just like, if you visit someone else house, a person has every reason to not allow you to take pictures. very simple argument and very simple property law. There are different law govern different thing and IPOS is just a guideline.

    Not asking written permission is asking for trouble...

    Similar incident with the music copyright... years and years and years, we all know that you can't use the music without paying if it is play in public... people do it, now they get fine for that because the official decide to take action. Same argument like, eh, but I own the CD... I can do what I like... is it really?

    No action now does not mean it is right and why take risk based on hear say?

    What I am trying to say is, protect yourself... it doesn't concern me if you prefer not to protect yourself...

    Hart
    Last edited by Agetan; 12th May 2010 at 11:39 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by watchthewaves View Post
    As far as I know, there are no privacy laws in Singapore that a person can rely on to stop you from using his or her picture that you took. As a matter of courtesy and respect for the person though, you may want to get permission.
    Really? have you heard of defamation cases?

    I am pretty sure the word "as far as I know" don't hold in court if you sell a picture of someone and that person decide to take an action against you based on defamation... if the basis is strong enough.

    Better be careful with your assumption.

    In real world, you can't assume anything... and i believe in NS, there is a saying... you think, you thought, who confirm?

    Hart

  10. #10

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by blurry80 View Post
    Understood. I keep thinking i had all rights reserved.
    why would you think you have the rights to a photo that is not organised by you?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    read IPOS please.
    Yes, I have but I can't find info there that supports what you stated. Maybe I haven't searched properly. Maybe you can point out where in its website are your following statements supported:
    - That at a public fashion runway show where organiser doesn't stop photographers from shooting, if you take photos need permission, or if you sell the photos need permission.
    - At the same show, need to also get permission from the clothes vendor.
    - Any stranger that you take a photo of on the street has the legal right to stop you from using the photo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Shopping centre is own and manage by a management team... and shopping centre is not a public area... it is still consider as "property". Just like, if you visit someone else house, a person has every reason to not allow you to take pictures. very simple argument and very simple property law. There are different law govern different thing and IPOS is just a guideline.
    True, a shopping centre's management can restrict certain activities, but if you care to re-read the original post, the OP said it was an open event that did not restrict photography, so your example here is irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Similar incident with the music copyright... years and years and years, we all know that you can't use the music without paying if it is play in public... people do it, now they get fine for that because the official decide to take action. Same argument like, eh, but I own the CD... I can do what I like... is it really?
    Actually, your analogy here does not support your statement at all. You can "own" or hold the CD but still not own the copyright in the music on the CD. Just like your client can have prints or softcopies of the photos you took, but you can still hold the copyright and dictate how the client can or cannot use or reproduce the photos. The copyright holder is the one who controls how others can use the work, unless he has some related contractual obligations or the photos were commissioned.

    So if you take photos at a public fashion show together with a whole bunch of other photographers without any restrictions placed on you, why would you be restricted from selling the photos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Really? have you heard of defamation cases?

    I am pretty sure the word "as far as I know" don't hold in court if you sell a picture of someone and that person decide to take an action against you based on defamation... if the basis is strong enough.

    Better be careful with your assumption.

    In real world, you can't assume anything... and i believe in NS, there is a saying... you think, you thought, who confirm?

    Hart
    Yes, I have heard of defamation cases and I can't see how it can be applicable in this context. I wonder though whether you really know what it is? Do you any idea at all whether a stranger has any grounds at all on which to sue you for defamation if you take a photo of him and use it? If not, you shouldn't carry on with these statements.

    You seem to have a good intention to advise forummers here to be careful in what they do, however, some of your statements appear to be without any support or basis and some are just wrong. And I think that is a disservice to the readers, however well-intentioned you are.

    Nothing personal here, just stating things as I see them.

    Peace.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    why would you think you have the rights to a photo that is not organised by you?
    Because he is the photographer so he holds the copyright (commissioned works aside). Unless his rights are restricted by contractual arrangements that he entered into. And there doesn't seem to be any from the facts he provided because he said it was an open event with no photography restrictions.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by tongki View Post
    Don't forget bring some ladder also to do that

    It's popular amongst Singaporean photographers

    Can recommend which brand of ladder good?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    I think i understand the part where i own the copyright.
    Supposedly they didnt stop me from shooting. would i infringe on other laws?
    5DMk2,400D,EOS3 50mm F1.4,28-75 F2.8,GRDIII 28mm F1.9
    www.flickr.com/jenson_goh

  15. #15

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by pokiemon View Post
    why would you think you have the rights to a photo that is not organised by you?
    http://www.ipos.gov.sg/leftNav/cop/O...and+Rights.htm

    Base on this the person who created the work owns the work unless he is commisioned or entered in a contract. In this case a photograph is the work. Since i did not create the garment / apparel the model was wearing i wont infringe on their copyright of the product or apparel. And since i did not use broadcast a work by others or use a work by others i shouldnt be infringing on copyright.

    However there may be other laws that we might have overlooked.
    5DMk2,400D,EOS3 50mm F1.4,28-75 F2.8,GRDIII 28mm F1.9
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    being on a private property means the property owner has the right to STOP you from taking a photo
    if the property owner has allowed you to take photographs then the copyright belongs to you

    property law and copyright law work are two separate things.

    some of the issues here have been discussed in a previous thread with contribution from a lawyer but he doesn't seem to post much anymore..


    Quote Originally Posted by Agetan View Post
    Shopping centre is own and manage by a management team... and shopping centre is not a public area... it is still consider as "property". Just like, if you visit someone else house, a person has every reason to not allow you to take pictures. very simple argument and very simple property law. There are different law govern different thing and IPOS is just a guideline.

    Not asking written permission is asking for trouble...

    Similar incident with the music copyright... years and years and years, we all know that you can't use the music without paying if it is play in public... people do it, now they get fine for that because the official decide to take action. Same argument like, eh, but I own the CD... I can do what I like... is it really?

    No action now does not mean it is right and why take risk based on hear say?

    What I am trying to say is, protect yourself... it doesn't concern me if you prefer not to protect yourself...

    Hart

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by blurry80 View Post
    hi guys,

    1.)For Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?
    2.)Will providing credits section mentioning the runway organiser enough?
    3.)Do i need permission if i'm selling the photos i took from the runway fashion show?

    In this scenario, it is an open event and nobody including organiser is stopping whomever to take pics.
    think Hart and Jing has already answered your question.

    just sum it up.
    the owner of the venue has the right to stop anyone from taking photos, the organizer of the event has right to stop anyone from taking photos. they don't enforce it does not mean they allowing it.

    you can post anything in your site, blog, but you are fully responsible for what you putting in your site, blog.

    you own the rights of the photographs you've created, unless it is commissioned assignment. But you don't own the copyrights of the cloths design, building, or whatever design appear in your photos. by proper channel, no photo buyers will buy photos without proper rights releases come with the photos.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    PS. Not sure about the copyrights issue but better to err on the safe side.

    From what I learnt from law lecture, any place that the public can have free access to without restrictions are considered public places. Restrictions such as exclusive entry to members would qualify. Thus, shopping malls are considered public places. Just to highlight

  19. #19

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by watchthewaves View Post
    Because he is the photographer so he holds the copyright (commissioned works aside). Unless his rights are restricted by contractual arrangements that he entered into. And there doesn't seem to be any from the facts he provided because he said it was an open event with no photography restrictions.
    As mentioned IPOS is providing guideline and nothing too in-depth... so in case you can't find it and want to know more... talk to Lawyer who specialised in IP law.

    My intention is simple, providing some insight and direction and the rest is up to the practitioner... and I do not gain or lose anything if the reader wish to explore more or completely discard my writing...

    I care about photography community as I am part of it but nothing much I can do other than providing information.

    Regards,

    Hart

  20. #20

    Default Re: Runway Fashion shoot. Do i need permission to shoot or post pics on blogs?

    I can only share my views about the permission to shoot thing, for blog it is very subjective and I am not very sure, though I can see where Hart is coming from. But don't take my words for real, its just views.

    If the runway is held in a public place, you need no permission to shoot.

    If its held in a private place but publicly accessible by anyone, eg: an open area in a shopping centre, you do not need permission either, coz there is no expectation of privacy in a publicly accessible location.

    If its held in a private place with restricted access, by way of guards or good old doors, you need permission. Organizers often issue media/press pass to approved photographers, without that, those photogs like a certain 'Jeffri' probably might be escorted to the door by security.

    Permission or not to shoot aside, the next question is after you had shot, how can you use the pictures?

    For instance, if you see a painting, it is an artwork, an intellectual property. If you take a picture of it. Can you sell it? I donno, but I certainly won't try! The designer clothes, the design of the interior of the shopping center, or the design of the runway itself, are those intellectual property? Can you take pictures and sell it? Again I personally won't try!

    I had shot within some buildings/premises and had a few times having security approaching me wanting to know the purpose of my photography. I had also been asked to sign property release forms restricting my usage of the pictures. And yes, this is in Singapore. In buildings and premise where they probably spend millions on the interior designs.

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